Keeping your premium stipend

Um, 4000 montly premiums: $480,000 a year.
Running Lindex at its current rates and %3.5 fees: about $620,500 a year.
Saving the market to make sure the economy stays strong and Lindex continues to be traded on? Probably not priceless, but it's at least $620,000USD of annual income.

I think there's a reason free accounts exist...

Why even bother being a ful member if you dont get basic weekly pay? its so smal anyways. Own land? well i can do without that too if i not going to get a weekly pay.....

I used to have that every morning in Bakersfield, Ca in 1969 at a resturaunt owned by an Oklahoma transplant. I loved it.

the answer is clear.

elimate SINKS.

If someones Linden holdings reaches say $100,000 then $50,000 is converted to $ at the average rate at that time.

or

peoples total reaches $200,000 and if not spent to reduce to $100,000 after 7days its converted to bucks.

just suggestions!

remove the stipend or pass any control to these pathetic people drooling at the prospect of being SL bankers wil kill SL.

there are SL alternatives.

i know my two suggestions are crap but nor more crap than the bamblings from the frantic scare sell sell sell threads and the remove the stipend threads.

its like watching greedy drooling people lerching waiting for their feed... soo sad.

I thought this $L decline and stippend discussion was about the drop in $L value hurting just every-day content sellers and land owners, who are finding it more and more difficult just to be able to pay off the tier $US they owe LL every month?

Usagi

There's a lot of benefits of being a premium account holder.

Like owning land, but just don't think of it as having a 512 parcel, think of the possibility of actually working together with a bunch of friends for a common goal, like... not having a 512 plot, but getting a bunch of said friends and buying half a sim for example, your 512 square meters turn into a lot more, more prim space, more talent, help on the spot, etc... its like magic!

Too bad shes married now. Not that it stops her from what I hear..but you know how rumors are, and I'm 12 hours from that state so I couldn't confrim if I wanted.

The problem is that if you want to get a bunch of friends together and buy half a sim, the tier discount system means it's far more effective to have just one friend pay all the tier and transfer the money to them via PayPal or L$, rather than having all the friends be Premium members.

If you could put tier money into a group instead of sqm, and then the group got tier discount, it'd be much more of an encouragement to go Premium..

You know i always promoto the prim account to people as NEWBIES startout. The explaining to them the plus. But other then owning land what else is there + about it? if there is NO little weekly 500l per week i still don`t understand the + of having it? I own more then some in the game. But I have a backup plan if the weekly pay is gone. I wil stay as a prim account and just start doiong activities on it.
Have wonderday

Hi, Wilhelm! It was good meeting you last night.

I saw you make this point in another thread and wanted to throw this thought out to you and others who make the same argument.

(CJ, I posted some of this in another thread and I realize that this is not quite on topic, so please pardon me for repeating it here)

You have hit on what I think is a major issue, Wilhelm--an issue that is causing much consternation. There is an ongoing debate over whether SL is a game, a platform for business, or both. Depending on which way you view it (I view it as both), the issues that a given resident will care about will differ.

Unlike in the RW where everyone understands that businesses, consumers, and economies exist for a real reason, it is not clear if that is the case in SL. Again, depending on which way you view SL, the issue over economies and money will also differ.

SInce LL has said that they intend for the SL platform to offer real economic value (read this LL blog post: http://secondlife.blogs.com/change/2006/05/announcing_seco.html), perhaps they need to be more forth coming to the residents so that this issue is laid to rest. If LL's main purpose is to offer a compelling game platform, that is fine. If it is to offer a virtual business platform, that is fine also.

Until the majority of residents come to an understanding of what SL is and where LL intends to take it, I think we will continue to debate on a nebulous foundation. We all need to have the same understanding of the SL foundation so as to have any chance of meaningful debate.

Right now, if I place myself in your shoes and look at SL from your standpoint, I can see your points very well.

Um...

Just because you can make something and then sell it does not mean its a viable business.

If your an every-day content seller or landowner who is finding it more hard to pay your fees then you need to change your business to suit the environment , just like the real world some will die some will take over others etc..

its amazing that instead of realising that their products are not good value and or their business model is crap they expext everyone to throw away their stipends so they can continue.

Hi, Carlton and Ariel. Thanks for sharing your concerns. I respect your frustration with the current ramblings over stipends, the value of the Linden, and the Lindex.

Your concerns are valid but I would respectfully ask that you don't assume that all of us on the limit stipends side are greedy FICs with ulterior motives. Whereas I can hardly disagree that some residents fit that bill, many I believe are simply concerned with the health of the economy--they care as much about SL, its residents, and shop owners as you two clearly do.

For instance, I am a newbie in SL, but not in RL. I have been here for a little more than a month. I am setting up a small shop that will sell my designs. I've hired other content creators to do work that I cannot. I have not yet made a single Linden and have never sold any--on the Lindex or any other exchange.

