Camping Chairs Good Or Bad?

Valid question. When I was a newbie here, I started with the basic L250 "greeter funds" which even if they stop the weekly stippends would likely continue. You can do quite a bit really with L250. I only spent L10 the first 3 weeks I was here.

However, I earned L5,000 the first 10 days. How?

* Contests
* Dances
* Games
* Raffle balls
* Money giveaways
* Competitions
.... and all other kinds of events where people hand out money just to get folks to attend.

There are lots of ways to earn money on SL. If someone wants a nest-egg to start a business, I don't think it's all that hard to do. That weekly L50 is a problem issue. It's not enough to really benefit the individual, and it puts a significant stress on the economy in general.

There's a whole nuther post about that very issue, discussed in depth.

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Those 'idiots' your customers...they make SL exsist btw.

As youve mastered everything to be mastered in SL and are bored....I suggest you try taking a shot at RL for a while...go stand on your doorstep breath some fresh air...theres a whole REAL world out there for you to master

Oh and either your the worlds slowest writer or some-ones set the payout on the chair your zombied on to 100 X its standard rate of 2-5L$ per 10 mins.

Incase nobody has seen it, LL have put a welcome log in messege along the words of

' Dont spend your life 'camping out' 400L$ only costs $2.00......'

Yeah sure they have their own motive for that but they clearly arent behind the idea..and if they have noticed it they will soner or later take matter into their own hands and remove them some way or another.

Which ever way you look at it...spending your life sat on a chair 12 hours at day as you sleep / work ( even worse if your working...how cheap? buy some L$ its what makes the SL world go round! ) its no more than scrounging, begging, advertising ' Im RL poor' OR ' Im tight fisted and wont buy L$ !'

Ive met friends from other worlds saying " Im not spending a penny on game currency!"
(when they were new)

And then gladly took advantage of me asking for stuff , freebies a bit of money...I actually fell out with one about it.

I have never liked free loaders in RL or any life...and thats how I see this...they are free loading...I also dont like the ppl who jump from money tree to money tree...I find it pathetic in all honesty.

When I was new , sure I picked up all the FREEBIE stuff (not money) but in time I realised most of it was crap anyway...

These chairs...are only good for teens and or RL 'poor' ppl but I know that theres quite comfortably wealthy RL ppl camping on them with their anti logging scripts 18 hours a day making 500 a day, and thats just wrong & greedy.

Would I do it if I was in their shoes? yeah probably. ( with a penalty exp later)

Its easy to judge for ppl already making enough L$ not to use these chairs but if i HAD used them when I was new I would NEVER of got what I have today...which BTW i LOVE...would I rather spend 12 hours AFK or sat in photoshop creating textures and finding whole sims decorated with them?

I know where Id raher be.

Its the creator and those that pay ppl to use them who are to blame.
If you hand free money out in ANY form ppl will exploit it and take it...its human nature to do so in all.

We have a country (UK) filled with benefit scroungers...ppl who arent ill but say they are...ppl who work and claim benefit...its filled with it..we loose billions of pounds by benefit cheaters...this is just a virtual form of the very same thing.

I tried the outfit business.
My first complete avatar (shape+skin+eye) and outfit cost me 10L$.
I already had a JEVN vendor (2000L$), but you can find good vendor for only 0L$.

i spent the 10L$ for a snapshot upload, to show my creation on the vendor.
The outfit is made of free "fabric" texture, with some shape and color modification (ingame, using the appearence menu).

To sell your stuff, you can find (a few) free mall, or ask a friend.
but, if you use only 3 prims (or 1 ?) for your vendor you can rent a shop in a mall for something like 25L$, or less, per week.

I sold some (fully modable) avatar/skin/eye (a cute children) at 500L$
and outfit at 100L$.
Enough to pay many weak of cheap mall, and the 10L$ investment.

Oh and, please, don't tell me i sell freebee because i used free fabric texture. (i think i used the texture in the "library" part of the inventory)



That's why i'm against the basic stipend removal.

Just an after thought, Dont blame the Campers because they are willing to take your free money your so happy to give them simply because you are wanting to attract people to your bit of land.

I mean you are calling campers scroungers. I mean get real your giving out free money to people to earn while they are away from the keyboard.

If i was to stand on the corner of my street with a hand full of notes handing it out to people as they walk past me do you think they are going to refuse? And just because these people take that money off me does that make them scroungers. Who is the bigger idiot, the giver or the taker? Certainly not the taker!!!!

For the most part, the people with an attitude towards the chairs are not the ones providing them. It is not that they are trying to tell others what to do with their own money, it is because they feel that this money comes from LL in the form of Developer Incentive, which is being phased out, and dwell, whose future seems precarious, imo. It is considered that these systems, which were set up as a means to identify and to reward developers of creative and interesting social environments, have been scammed through the use of money giveaways such as the camping chairs. Those receiving the funds are thought to be providing an environment which subtracts from rather than adds to the SL experience.

