Is the end of stipends nearing ?

Well, I may be a dumb noob - but if I were a land baron, I would charge folks in $ and not worry about the value of the $L. Just like LL does! Just like my good ole German commie sim does! Hmm, maybe I should take some of my RL money and become a land baron too!!!!!! Then I, too, can continously fret over the value of the Linden.

As to the rest, its a matter of perception. The land barons just see $$$$. Others see it a huge meat market. Some of us see SL as a new world; to learn new skills, to meet new people, to learn about others way of thinking.

To each their own - but don't force your way of thinking on to the rest of us.

LL need to first treat Stipend as standing buy orders on the LindeX, then if the reduction of money supply is limiting the growth of the economy, i.e. $L value is getting too strong verse USD, print new $L.

This way preimum members continue to get their stipends and the economy could benefit from a more meaningful money supply.

Someone from LL would need to be the FEDs in this case and decide at what rate should new $L be supplied.

Major issue is LL would have reduced revenue in the short run as they buy $L from Lindex, on the other hand, if they are serious about having SL as a platform instead of a game, they need to manage it as such.

The LindenX


Does that answer your question? If people want money, they can:


a) Work for somebody to acquire it
b) Buy it from other users on LindenX
c) Live like poor people, beg for it.

Yeah, it's one step down from being a champagne socialist.

I couldn't have said it better myself... Don't tell me you
demand a Linden Dollar Welfare Check every month at the
expense of the economy and business owner's wallets
and I won't tell you how to think.

Lindex, n00b.

I don't have supporters, I'm not a leader of anything. It just happens to be that I'm not afraid to say what a lot of people are thinking.

There are a lot of people - in fact probably the vast majority of players - who don't give two hoots about making a living off of a computer game, and would rather just be here for the fun of it. Unfortunately, that is restricted by those who only have their own interests in mind.

You can call me William Wallace all you like...

“Aye, sell and you may win, buy, and you'll live... at least for a while. And, sitting in front of your monitors, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the profit, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell Linden Labs that they may take our prims, but they'll never take... OUR STIPENDS!”

Lewis

Good point. I think many problems with SL are caused by the fact the LL hasn't decided if this is a game or a platform.

I believe you. It's just that in most of your post you claim to speak for a "lot of people."

So I just immediately presumed you to be the leader of something.

Forgive me if I am mistaken.

Let me explain this to you in English -

I don't receive a Linden Dollar Welfare Check. I receive a stipend as part of the benefits I receive via my premium membership.

I know how to think and I certainly wouldn't let you do it for me as you don't seem to be able to do it for yourself.

It is funny how you use misdirection, your tired tirades, when you can't refute a common sense response to your whining.

I am a business owner in SL, and the stipends don't hurt me a bit. In fact, the issue is not the level of cash moving into the economy, it is the lack of cash coming out. And for the premium accounts... I would not liken stipends to welfare, those L$ are bought and paid for.

At least LL has stated that they will start selling L$ if they become too expensive. That makes me smile. It makes me smile to think that those who have been flooding the market to drop the value of the L$ so they could buy them all with hopes the stipends would be removed and they could make a rediculous profit won't actually make the profit they had hoped.

The only benefit that will come from the removal of stipends will be the wealthy will stop whining about how much more wealthy they could be.

Okey, and I'll explain it in French...


La fin de traitements est-il près de ?

Peut-être si, peut-être no.

Personne sait exactement sauf le Lindens.

ALSO


The environment of SL is changing--and I believe for the better. The reality is that more virtual and RL businesses are exploring the SL platform. People who come to second life to explore business opportunities have just as much right to work within SL as people who come solely to role play, game, and socialize.

LL does not intend to host SL as a virtual world without RW economic value. It is clear in many of their communications that SL is not just a game. It wants to enable the creation of "real economic value" while maintaining the culture (social, economic, creative, etc.). Here's a recent LL Blog thread that illustrates this point: http://secondlife.blogs.com/change/2006/05/announcing_seco.html?commenter=



I hope you stay active in SL. The more cultural diversity we have (social, economic, creative, etc.) the healthier SL will become.


I do not intend to single you out here. I've seen the term "land baron" used throughout the forum by many people. The term is more times than not used in a derisive manner. When it is used in such a way, it does not add any value to the discussion and in fact serves to weaken the SL culture.

The term large land owner or real estate developer would suffice. I am neither, nor do I intend to be, but I do care about the culture of the SL environment.

Whether a person believes businesses should operate within SL or not, it is best to show a modicum of civility in-world and in RL on these forums.