When I started reading the forum postings 5 weeks ago it became clear to me that there were too many people complaining and not enough doing something about it. I did not care about which side someone was on. Instead, I cared about affecting meaningful dialogue to begin the arduous process of offering some substantive options to LL--options that would help improve the long-term health and enjoyment of SL.

I am the one who initiated the volunteer opting out of stipends because in my view it is one of several key issues negatively affecting the economy. I suggest you read some of my posts in that thread--although it has grown to be an awfully long, mind-numbing thread.

Most of us are not asking residents to fork over their stipends involuntarily. We are asking for volunteers. Now, will we get a sufficient number of volunteers to make a direct difference on money supply? Of course not.

But, we are standing by our convictions (unlike others who have called for a total end to stipends but fail to support our cause). I took action on this issue to bring it up for debate. I believe that parties on several sides of the issue (there are more than two sides) are for the most part have meaningful and civil discourse. There are a few on the extreme sides that are fanning the embers, trying to get them to burst into flames. This damages and muddies the process, but that is what happens in RW debates also.

It is my hope and view, as well as some others on the various sides, that our discussions will eventually lead to a handful of acceptable solutions for LL to explore. It will be up to LL to determine which of our ideas fit their conception of SL and fit within their RW business model.

To be fully open and honest (I've also mentioned this in posts in other forum threads), I must add that the RW small business that I own is investigating using the SL platform, or something similar, to offer RW products and services to our clients. We are not looking at SL as an opportunity to take advantage of others in world. Our RW products and services will not be aimed at SL residents directly. Instead, you would have to be one of our RW clients to benefit from our SL projects.

Our company is small and has little investment capital. If we are to implement any RW projects within SL, we need its residents to keep doing what they like to do so that LL stays healthy. We are moving cautiously, hoping that the SL economy will stabilize and mature to the point were we are comfortable with the risk

I hope you two hang around a little longer to see how this turns out. Your input is valuable. I have said this many times now in various forum threads, I do not have to agree with you to get alone. But, I do have to listen to those with opposing viewpoints so that I can learn.

Actually, any lucky Alaska residents out there DO get a stipend from your government, thanks to your oil resources. Do we have any Alaskans around here? If so, what's the oil allowance up to these days?

Um, that's like sayng "just because some restaurant isn't making enough due to huge inflation of the country they are, they expect everyone to throw away their welfare," as if that restaurant's food was the problem, and not the huge influx of money. They made good enough content and provided good enough services to be able to stay afloat for a long time. Is it THEIR fault that the economy around them is coming down? Or is it their content's/services fault?

hiya i'm post jumping because i saw your link in another post. There is more then one kind of player in this game that much is well very obvious. I remember reading that blog awhile back. I guess the problem is though that people have to realize that this cross section of players (or whatever you want to call us lumped together) exists.

those trying to earn some sort of pay be it large or small have to respect that there are lots of people who will not want to pay them real world cash for their item. I think i remember saying a dollar is a dollar and it does add up


I have no problem and have said so with those people wanting to earn some cash from it that they can go out and spend to buy a new gadget for the house or pay the rent (although that's a lot of lindens...), but these people have to be prepared for the way the rest of the player base or other half or whatever does. I build houses and i have managed with some sweating and maybe even a few tears to make a game (its a good game people want to actualy buy it) my prices are much lower then many others. I suspect they are because i am not looking to cash out the lindens just looking at it in world ie: i wanted to "rent an office" well i horde my lindens for that right now because i think it would be cool to have a business office.

I own some land i guess i am a dabbler and am trying a little bit of everything.

I have once and only once cashed out lindens it covered my server fees and that made me very happy, but its not something i struggle to do each month or anything.

Anyhow i know i undercut those trying to earn money and pricing according to the USD value of similar types of object.

prefab houses i think are probably the best example mine are maybe 100 - 150 lindens whereas many others are charging about 300-500 lindens for somethign of comarible size and quality.


Anyhow if those that cash out in an effort to make a profit and set their prices accordingly by the lindex values are undercut by us "amateurs" making stuff for fun and selling it cheaply are prepared for the different point of view then this is all great

I spend about 35 bucks a month on this game i never go above that its my magic number heh, but i am a consumer as well and if i like what i see i will save up my lindens ingame till i can afford it and buy it. It just takes a whole lot longer then using that instand buy button

It's not really a stipend. In Alaska the subsurface mineral rights are held by the state. Part of the oil that flows through the Trans-Alaska Pipeline therefore belongs to the state. It's usually referred to as "royalty" oil. A percentage of the profits from that oil is invested, and a percentage of the investment income is distributed to Alaskans each year. The investment fund (the Permanent Fund) grows as the stock market grows. The yearly distribution (Permanent Fund Check) varies according to the fund's income. This year we're expecting around $1000.

