L$ falling like a BRICK!! L$313 / $1 USD

We understand your point but losing our stipends is going to hurt us! I paid Linden Labs with the understanding the stipend will be paid. I dont want to lose money to make you rich!

Now if Lindens Labs would double my land use to 1024 before tier was due if would be a different case. The point is I do not want to give us something that was paid for with nothing to enrich others!

As the defacto government, it's in LL interest to stabilze their economy. As it currently stands, it would be cheaper to *not* pay for premier accounts, which are paid for in US$, but rather buy $L on the exchange and rent. After all, what good is a premier account stipend if it becomes essentually worthless.

I suppose that LL could opt to be *paid* in $L instead of $US in order to soak up more money. Personally, I think that this is very unlikely and if LL starts selling those $L they've been collecting as transaction fees, that'll make the inflationary pressure even worse.

This *is* a working economy after all. Maybe they should contract Greenspan to come it. I hear that he's free these days. It might help, and make for great publicity.

Well it is not my problem, a little inflated stipend is better than no stipend at all! Here you need this poor boy!

Here's a thought (I'm starting to warm up to this topic ). What's needed in SL are additional sink sources to use $L. SL, in its current state, is fundamentally a "closed" economy where $L can only be bought/sold for US$.

Many SL players also play other online games. What if LL partnered with some other MMOG's to trade $L? That is, what if you could use $L to buy currencies in other games and visa versa (with the companies charging their transaction fees on top of course )?

So what you're saying is that you'd rather get an account with a stipend that requires you to pay *more* for than if you just bought $L on the open market? We're basically to that point now.

Well most people assume that the stipend would simply be cut without regard to how far in advance you have paid up. I've prepaid for a year, part of what I paid for was a stipend. I would be disappointed to see something I prepaid for disappear.

Also, what RSB refuses to acknowledge is that the money supply must increase over time as the population increases. If there was a fixed amount of currency in circulation, or a declining one, the value of the Linden should increase over time, perhaps quite dramatically if the population explodes.

LL must have ways to introduce new money into the system, if all new money sources dry up, we won't have a stable exchange rate. What is apparently wrong is the balance of sinks and sources at the moment. Although honestly it feels pretty close. I hope that this balance isn't messed with again until a few months after dwell disappears.

The supply side will be adversely affected when (if) LL prints money to sell directly to the consumer.

More incredibly obvious things to say! Thanks Jamie for your contribution.

When you look at the LL Economic sheet there's simply far more money being injected into the system than is coming out. Now, most countries don't increase their population iby a factor of 4 in 6 months and that's obviously going to put pressure on the SL economy. Personally, I'd be curious to see if there was any equivalent RL scenario to look at in reference to this. The only thing I can think of is the mass imigration from Europe to North America in the last century and even that wouldn't compare to what been happening in the last few month.

While LL's previous policies allowed SL to grow at a more manageble pace and while we hate to see our $L drop in value, it *is* in the interest of LL to increase the game world population. For that matter, it's also in our long term interest as residents, since new users means new blood, talent and ideas for SL as well as revenue for LL to finance new equipment and new development (such as SL2 ) The new immigrants will also provide new *sinks* to use up those $L being purchased.

What I personally hope is that in the coming months the game economy will be given a change to "breath" and adapt to the influx of new users and naturally come to a balance. It also wouldn't hurt to provide tools to allow new residents to become productive more quickly but that's a topic for a different thread.

... or we could call out the National Guard and put up a big fence to keep them out

Bah. Real money is all at fault for this.

Real people should not get stipends. Nerf tax returns!

Speaking of taxes...

LL *could* start charging *sales tax* on all purchases. Then there's income tax, licenses, fees, crown corporations. Those would *all* provide sinks for those pesky $L

Of course I'd expect good roads, lag free servers, more prims for my land, etc

Well, it's worth looking at Phillip's comments at the last town hall. He pointed out that while the money supply was increasing at 8% a month, the population and the GDP were increasing even faster, something like 20% or more. 8% a month does seem alarming, but then again what if the population of the US was growing at 20% a month? My point is that you can't quite just try to apply RL examples. RL countries just don't grow like this.

The Dwell is currently a very large piece of this currency growth, I think it's prudent to let that change work it's way through the system before other changes are made. This is one reason that LL apparent announcement that they were going to sell Lindens directly was so ill timed and ill conceived.

Why would I pay more money? My Linden would just buy me less.

Remember I do not need to buy anything in second life to play. I have all of the "toys" that are required. I dont need to buy things like real life to life. So with inflation would just have to pay more to get less things that dont I dont need? No Stipend means paying real money for things that I dont require! I get NOTHING to enrich you.

What is so hard for you to understand??

I understand those not with businesses wanting their stipends, and rightly so.

so again I ask, Why can't LL calculate our earnings, if we made 1K , 2K , 3K???? Then they stop the stipend payment for the next week.

Basically this allows those that want a free account or to live off the basic 500 L stipend for the premier accounts they can with no interuption. But for us that make more per week we are removed from the stipends and can make oour own way.

Is it a programing nightmare? Maybe / Maybe not but then at least the Ls coming into the world would go down.

That isn't fair. Everyone with a premium account is entitled to L$500 a week as part of the package, regardless of what some naysayers might think. That makes the stipend like a 'welfare payment' for the 'unemployed' in world - which it isn't.

It's not a privilege, it's a right.

