The Once and Future Linden Dollar

By your own definition - it's not welfare.

What are the 'needs' of SL? unlike a Everquest we have no 'hit points' to live nor 'experience points' to increase skills, no armor needed to protect our personages - unlike TSO we don't have to eat, sleep, or go to the bathroom to survive.

Pray tell - where are the NEEDS - for it to be welfare we must be people in 'need'.

So... where are they?


The only thing CLOSE to a 'need' would be land - but you don't 'need' it as you can use a sandbox to build should you wish to.. A business can rent in a mall - or use any of the webvendors...


Show me the need if it's welfare.

Can you?

Or will you overlook this with another of your priceless 'well I'm smart so it's right' posts?

And while your at it - show why it's destroying the L$ market - you've sort of shifted your original argument to 'its welfare' after it was riddled with holes.. but I'd still like to see how you back that one up before you shift yet again.

I don't get any free money. I pay for it as part of my premium.

And those who do not believe in Nature's Harmonious FOUR-CORNERED TIME CUBE have been EDUCATED STUPID by the False Word-God!

Sorry Siggy, your assessment is incorrect. As with the rest
of your postings. Sorry to dash your dreams. But it does sound like
there is a ground swell of opposition out there to your postings.
Not surprise, considering your inability to understand basic issues.

Now where was I? Yes, once again explaining concepts which
are beyond some people's ability to understand. Only to be assaulted
with childish rants from a 14 year old. Shouldn't you be in 9th Grade
Algebra right now Siggy? You shouldn't play hooky, you are only
hurting yourself.

You sound like a broken record.....

Ironically yours was post 2.

That is correct. Making sure wrong information isn't
skewed by lack luster researchers and their motives to
keep a welfare state running. Which only harms everybody.

LL isn't a welfare state to premiums. We pay for our stipends. Get over your own proganda.

edit:



That does tend to happen when I'm right and the propogandist keeps ranting.

That would be: Propaganda (not: proganda)


Now back to school young one before you are unable to
pay for anything.

Actually it was a totally irrelevant post - the one that the person you replied to said 'derailed the thread'

Jopsy's post had nothing to do with what you said...

Which is why its funny that you agree with him.

stooping to insults now? Sure sign you've lost the debate..of couse calling us welfare addicts and the stipend welfare is an insult too..to us PAYING premium members. So I guess all your debates ar elosing..

I agree Jonas... You and your backup Alt Siggy need
to stop while you are ahead, before I claim victory.

You're counting the L$ that are at 278 already. I don't, because buying all the L$ that are just above the 278 rate would effectively bring the rate to 278. Hope that makes sense.

Can we exchange these 'credits' directly through LL to get our 500 a week stipend? if not I would downgrade..as would many noncontent builders.. becuase a large portion of SL is consumers and not builders. The credits wouldn't do a consumer a lick of good.

If Siggy was my alt I wouldn't have anythign to worry about except freebies.

You can't claim victory. You have no data. I do. Your claims are ludicrious. Mine aren't.

Want the Data? Pay Up: http://2327104.e-gold.com
The Cost is 2 Ounces of Gold and You will see..

And believe me, if you hold more than a few thousand
dollars of stuff in SL, you'll be selling if you had this information.

*scratches head* gosh i cant imagin why people think thst the only thing about the economy you care about is how to make more money for yourself. Also cant figure out why the lindens havent taken action to move foward with your ideas.


I think we can all agree that we all wish the economy would work in ways to fill our pockets better. unfortunally because someone wants more money really isnt grounds to revamp the economy structure

First, I must apologize to the readers of this thread. I stated that I would not stoop to making low life comments, however; I just have one question for RBD. I did not think they allowed members of the teen (or should I say pre-teen) grid to post comments in the regular SL Forums.

Say what you may about me...It really doesn't matter. If I can make a couple hundred g's a year pushing papers and signing time sheets it makes me happy.....lol, gives me that much more to spend in SL buying lindens.....lol

I see you also have a very closed mind, so no matter what everyone tells you in here will just go into one ear and out the other...

