Land Pricing Mistake

I set a plot of land for sale and made a serious error on the pricing. Left out one digit on the pricing and less than a min later there were half a dozen players there vying to be the first one to get that super deal on the land before I could correct the price.

It was my mistake, so I'm going to write it off as an educational expense if someone can explain how all of those folks managed to zoom in from nowhere and race each other to buy up the land. There were not that many people in the area at the time so somehow they knew to race there to buy the land at a ridiculously discounted price.

Thanks for any replies.

Land swoopers. Your land is listed on the exchange the *instant* you set it for sale, and there are people sitting out there doing nothing but refreshing the list as often as possible and ready to tp in to take advantage.

A reputable land trader won't take advantqge of this, but unfortunately there are a lot of scumbags who aren't in the least bit ethical who do.

SL should be doing two things about this:

1) Institute a 45 minute delay after setting the land for sale before it shows up in the land listings.

2) Ask anyone who sets their land for sale if they even *want* their land to be listed at all before doing so, and warn them that doing so will make it possible for land swoopers to see the listing and show up to buy even if they already have the buyer they want standing my, or only want to offer it to local residents.

I'm sorry you got burned on this. This sort of thing wasn't possible before they eliminated telehubs and P2P teleportation, but now a simple error like yours can cost you a great deal of money, and LL has yet to do anything to fix it.

Some people play land broker for fun. In my day we had to turn off objects and trees, activate the land owner view, and fly over the grid looking for yellow or green (public) land then, of course, right clicking to check the size and price and finding and buying it before anyone else did.

We had a grand old time racing and ribbing each other. Braddie Pendragon and I became archrivals. I'm told some hero game or other is based on our escapades of dressing in costumes and regaling audiences with great feats of beating each other to punch.

Then came the work which involved contacting adjacent land owners and same sim residents to see if they wanted the land on the cheap before setting it for sale. Ha ha ha public land only cost 1L/sm so selling it for two-four lindens a meter was a tidy profit.

Anyway, I discovered then that there was a growing cadre of serious brokers desperate to make real money. People began to explain that they were being evicted or unable to pay their medical bills because we were swooping in and stealing their income. That may've all just been cut throat sales tactics; but I didn't want to play with people who were so utterly desperate to make real money.

Now the land broker game is only played by people who are desperate to make real money. Some will pleasantly return land that was accidentally released or underpriced. Most will explain that they have expenses and can't possible suffer any loss or display and genuine humanity so you'll just have to pay for your mistake the same way everybody's always made them do So There!

Agreed, having had it happen to me I have made several suggestions to LL via phone and email that they do something to correct this because it is tooo easy to make a mistake on it if you don't buy/sell a lot especially if putting out of a group to an individual. Funny I got an email and replied ...I know they won't do anything to land lurkers that bought it..I just wanted them to fix the system. I got a quick reply......it's been two weeks with no response so a reply I understand..I'm to shut up, chalk it up to a learning experience and as with all thefts on SL land thefts will continue to be supported.

i believe i know of your transaction and in the end wasnt your land given back?

You set a 1024 for $1200, and meant to sell it for $12,000?? *IF* thats your story, I know about the sale. I'm not the purchaser, but I know who purchased.

Thats not land swooping, thats seeing a good deal and going to buy it. You mis-priced... your land WAS for sale, and in the most techincal terms - a legitamate sale. Again, if this is the circumstance I'm thinking, you even thanked teh buyer - to which 5 minutes later you sent a reply saying it was a mistake. That could be considered Sellers Remorse.

And as to Jack Harkers above suggestions about what to do about it?? Neither would work, #1 wont work because people want instant gratification. If I want to sell my land in a hurry, I dont want to wait ANY specific amount of time. and #2 is just ridicilous. FYI people there ALREADY is a warning system in place - its the SALE CONFIRMATION popup... which no one reads.

And Jack... she wasnt burned... she of course forgot to mention that the person who DID buy the land sold it back to her with no profit.

ooooo Pals strikes again! I see you got taken by same "group" as me They are ever so kind when they buy a huge plot of land for 1L and then sell it back at 4L/M....but ya pay less than going rate so they aren't "scamming" you or being mean *rolls eyes*

Actually, no you were not targeted by the easy to blame, easier to say "Land Swoopers". You were correct in your initial assesment. You made a mistake.

The half-dozen people who showed up on your land, because they were diligently checking the PUBLIC SALES LIST, were likely made up of 3 honest land merchants looking for a good deal (maybe you were dumping, leaving SL, moving, who knows?), 1 lucky land searcher and 2 kinda seedy (notice the s, not a w) players.