Salzie, to your defense, I also realize that you are being attacked on this post which also does nothing to further the discussion.

NOW.....back to topic.

I was certainly happy to learn that my premium account would basically be subsidized and then some, but it had nothing to do with me signing up for a premium account. Although it would be nice to have even bigger stipends--hey, I like free money--I would much rather have a healthier, balanced market.

So, I believe it is in the best interest of the economy to phase out stipends.

You have to be crazy to say end the stipends. I would bet you will see a lot of people leave SL both preimum members and basic members if the stipends are taken away. I don't want to hear about entertain costs. I am averaging over $100.00 dollars a month I buy off the LindenX plus I use my preimum stipend allowance to help pay my rent. If the weekend stipends end I will have to leave also. Like I have said before, this is getting to be nothing more than a rich persons game. All I hope is they do not take away the monthy stipends which by the way was in the contract for the preimum membership agreement.

That's not a problem - I have broad shoulders. It's hard to have a decent exchange of ideas in the forums when some just shout their same tired messages over and over, in hopes of quieting dissenting voices.

I just think that the business types (see - I've taken your comment under advisement) need to realize that not everyone is here to make money. If this turns into a economic engine for RL business ventures, e.g. commercialization, many will leave and you will loose what makes SL special.

I think that LL needs to make a definitive statement as to whether they consider this to be a game or a platform, so everyone is on the same wavelength and can decide how to proceed in order to get what they wish to get out of SL.

But that's the reason why stipends are necessary: because if "real economic value" is being created, then the money supply must keep pace with the added value for the value of money to remain the same.

The stipend is the money that gets added to SL each week to keep the economy balanced with the amount of new content that got created that week.

There's numerous other reasons for L$ decline which aren't to do with stipend. Did you know that in the real world, most currency markets are government regulated to some degree? A free currency market is an anomaly, not "as in the real world". No real world market would just allow individuals to cash out at whatever rate they wanted. If they did every time someone (let's say) came back to the US from their UK holiday, the rate would drop a little bit, because now they're back the UKP they're holding no longer has any value to them and as an individual they care more about getting back some US$ than maintaining the exchange rate. If it happened that ten thousand people came back at once and changed their money, the US$:UKP rate could fall by UKP100 because everyone undercut each other by a penny.



Real estate developers would need to be a bit worried if stipend went, I think.

If stipend went, land becomes the only reason to go Premium.

Land developers can easily undercut LL on smaller land plots, which would mean LL wasn't getting any money except by selling land at the maximum discount rate.

Since SL isn't profitable, that maximum discount rate isn't enough to pay back LL's costs.

Meaning: if stipend goes, tier discount could be next.

I wonder how many "anti-stipend" would freak if THAT happened.

They already have.

Officially, per LL, SL is a platform.

Really? Where did they say that? They need to convey that to the masses.

This is widely known and not in dispute.

I am so lazy when it comes to searching for things, but let me see if I can find it for you.

Economies are very complex and difficult to understand--even virtual ones. LL has a real challenge to figure out how best to balance economic interests. Whatever decision they make, some people will be alienated.

I believe that stipends should be phased out but certainly would not fault LL if they decided against it. As you point out, George, LL needs to be careful not to drive away too many residents.

Whereas the right to a stipend is guaranteed by contract, contracts can and do change all the time. It would be easy for LL to change the TOS to state that all premium account renewals will no longer receive a stipend. This would be perfectly legal. Your contract is for a specified period of time. For most, it is one month; for others it is a year. There are a few that have lifetime memberships and I have no idea what those terms state as far as contractual changes.

No the end is not near. The value of the Lindex has been determined by all of the sellers. How much do we need to take away?

If stipends are ended, and new members continue to sign up soon there will be a $L shortage and that is just as bad for the economy as too many $L. If anything I think they may be reduced.

I think in general, LL needs to be much more clear on what they expect SL to be, because many people come here with the perception that SL is a game, a place to have fun, and a place to explore. When LL takes the business side of the "platform" then the gamers are left hanging...and that has been happening a lot lately.

I still say the problem is the people trying to sell their $L fast. I think the new lindex change will be great because then the business people can see what people are willing to pay for $L rather than what they want them to pay for it.

Please stop making changes for a couple years and just let it ride and see the natural flow of the economy. So it's down now, it will come back eventually.

This statement assumes "new members" actually become "active members".
Of the 200,000+ members, only about 20l-30k are active. Which means that
it will take a "loooong" time before new players suck up the available money
supply and cause deflation...