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Second Life Does Not Have Welfare!

So, let me get this straight.

"I think the sky is falling, and I have the data to show it... but you have to pay me money."

Nice work, if you can get it.

1-
depends on the value of content created by the residents, the "savings" rate, and if there's a meaningful way to move value out of sl.

2-
i don't grant that an upload credit system will stabilze the l$ as the volumes being traded (millions of l$) is probably considerably more than is being uploaded.

also, it's really really hard to make something non-transferrable in practice.

Look! Look! It took two pages, but people are actually responding to the questions



1. I think that, like gold in RL economy, 'upload rights' are no longer directly backing current L$ values. The value of the L$ is no longer backed by anything. So transferring the upload service to another token is not going to influence it, other than removing the sink upload costs provide.
Stabilization of L$ needs to be performed by the right amount of sinks counter-balancing the printing of L$. Except for uploads, there are several other sinks nowadays. When one is removed, another needs to become bigger or less L$ need to be introduced to the system. So this means that to keep the same balance, stuff like group creation fees, classifieds listings etc. need to be more expensive, or stipends need to be lowered.

2. Concerning upload tokens.
- When the amount is limited and non transferrable, it will be 'gamed'. This means that people owning more upload tokens than needed, will offer upload services for L$. Creating a separate artificial industry. This could be an interesting development in itself, basically providing the 'mcJobs' people asked for in the past, as content creators will now employ uploaders. But it's probably not what was intended in the first place.
As a consequence, I think any mechanisms to control the upload tokens will fail, the moment that they, or the service they provide are monetarized.

I don't pay extortion money for information I can't trust ReserveJoke. The way you pinch pennies leads me to believe that you wouldn't spend 100$ on info..so no..no trust there.

The stipend is part of the value proposition that Linden Labs makes to the premium players.

I pay for the stipend, it's mine. If LL eliminates the stipend alot of folks would drop premium accounts and I am one of them.

Jonas- My point is more, if Linden Labs has every right to bestow whatever rate of 'upload credits' they feel they can back. If they're serious about having the L$ treated as a more solid currency, it would probably be wise to stop using it as the medium to throttle uploads.

Sure, have a grandfather clause for historic accounts that want to stick to the 'contractually' obligation of L$ stipends... and some incentive like extra upload credits or whatever to opt to waive the grandfather clause to keep the number of players using the grandfather clause small enough that reclaimed L$'s from expired players would cover that payout.

The issue of this thread is not whether stipends are 'welfare', nor is whether stipends are at fault for the alleged 'buyers market'.

The issue: is it time to split off the original pupose for the Linden Dollar so it can stand alone without tampering for 'ineffable reasons' by Linden Labs... and what would the result be one we actually want?

You're against it on the basis that LL is obligated to fullfill the terms of your membership charter. =)


Excellent point. I probably say the answer would be no. Non-transferable means non-transferable. I suppose if you wanted to sell the uploads back to Linden Labs, it would cost them US$ to buy Lindens off the market for you... or we're back to the same 'unregulated minting of excess money' complaint. Considering much of the population might see it your way... if Linden Labs gets sufficient revenue from brokering L$'s sales on the LindeX to justify the shift in player base, it might not be a problem.



Wicked self-parody or oblivious self-slam. Rather funny in either case.
Now quit hijacking my thread


True.. the obvious way to 'game' this system would be to have multiple alts, but hopefully the incentives would make it more empowering to have one alt with a higher 'upload credit' than several with smaller upload credits. Additionally, someone could hire themselves out to upload content for other players..... but that requires they exchange the content with each other through means outside of SecondLife, and also would grant unrestricted access to the content to the person hired to upload it. Hrm.

Gack, the little hand is on the... I'm late.

What if the Lindens use the USD we give them each month to buy the L$ from other players on the market and transfer it to us instead of "printing" new money. By that, less money will be put into the economy (except the basic account stipends) and the price for L$ will drop, because the demand for money will increase.