As to what would have happend, that would be conjecture on my part. I know for a fact though that there are generally 2 likely scenarios. 1) You politely explain the error and your land is returned to you (if not, it was a mistake, your attitutude is rare but refreshing) or 2) You make a big stink, start the conversation with something like "GIVE ME MY LAND BACK THIEF" and you are out of luck.

People seem not to realize that for the small percentage of people who are out there to steal from people, the majority are people looking for good, or GREAT deals. It is more of a hassle for someone to sit around and argue, be abused by IM, have to explain to a Live Helper, whatever, than it is to simply give back the land. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ANOTHER SUPER DEAL around the corner. Nobody needs your 1L 512m plot (or whatever) for a small 2k (again, not in the business so im going by what i've seen) profit.

What nobody seems to realize is a lot of the tension is caused by RUDE PEOPLE. Its the same in most SL businesses, whether it be Land, Clubs, Sales, anything. Being polite, NOT JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS has always found me in good stead. Days where I have lost out, but was still polite, sure they happen. Sure I get pissed off. But, I know that it was nobody else's fault but my own.

For all of the angries out there, even if your feeling like a twit because you messed up, try being nice and reasonable and I would bet that you would be surprised by the results.

A.P

#1 I didn't say anything about a time limit before you can *sell* your land, I suggested a modest 45 minute delay before it gets *listed*. That doesn't stop it from being bought if the buyer is there. It *does* however, keep a dozen swoopers from shwing up if someone makes a mistake throgh mistyping or ignorance, and simply serves to replace the protection that simple distance used to provide before before the move to P2P teleport.

(For instance, setting the land for sale for $L1 to someone else standing there without knowing enough to limit who the buyer is, as a neighbor of mine who was trying to swap land with me once did.)

#2 Why shouldn't people be allowed a choice of listing their land or not? Having the choice not to list would make it easier for people who would prefer that there land go only to people who are actually present in the sim and see that it's listed.

Actually, you're pretty vehement about this whole thing in objecting to people being given these simple protections. Coult it be...just possibly...only speculating here, but...that you have some sort of financial interest in keeping things the way they are?

That, just possible, changes giving users a bit of protection from mistakes might actually cost you some *money*?

Because you know, in that case, some people might thing that your responses were less than objective and that perhaps even have a bit of a *bias* toward letting people make mistakes.

Just wondering here, really.

Or you know, you could realize that people do mistype and click to aprove things, and take a minute to realize their mistake, and that having people swooping in an instant later grap their land may be likely to upset and piss them off, particularly when they weren't expecting it, and people who specalize in doing that sort of thing should expect reactions like that just like IRS agents and Repo Men expect a bit of hostility for what they do.

Just a thought.

No. Not a good thought. There is no excuse for rudeness or ignorance.
A mistake, a problem, a fight can be solved with kindness and politeness. Tact.

"I'm angry so let me yell" is precisely the problem.

A.P

ya sure i buy/sell land thats no secret

you dont understand that a delay in the system isnt the solution. you did mention a delay. Lets say for example I want to quit SL... i dont have a buyer for my land, and I sure dont want to wait 45 minutes for someone to see it in a list.

Waiting 45 minutes will also open back up land scanner objects to create more lag on sims, with people trying to search for land thats being sold, but not in the public list yet.

Giving people the OPTION to have it list or not. OK its not a half-bad idea... but what your not understanding is the general laziness of human beings. Example the current pop up confirmation box when you set something for sale specifically tells you what your doing ("Are you sure you want to sell land for $1 to Anyone?" Well if people actually READ that, there would be a lot less errors. Same goes for a box to click on to have it list. By default, the box would have to be "On" for the economys sake. Well defaulted to on, most users will never click it, as most users never actually read the pop up confirmation window.

Every single suggestion I've ever seen to fix this supposed "problem" isnt a very good one. I'm very open to changing the system, but the suggestions most people come up with are not very good ones. Also, its not a "problem" nor a "bug", its the general human desire to be lazy and assume.

I have the perfect solution. Its called actually READING what your doing. If you screw up and list 65,536sqm for $1, read the pop up box, when it says your selling for $1 hit cancel and readjust your parameters.

FYI I'm not trying to start a 'moral' debate, I'm simply mentioning facts in the land system. A lot of people say "GIMME MAH LAND BACK YOU KNOW IT WAS A MISTAKE!!" Well actually no, we DONT know it was a mistake. Linden Lab dumps land at $1/sqm all the time (small properties, failed auctions, etc). People also dump land for whatever reason (leaving game, reducing tier) so yes, people WILL come buy land when listed below market, and no they dont "know" it was a mistake.

If it was a mistake, then it becomes a moral issue with the giving back of land. But before that point, the land was purchased with legitamate reasons... so dont just instantly be mad that an enterprising business person found a good deal and bought it, after all its the capatalistic way isnt it?

