New Stipend Policy

I'm not sure what else Linden Lab could do. SL has never been a game in the sense that you could go farm some mob for cash to buy goodies.

Stipends are not sustainable. $L inflow each week is not sufficiently offset by $L sinks to maintain a stable economy. Realistically, balancing sinks would have to be so broad as to impact everyone - which is fair, despite those who think content creators or land barons should carry the load. But, if the sinks affect everyone, then what's the point?

IMO Linden Lab is taking the first step in changing people's expectations of LL as the source for $L. My guess is that the other basic accounts will see stipends phased out, then premium accounts will see the same thing as their renewal dates come due.

LL is trying to shift residents towards expecting to get $L by:

1. providing content or services that other residents are willing to pay for
   
2. using their RL earnings to support their SL play
   

All the arguing, all the screaming on all sides isn't going to keep Linden Lab from doing whatever they think has the best chance of stabilizing the economy and keeping Second Life viable.

I don't quite see that happening, neither does it make total sense to me. As we all know, we pay for our land tiers (over the 512sqm premium allowance, of course) separately.

What paying for a premium account does for us is allow us to grab the land and be billed for land tier and to receive LS1000 per week at many times their value. So I think that the stipend for premium accounts is not money for nothing. It's pocket money and a thank you worth a lot less than the premium part of our billing.

That's my own feeling, anyway.

Wendel

L$ inflow/outflow isn't the problem, because there aren't enough L$ sales in the first place for scarcity of the entire currency to become an issue. The problem isn't that there are more L$ than there is comparable US$ because the vast majority of L$ are not exchanged for US$, the problem is simply that there are too many sellers and too few buyers.

There are then two choices: make less sellers or make more buyers. The reason why there are few buyers isn't anything to do with stipends or scarcity, it's because L$ are bad value for money in many people's perception. Taking away stipend won't make that any better, in fact it will make it worse.



Yes. That's why they've just made it much harder for all the newer people to create content. Now, if the had said that the new folks will get no stipend but will not pay for uploads (if they don't contribute to the sources, why should they get hit with the sinks?) that would have been more reasonable..

lolol

stipowned!

best thrashing ever

It's not a matter of money for nothing. It's a matter of can this model be sustained, and the answer from basic economics is no.

Premium account holders DO pay for their $L, however, the $US that they pay goes 100% towards LL's operating expenses. It costs LL nothing to print new $L. Those new weekly $L contribute significantly to making the economy unstable by devaluing the $L... just like when any cash-strapped country decides to print up the solution. Supply grows, value drops, prices rise. The kicker here though is that no on has to buy anything, so the normal offset for devaluation, price increase, has a psychological limit for the buyer.

I'm sure premium folks are right to be cranky, but it doesn't matter... the current model doesn't work. *shrug*

Because clearly, the models of basic economics were developed from the start to allow for an economy with no necessities, unlimited raw materials, and taxes paid in the currency of another country.

Sorry, but your wrong - Prem accounts do not foot the bill - LL do not go any buy currency to pay the stipend, the just magic it out of nowhere.

Prem. accounts pay for a 512 plot of land and the server resources to support it. They also get 2000 a month stipend (currently valued at 6.30USD) which if paid yearly (only 6USD a month) gets you a better deal than you can on the Lindex!!

Now that you know that, tell us again how the 50L weekly basic stipend is flushing the economy down the toilet, and how you expect your life to improve with fewer new players and more thought being put into all in world purchases.

The L$/US$ exchange rate is going the wrong way because some people are raping the economy everymonth to pay their bills!

You're missing the point and confusing two systems. Buyers and sellers exchange $L. LL creates and destroys $L. The two are only related in that the money that LL pours into the economy devalues the $L that is passed back and forth by buyers/sellers. To offset that, LL has to destroy money - which they don't do enough of.

In the mind set that I think LL wants to move towards, if a new content creator wants to create, then they will pay $US 10 of their own RL cash to buy $L to do this. Which is still an amazing bargain for a start up. Is it going to cost more to start up your own business in SL now? Yes. But still not as hard as anywhere else. And the risks if you fail, which most businesses do, are much, much smaller.

Also, if you're doing it for fun, $US 10 buys you a whole lot more fun than you'd get most places.

Linden Labs will do what is in their best interests as will I! Losing my stipend before my year paid premium membership action will cause me to seek legal redress. Call it a hobby if they drop it for my renewal there will be none. I will allow myself to become a basic member but this will not help you. It may stop inflating the Linden but I will not buy the Lindens you acquire in the game and will stop all buying. I will just have to make do on my own skills. I have no obligation to support you!
I don’t think stopping the stipends will help you! If there are no buyers for Lindens they are worthless. You might end up with most of the Lindens but they will have limited to no value!

If they phase out the premium stipends, then I will have to stop paying my premium account and just buy the L straight. At the moment, my disposible income is tied up elsewhere at the moment, so I could literally not afford to buy the L and a premium account at the same time. And by taking away the premium stipend.. well, that leaves the only premium benefit to be the land, which... isn't the greatest benefit by itself.

I could go into my reasons behind this statement, but that is probably best suited to another thread.

Suffice to say, that there would be a few of us dumping our premium accounts because of the choice between having the L or having the land.. (I am building my shop and name, please understand that I don't mind the hard work, but I can only afford so much before the game becomes unviable for ME.)