Further objections to the chairs are that these idle resis are using the resources without any social or creative participation. As SL grows, it's ability to support increasing numbers of simultaneous users is being stressed. The overall performance is degraded as it attempts to do so. Simply speaking, in addition to the lindens, people who are active and involved in SL resent that the limited resources are being being sucked up by inactive users.

If your refering to me, may I suggest you go back to the beggining of the thread and read it?

I dont pay anyone for camping.

Also arent the last few sentences of my last post saying exactly what your trying to 'correct me' on?

Taken From My Last Post.

These chairs...are only good for teens and or RL 'poor' ppl but I know that theres quite comfortably wealthy RL ppl camping on them with their anti logging scripts 18 hours a day making 500 a day, and thats just wrong & greedy.

Would I do it if I was in their shoes? yeah probably. ( with a penalty exp later)

Its easy to judge for ppl already making enough L$ not to use these chairs but if i HAD used them when I was new I would NEVER of got what I have today...which BTW i LOVE...would I rather spend 12 hours AFK or sat in photoshop creating textures and finding whole sims decorated with them?

I know where Id raher be.

Its the creator and those that pay ppl to use them who are to blame.
If you hand free money out in ANY form ppl will exploit it and take it...its human nature to do so in all.

Well, except:

a) It's not an either/or - you could have your AV sat in a chair in background, while doing your textures in Photoshop at the same time. You'd make more L$, too;
b) Not everyone can be talented and even if they could not everyone can succeed.

Did it occur to you that your competition was using a better
Marketing Plan than you? You relied on "Word-Of-Mouth".
They relied on paying eyeballs a few pennies in exchange
for direct advertising which would lead to future sales.
And those sales would recoup the direct marketing costs.


If you ask me, you fell asleep and your competition got the
upper leg on you. Quality isn't everything. Remember BetaMax
from the 80s? Its quality was better than VHS. But VHS had
better marketing and became the defacto standard. Don't
be a sore loser and cry foul. Start using the same weapons
as your enemy and grow.


Learning Lesson: Marketing is just as important as Quality.

Camping chairs are a marketing plan? Pleeease....

It was purely and after thought after reading a lot of forums about camping chairs and the ever decreasing value of the Linden. The fact is that people seem to want to blame the people who use these chairs as the root to the problem. When clearly the root of the problem are the Premium Account Holders who use these chairs to entice people to thier little bit of land to help earn more money. The problem for me is DWELL. Paying people for traffic is to me just handing out free money. Paying people to come boost your numbers is just to me lazy. Get Rid of DWELL and watch the Camping Chairs Disapper. And once people with basic account cant make easy money then most likely they will become premium account holders and start making money the good old fashioned way by earing it rather than having it given to them a silver platter by greedy premium account holders.

Um, why's it so bad to say that? It's just the same as RL stores that offer free samples, or entertainment, or other things that cost them a few cents or so, just in order to get the customers in the door. And the Basic stipend is LL doing the same.

Dwell alone doesn't make back camping chairs. The reason camping chairs are popular is that they get you a slot on the Popular Places list because of the high traffic to your site.



Or maybe they'll quit.

In my observation, most people who earn money as premium account owners were already earning it as basic account holders.

Ok so it's a plan. A dull, unimaginative plan.

And that would be bad because...?

People = customers.
People = dwell potential.
People = audience.
People = publicity/money for LL.
People = being the bottom end of the Pareto curve so you can be the top.
People leaving = bad.

Subtract the people that contribute nothing and the market will adjust itself for the new reality in relatively short order - without having to cut the pie into as small of pieces, the average income will increase across the board for everyone, thus A) more purchases will occour, and/or prices will raise. Dwell potential is going away soon anyhow, probably, so that's a moot point... And even if it doesn't, this gaming is exactly the problem with dwell as it stands, so I'm all for screwing it up any way possible. And the people in question provide no money directly to LL, which means, since LL has to spend money for each person in world, that they are actually taking money from LL.

No, the value of the L$ might go up, but the L$ income of the people at the bottom won't get any higher, and they'll get less L$ for their buck when they buy.



No, because the bigger the population the more land it can support without creating wastelands devoid of human contact. The more land available, the more profit for LL.

Are the number of camping chairs dwindling as DI is being phased out? I can't see myself sitting around in one, but it's obvious that there are plenty that do. Of those people that do, is it so hard to see that they become more familiar with the names of products sold there or of items sold in places that they have never been to? People buy things they see more often than things they don't see. Candy and gum is a better value if bought from the candy aisle yet people routinely pay more for their impulse purchases at the checkout.