Also, Angelica Puff is correct. A little common sense goes a long way. No one stole your land, your the n00b that made a mistake, accept the responsibility, realize what you did, and explain. Nothing makes me more pissed that some moron claiming I stole his land when I paid $1000 for a 512. I didnt steal, I paid $1000 (the listed price) for it. I closed a sell offer. When people dont listen to reason, or to me explaining what exactly happend, yes I'm 90% less inclined to really care about it.

On the other hand, I bought a 20,000sqm yesterday for L$2000. I bought it and the guy said thanks... then a minute later realized he made an error. He politly explained the error, and I politly explained that I bought the land in accordance with the TOS. He understood that, and I understood his mistake. I instructed him on the proper way to set land, and gave it back to him. Nice manners and being coordial do go a long way. He could have been an ass, and I could have kept the land.

A 5 minute lag would between setting the land and an in-world search *would* help the hapless fools that set their land to L$1 to sell their land to a friend and then wail in dismay as the same group of people all TP into the landing point on top of each other in a mad dash to be the first to confirm the sale.

It's not an issue of 'there's a confirmation dialog!'

I work in support. USERS DO NOT READ WARNINGS.

i still think forcing a delay is not a good idea... people want to sell fast most of the time when property is listed. I also think a delay will force land barons into coming up with a new land scanning script to find the unlisted parcels first, before they get listed.

Its just like weapons... someone creates a shield, then someone creates a bullet to penetrate that shield, and it never ends. Creating a delay someone will write a script to get the advantage.

Possibly a "walkthru" of the land sales would a good idea (step1, step2, step3, etc) then have an option for "advanced mode" where these would show as they currently do. Or the first time you ever sell land, it wont let you until you read instructions. Although I feel that my ideas will probably have no effect either since mistakes still can happen.

Perhaps make the current land confirmation box 8 times bigger with a flashing red menubar?

Set the parcel for sale to yourself at some preposterous price. Then you can change the price as many times as it takes to get it right before you set it for sale to the general public.

Actually NO because that's how my none NOOB bootie got taken by DK's super resourceful buddy who was spoken to POLITELY in beginning however as soon as thier land grab was made it was
/me smirks
/me laughs
/me chuckles at your idiocy
Cause see...it was set to sell to an individual from group ..price was set at 999999999, went and changed to 1 and it reset the land WITHOUT a confirmation box..*own fault for selling 3 hours after an update* however....STILLL....was bugged and no politeness in the world worked...bitter??? Only that LL doesn't think this is a problem worth resolving in a future update and instead I keep getting other wonked out stuff when I'm done 5 hours..like snapshots all I hear is complaints about.

I buy and sell land also and have been on all sides of the situation. "Land swoopers" is an easy and derogatory term for people who buy and sell land in SL, but the fact of the matter is that as Dragon mentioned, there is a popop asking you if you agree to sell your land for "XXX price" to "anyone" and then if you agree, it goes up for public sale. If you agree to something you didn't want, then yes, you made a mistake. Another thing that people don't take into account when they make mistakes like this, is that the buyer could have been caused to raise their tier level substantially by buying the land.

And as Angelica said, as a buyer, it is much easier to give the land back than to be harassed all day, file abuse reports, have signs posted about you and be libeled in public profiles for doing nothing more than buying land that was *legitimately for sale on the public land list*. But it is also impossible to return the land at no profit if for example, buying the land caused me to go up a *large* tier level.

Plenty of land goes in SL for $1L. It happens all the time. I have bought land for $1L and been IM'd later by the seller thanking me for taking it and asking me if I would like to take more of their land for $1L. I appreciate it greatly and thank them profusely.

I have also bought land for a low price and had the seller say "Give me back my land you F****ing C*nt I made a mistake". (For the record, this approach does does not go over well with me).

Sometimes mistakes are made, some buyers will give the land back and some of them won't. But people DO need to be careful when selling land, because the seller is NOT obligated to give the land back in the case of a mistake, and oftentimes is NOT keeping it *just* to make a profit, but because they legitimately bought it, both with thier Linden money and with the good old US dollars they are paying with their tier fees, which are charged if they own that land for even 1 second.

If I made a mistake that caused me to lose a few Lindens, but caused the buyer to tier up in US dollars, I definitely would not expect them to give the land back without some kind of reimbursement to them.

If for some reason (perhaps the purchase did not raise their tier) they were willing to give the land back without additional reimbursement they would have my undying gratitude and a repeat customer for life

Number 1, you always get a confirmation box. Number 2, if the land was set for sale to yourself, then no one else could have bought it for 1$L. So I find this tale somewhat, shall we say, inconsistent with experience.