So the money doesn't really come from the government, it is a percentage of the fund's earnings, after balancing for inflation. The Permanent Fund was set up to provide a stable income for the state after the oil supplies are depleted. In a democracy, how do you get the voters to agree to save money for the future? You give them a stake in the proceeds. Giving the residents a yearly check made the Fund very popular. In fact our Legislature has found that Alaskans are very hesitant to spend the proceeds of the Fund, and have always opposed any bill calling on spending the principal of the Fund.

Right now we're seeing a boom in state money from the rise in oil prices so the pressure to spend the Fund's earnings or prinicipal is down. Giving Alaskans a free check every year ($400 to $1100, depending on the year) has been ridiculed as socialism, but it has created an amazing savings account that has nearly universal approval. When the oil runs out in Alaska, we'll have an income from the Permanent Fund. We're a Republican dominated state, both the legislature and governor's mansion are completely dominated by the Republican party. There've been attempts to "raid" the fund, but they've been very very unpopular. Where else in the USA is there a state government that has billions in savings that the people won't let it spend? In a generation or two we'll be using the earnings from the fund to offset the decline in oil revenue. Our kids and grandkids will be very glad that we were "bribed" into saving so much money.

So, our PFD (Permanent Fund Dividend) checks are part of a long range plan to fund the state goverment when the oil runs out. It ain't nothing like the SL stipend.

I was working on the North Slope when the very first oil leases were let and it was very interesting. Some leases went for $1 while the one right next to it would go for $millions. Since I worked for one of the seismic companies mapping the area I understood how the oil companies knew and always wondered how all those $1 leases faired. Did any of those people get rich because the seismic data was wrong?

The leases were put up for bid and went to the highest bidders. The bidders, of course, were all oil companies, and I don't know of any that didn't profit from the North Slope. Of course, not every lease was profitable, but the oil industry didn't lose any money up there.

This is only from distant memory but the $1 bids didn't come from oil companies only the high bids were since their bids were were based on the best available seismic data at the time. We sent the raw data to LA every week with a bonded currier who had the data locked in a special briefcase handcuffed to his wrist. I always thought that was funny because I don't think competing companies could interpert each others raw data.

If a resaurant isnt making enough money due to " whatever reason " they need to change their working practice. if they cant or wont change their pricing, staffing levels , menus etc they will go bust.

Its not about blame regarding the economy.

I'm saying if you want to survive in the economy you have to adapt and not tell people not to have as much cash so you can survive.

So what if the economy was stable for a while now " some " say its not stable I'm saying so what!, the SL economy fluctuates and the business wthin SL must fluctuate with it.

I look at the stipend as the wage of every premium user.

If a user wants more cash they can either buy more lindens or produce goods/services and gain more lindens that way.

if users have more lindens in their pocket but they are not spending maybe the products on offer have become stagnent.

ADAPT.

Dont talk shite telling people when or when not to sell their lindens its the individual business's that have to change to fit in the world not the world to change to fit in with the business.

My point is that some people are making that impossible. Economy keeps going down, people will be forced to raise their prices, and some people on this forum say that since $100l is still $100l to them, they simply won't shop there any more. It's stupid. If businesses HAVE to increase their prices in order to remain in business, and stupid people with fingers in their ears who have no concept of the value of money don't shop there, then businesses will fail. All of them. Period. Regardless of whether they exist in SecondLife or a real world country.
Luckly there are very few stupid people in SecondLife.

Amen

But when they do leave, you will feel it in reduced sales eh???

I don't think that's a stupid viewpoint at all. There are a fair number of content creators who make and sell stuff simply in order to have more money to spend on in-world things. Any tier they have they pay with US$ and just use the earned L$ to improve the quality of the experience they get for that US$. To those people, yes, L$100 is L$100 no matter what the US$ value is.

You have to remember that content creators as a whole are a minority, and of them the ones who cash out their L$ to pay their tier are another level of minority - a highly privileged minority at that.

But... but... but... $L... $USD... Aren't most land owners, especially island owners, tied to the L/USD exchange rate since they depend on their $L sales to help with the tier? I thought the whole economy of SecondLife depended on exchanges between users and LindenLab for land, and in turn between players and content developers for $L to pay for that land? Meaning that LL for land ESD is a fixed cost, the $USD part of the echange being a fixed cost, and the $L needing to adjust to compensate for that fixed cost. So, if someone has $100, that money is only $100 if they were in their own little world completely apart from everything and everyone else, but they exist in the whole of the SL economy, where $100 is loosing its value. I mean, how is what they are saying any different from, say, a German in the 1930s saying that their 100 Deutchmarks are still worth the same to them, and will always be the same to them, especially since they earn and spend their Deutchmarks within Germany, while everyone else's prices increase due to its huge decline in value, with their 100 Deutchmakrs eventually being worth almost nothing? AND on top of that, thoe people screaming that they don't care of the government is printing huge amounts of money, as long as they get their 100 Deutchmarks a week or whatever, because as a citizen they have a right to it.


(p.s. I'm talking about everyone who sells something for $L here, including content, land rentals, and services, nust just content creators).