*sigh* The mixed blessing is that it will slow the number of new accounts in the game either way you look at it. It's a mixed blessing, because while there will be fewer newbies and alt accounts, this means that LL can stabilize the grid and asset system *cough*, instead of being hit with too rapid a growth. The bad side is that there will be fewer new premium accounts, because there won't be as much 'experimental' time as there used to be.

(Sorry if this seems rambling, but I just woke up and.. there isn't enough coffee in the world to wake me up properly.)

The moment SL stops being a viable tool to pay the bills, my gentle newb, is the moment SL is plunged into the sort of stagnant mediocrity that eliminates Linden Lab's only chance at making their walled little garden a profitable business.

Are you insane?? How is putting up a barrier to new people joining the game a good thing? SL has membership turnover like everywhere else and the day it starts to go south is the day SL tanks for good.

If LL wanted to cap the number of new accounts the could do that very quickly and simply, I don't see them putting a quota on the sign up page...

Alt accounts are a separate issue and not to be bundled up with new users.

The customers of the people who make a living in SL evidently don't agree with you. They must be offering valuable content or service, or why pay them $L?

ROFL - You are so going to get held over a barrel.

Have you considered just adding this as a sig file? I think you've made the point in every thread.

As I stated, I expect LL to phase out premium stipends as the renew dates come around. So, you get whatever portion of the year you have already paid for. So FFS get off the dead horse already.

Not too worried about that.

Well my time is not an unlimited raw material.

SL is demonstrating pretty effectively that virtual economies are not immune from many of the same forces as any other type of economy.

Premium accounts pay the real life operating costs of Linden Lab. They pay for the servers, the employees, the buildings, etc.

And I disagree that "the money that LL pours into the economy devalues the L$". First of all, the majority of accounts don't cash it out, so it doesn't affect the LindeX at all. Second, there's also new value (content) pouring into SL all the time, since it can be freely created from nowhere (given time and effort), so the value rises.



You're assuming that everybody who creates on SL does it with the belief that they want to run a business. And that isn't true. The majority of people I've met who are content creators started off creating things just because they wanted them for themselves, and put them on sale just in case anyone else did too. Some did become businesses, but that came later. And as you've said, anyway, most businesses fail. Do we really want a situation where someone can't express their imagination in the world because their business failed, and therefore (because most businesses fail) most people can't do that?



I respectfully disagree. 90% of the "fun" of SL comes from the social context, and thus most of the content in SL has no fun value except in that context. We will have to see what changes happen to new folks' social contexts as a result of the loss of stipend. For all we know, the attitudes of the newer groups will change. When people see pictures in Second Style or whatever, the response won't be "wow, where'd she get that? that's a great combination!"; it'll become "so she's a free-money user, so what", or "so she spent lots of cash, so what".

I have yet to see a convincing argument that (fun you have by spending US$10 in SL) minus (fun you have by spending US$0 in SL) is greater than (fun you have from a US$35 conventional game) divided by 3.5.

No, I'm quite right.

Linden Lab is a business.
Linden Lab has expenses (salaries, server costs, bandwidth, etc)
Basic accounts pay US$0 per month.
Premium accounts pay US$10 and up per month; I can't even fathom what Anshe and Gigas are paying monthly.

Therefore, premium accounts are paying for the bills. Once again:

If everyone had a basic account, Linden Lab and Second Life would cease to exist.

Its that simple. I also see you failed to address why people should get free money for doing nothing in a world where food and shelter aren't necessary? It reeks of a sense of entitlement.

Regards,

-Flip

It is, however, continously produced. And the time of all content creators on SL is continuously produced at a growing rate because there are more of them.



And unless a way can be found to make them immune then they will fail because if being part of a real-life economy was any fun, people wouldn't need to be entertained by virtual world.

What is your source for "the majority of accounts don't cash out."
Basic economics dictates that money created needs to be balanced by money destroyed, with a small mitigating factor for growth. You are adding bananas and bathtubs when you talk about content being a component of this equation.



Actually I have no preconceptions about why people come to SL. I figure the reasons are as many as the people. I was replying to you saying that it would be harder for a new content creator to get started. I said Yes. Would it be nice if that wasn't the case, Yes. There are wants and there is reality. Economics is dictating the reality.



I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. All I've said is that the current model is unsustainable, which LL seems to agree with as they are taking the first steps towards phasing out $L inflows: dwell, basic stipends, etc.

We can spend all our time getting upset, but it's not going to accomplish anything.

I have a finite number of minutes in my day. Many of them are already spoken for. How much time other people has impacts me not at all unless I want to interact with them. There are many other costs associated with content creation also... they've been listed before ranging from software to advertising. Moving on.

Regardless of what LL does, some people will enjoy it and thrive. Others will not. We are already part of a RL economy. There's no going back. Accept and adapt... or do something else. This has always been the bottom line in SL. Linden Lab is god. We can accept and adapt, or do something else.

Yes it's called inflation. And if the majority dont cash out why is there more L$ on the market every day?


you say the majority of people are not interested in business yet all the content creators you know sell things.... I dont think you know what business is then


people who are getting 50 L$ a week stipends are already there, 50 L$ a week isn't much, you know what they do? save for a long time, put together a business of their own or purchase L$


Maybe you should try upgrading your account and find out

Prem. accounts are NOT paying the bills. the bill payers are the tier accounts - totally separate.


Its not an entitlement, its a vital part of a new users learning curve. part of that curve is learning that spending real money on virtual goods is not crazy - that takes a little time to sink in. I am not arguing for free stipends for ever, just that newbies should still get them!