Loss leaders are an effective marketing tool and it's not that hard for me to imagine that they'd work in SL, too. The day after Thanksgiving is a major revenue generating day for stores because of the special items sold at a loss in order to get customers into the store. Grocers sell turkeys and hams for pennies a pound not out of their own generosity and compassion for their fellow man but because they will make up the difference on the other items bought for a holiday feast.

I'm surprised that a method for the easy redemption of coupons hasn't been developed.

Not true! If less money is being payed out to the campers, more money will be availible for other things - Everything from trading on lindex at a lower rate (since more is availible) to sponsoring legitimate prizes, contests, etc, as well as spending at other merchants who also have smaller trickle-downs. It's a closed system... The money is always there. It's just a question of distribution.



This is false. Land that isn't being used is still a wasteland, and a drain for LL - And basic accounts don't own land. Population != land owners. Land only equals profits for LL if the land is being owned. If land is unowned, LL can scale back introducing new servers to adjust for the new population growth rate.

Will the owner of that money want to sell it on LindeX at a low rate? We already have people holding out now because of the "devalued" rate. For prizes and contests, money is only available to the winners.



I don't think this happens so much in SL, to be honest. Simply because, if someone is rich, chances are they're good at making stuff, which means probably they won't need to buy from anyone who's worse (could make better themselves) - and if the person they buy from is better than them, probably they're richer too.



Basic accounts fill up land. If there were only 40 basic accounts, SL would only need one club, and none of the land that the clubs are on now would have sold.

Holding out forever leads to people missing out forever. Eventually, they will sell, because they want the money. Slightly less money is better than no money. Most of the people playing Lindex would not do very well playing the stock market.

Whats your point about prizes and contests only going to winners? Sure. Are you saying there are people who can never win a contest? I don't believe that. It's just a question of finding things they are good at.



A lot of my buisness is from other producers. This is what other friends of mine report as well.

Just because a person makes skins, for example, doesn't mean they can make vehicles, or hair, or something. And even if they can, it's a question of convienience verses value - I'll buy stuff I could make myself if the price is low enough that I'd rather pay the price than than spend the time.



It would have sold eventually, and until it did, LL would not have introduced more servers. Growth isn't always a good thing in all cases, and when the availibility of land is at LL's control, they can choose how to do it for maximum profitability. It's not like the blades for the new land ordered themselves and installed themselves and started billing LL for their presense.

If you would have a shred or ethics left you would consider that the awards and dwell systhem was put in place to reward people creating content.
This reward systhem brought out a lot of places wich are fun to visit, and now its played, cheated.

Result, the reward systhem will be chanceled and "Nice places for free" will drop in numbers.

Result, only the rich RL will be able to have it, the average user not able to cough up the RL cash to visit the countryclubs will be closed out.

And all that because some people had to cheat.

And that wasnt marketing btw, it was stealing the momeny from the folks it was intented for using a hole in the systhem.

Comparable to a RL companye merrily poisoning the land arround them because they found a hole in the law making it not illegal.

People die, they safe money by not disposing there poison in a safe way and they earn money.
All perfectly legal, and right, or?

Only as a result of new people coming in.



Sure. However, LL make a profit on tier fees, so the more servers they have, the more profit they make. Therefore, they would like to have more land, and that means having more people to play on it.

Nope
Only if people OWN it they earn.
Free accounts dont pay, cant own land, in other words they are freeloaders of the content creators and land owners in SL as long they dont earn there cash by themself or buy from LindeX, simple as that.

SL runs on RL servers wich take RL cash to buy maintain and keep online, not to count staff for programming and patching wich means ALOT of RL cash needed.

Free accounts playing SL, getting there money form campinchairs in the end are payd by ever PAYING customer, be it an payd account holder or somone investing hours to create content wich makes SL a place people want to go to in the first place.

If there would be an way to keep people on free accounts of my land i would be tempted to use it, for the simple reason that the majority proves to be more trouble than gain and eats only ressource I pay for, the server my land resides on.

I hate freeloaders in RL, and dont see the point to change this in SL.

LL should take 5$ per month for one account (basic) and use the 5$ to buy lindens on the free market, then give the 5$ in Lindens to the account holders.

This way the Linden doesent drops and the people wich work in SL to earn there dough get payd, for the simple reason that Lindens are bought and not made and all the freeloaders stop using up ressources paying customers work for.

And dont tell me somoene who has the time to play SL at all cant cough up 5$ per month, drink one day tea insteat softdrinks and you did your health something good and you have the money for one month SL.

Somoene not able to afford that will not play SL because this person will be VERY busy trying to earn money or get social wellfare.