#1 I said MY mistake for even doing it the same day of an update, #2 it was set to sell to sell BEFORE te price was changed..changing price cleared out who it was set to sale to. #3 I have no vested interest in lying and #4 Expect nothing of the buyer who did sell land back to us for a little ole' 4K on thier 1L investment. BUT that was MY point about it all ....the land shouldn't have reset to ANYONE which makes it an exploit/bug one that LL should LOOK into or at least make some precautions so this isn't such a common problem...however....I do not see this happening anytime soon.

oh SNAP -- snowflakes in the house

and brings a valid point with her... TIER. Ya sure a 512 may not tier you... but that 11,000sqm plot someone sold MAY have. Do you think someone in the $125 tier before purchase, and now in the $195 tier after purchase should lose money because of someone elses mistake? I dont think so.

My favorite example is Walmart, which was once notorious for this. Say you walk into wally-world and buy a 43" LCD tv for $2000. You get home, and realize that you were charged only $200 for the TV. Do you call your walmart and say "Hey guys you screwed up I owe you $1800" I dont think so

But if you were overcharged for that TV, you'd go right back storming into customer service like it was your only mission in life.

No matter peoples opinions about buying and selling of land... no matter the checks and balances in the system... people are human, everyone makes mistakes, and some n00b will sell their land for $1.

I remember Snowflake when she was getting started in this business... she was a catipillar... I gave her little pushes and nudges. Now she's a butterfly and doing well for herself. People, just understand there is business in SL... some more capitalistic than others. Be polite, and remember in the end that virual land is worthless, as is the L$ (the TOS specifies both as not worth the binary 1s and 0s that make it up). If you make a mistake, be man or woman enough to realize it, listen about it, and be polite about it... then maybe, just maybe you can get another chance at it

I nominate this to be the best response to this thread whatsoever.

land doesnt clear the person its set to just by changing price. I dont even know if unchecking it for sale clears the box. If the box is checked, and THEN you set a person, thats no bug.. its already set for sale.

Proper technique is
1) Make sure sell box not checked
2) Set persons name
3) Set price
4) Check sell box

its error proof

the only land "bug" that exists in SL is when you join 2 parcels together that are marked for sale. However i've seen a "hierarchy" agument thats written quite well that makes that not seem a bug either -- however joining land gives you no confirmation box. This is a problem that needs to be addressed, no argument there. If I buy land that I can reasonably assertain in my mind that it was a land-join mistake I give back 100% of the time, granted no ones telling me to go F a tree... then i'll hold it for a day to prove a point then give it back

rofl... spanks

First of all, as someone who was involved in selling a whole sim, I find this idea totally unacceptable to introduce 45 minute lag in advertising land for sale. Straight to bin, no more talks. Anyone who has experience of dealing with sales of large chunks of land does know how do they sometime have to distribute, redistribute sqm, change prices etc with market conditions... and you are saying they d have to wait 45 minutes before a change is listed?

I am not in land business because I enjoy building, and am here for fun, but I did have some experience while i was exploring all possibilites of SL. As for "Swoopers", I think it isnt their fault at all, all they are doing is competing with eachother to get the best deals. The main presumption in all capitalist economy is that everyone is responsible for their own interests and everyone "knows" whats best for them. Whether right or wrong, THAT IS THE PRESUMPTION of capiatalism. A Seller who lists land for sale is presumed to "KNOW" the market before doinf so, knows how sl works, knows whats the average price and the specific price of land in his/her area. These are presumption that they KNOW what they are doing. This is how it is in RL and so is in SL and will always be in any capitalist society. Blaming informed , active and watchful (of their interests) people, is not right by any definition. They are fighting for their interest, you fight for yours. if you are not well informed, and did not do due dilligence before making a business decision of selling or buying ANYTHING, thats your fault, not anyone else.

It is everyone;s responsibility to get educated, know the system they work in, learn the market and make dexcision and stop blaming others.

I wasn't ever involved in buying land from noobs, but I did have experience of selling a whole sim, and that was when I came across swoopers. While redividing and merging my land, the price of a chunk three times bigger remaind same as one piece, and wow! there were so many of people hovering over it before i changed it. I never blamed them, I smiled and realized this was also going on But I cant say it is wrong in any way, all they were doing were racing against eachother, and not against me.

Bottom line, Stop blaming, and get educated, and learn how things work.

Dragon Keen called me a butterfly

*swoon*

i believe i remember that, although i wasnt there myself I heard about it.

well i nominate that post as the second best response (if it wasnt my my own self-conscience i'd nominate it first best )

and snowflake dont let it go to your head it was just a figure of speech kidding

this is the only reason i like downtime of the grid... I miss such good debates when i have something better to do with my time.