Lewis

Not only is the L$500/wk welfare, but its also Profitable Welfare...
As long as the Market for Linden Dollars remains below L$362 and
Linden Labs keeps charging US$72 for a Premium account, the
L$500/wk over 1-year pays for the US$72 and nets you about a
$20/profit.

According to the contract you signed when you joined it's a right yes. But morally so ?

What use is that money to you besides uploads (which should arguably be free to premium accounts as part of the service they are paying for) ?

All you can do with the money is buy products from other residents. By buying products with those "free" Lindens you are are effectively getting the content created by others without recompensing them as there are no new US$ being exchanged on the Lindex for them .

Do you think that is a right ? As I pointed out in another thread, LL is effectively giving away the content created by residents for free by giving out stipends. They create no content themselves. If it was all meant to be free in the first place there would be no need for currency & stipends.

Actually it's a business contract and the $L500 stipend <b>was</b> an incentive for people to sign up for premium accounts, even if they had no interest in being a land/business owner.

The stipend isn't free, your monthly fee pays for it, although what I pointed out before was that, with inflation it's rapidly becoming a better deal to <b>not</b> buy a premium account, but rather maintain a free account and buy the $L you want on the open market.

Not that LL would probably want you to do that, since once you're a landholder you always seem to need just a *few more prims*, and tier fees are one of their main income sources to fund LL.

Personally, I'm not overly concerned with the inflation rate (yet). Such a large influx of users is going to cause a large ripple effect. Regardless of what the current inflation rate is, so long as it eventually levels out, the market will take care of itself. What would be nice from LL would be some guidance as to where they want the economy and $L to eventually end up. I know that they're stated goal is 1 million users which would triple the current resident population. I'm not even going to guess what that would do to the ecomony. Any Macro-Economics people out there feel free to jump in here. However, I would expect that if they reach that goal end-of-year 2006, they would then take a step back and allow the economy to level out and the $L to adjust.

I have no moral obligation to support you or any other content provider. My contract is with Linden Labs and I directly support the world through direct cash payments! I would play Second Life without content providers and perhaps be better off having to make everthing for myself.

I know a lot of content providers that are not even "premium" members. They make content and then Lindens that they convert into dollars. In any case Linden Labs needs "premium" members a lot more than content providers. We supply them the MONEY to operate. Without us there would be no Second Life.

I have no argument with you generally Ranma, but with the model as it is implemented by LL. I know you can make everything yourself and need no L$ to enjoy SL or have any obligation to any content creator. Me too.

You've demonstrated yourself you don't need L$. So what do you need a stipend for ?

The only use for L$ and the Lindex is to exchange RL money between those who DO want to create and consume content of that nature. It needn't concern you, but for anyone who was encouraged by Linden Labs to come and make content for their world and be paid for it, the economic model employed by LL is currently hurting, or dare I say, exploiting them, though I appreciate we all have a choice as to whether we are here.

It is not "welfare" and it is part of the contract with Linden Labs. I know now that the TOS says different but wonder what a court of law would say? Remember where Linden Labs is located and what type of courts are located there. I would not call San Francisco the hot bed of the right wing in America!

Big deal we make "money" from our premium accounts. Wow! $20 American dollars what a windfall! Remember I pay tier as well! Are you even a "premium" member? How does yor actions provide CASH to support Linden Labs and the net?

You must remember I have a real job in RL that pays me real money! I dont have to work in SL to make a few Lindens to put provide me with some pocket money. I work for the Best Firm in the entire world!

I paid for it and losing it would amount to paying more money for Second Life. Why should the premium members be expected to take on the burden of saving the Linden?



I buy content from time to time and use part of the money to rent a small space for my "photo" gallery. It is an essay of my SL experience.

Now if Linden Labs would make an offer to compensate the "premium" member. Lets see 52 weeks times 500 = L$15,600. Using 300 Lindens to the dollar that comes out to $52 American Dollars. Tier on an additional 512 sq meters is $60 American. I would call it a fair deal if the stipends would be drop to compensate premium members by changing the allowed land use to 1024 sq meters.



The basic members would of course be out of luck but they don’t have to pay to log on unlike other services.

I do respect your position, but as you've now admitted to buying some things, which presumably their creator expressly did not intend to be free, you are part of a problem LL have created. LL have effectively given away those items to you by giving you stipend rather than have you exchange US$ for them on the Lindex. Presumably those things do enrich your SL or you wouldn't have bought them, they are a small part of the reason you are here.

As for your gallery space, now that is something LL could more ethically give you for free, since it amounts to land, the one commodity in SL they themselves create.

This is something that many people seem to miss when debating stipends and such. Linden Labs, unlike other MMOG's, doesn't produce the content that the subscribers of SL use. Other residents do. The US$ paid out by subscribers goes to LL not to the SL content providers. Regardless of where the content content comes from, the creator of that content wants, and should, be compensated. If a creator felt that they couldn't make enough $L's in game to justify their time and effort, why should they bother and if that became the case, SL would become a very empty place very quickly.

Personally, I don't have a SL business to make a RL income. I do it for the fun of it (it is a game after all), to make enough to cover my LL expenses and have some $L to play around with, without having to haul out my CC. For others, SL *is* their full-time job and they're the 1% creating the bulk of the content for the rest of us to enjoy. Without them, SL would fold very quickly.

Now nobody is required to buy from them. After all, as Ranma pointed out, you could create your own content and it *is* fun to use the in-game tools. However, I don't know of anyone, other than Ranma, who is a animation/graphics/modeler/scripting/business expert. The rest of us specialize in what we're best at and trade for what we're not or we simply buy what we want with our RL income.