Lindex Could Possibly Close in v 1.8: LL might reverse position on Currency trading

ZOMG linden lab payed out some extra L$ dwell points from their mint. *cries*


what is it about, really? is it about winning SL? i have no idea what it's about.



yes. you are jealous of me. me and my lack of hub land and zero compensation.


linden lab has never changed the goal post before where it harmed anyone groups LL established infrastructurally imposed position. if tomorrow the city sim owners suddenly lost double prim count on their land they would really be sad about the 40-60 L$/m2 they paid for that land. again, legally LL wouldn't owe them anything, but out of fairness, might decide compensate them by minting them some extra dwell bonus. and that would be a good gesture.


i'm just trying to catch up to your post count for useless babble.

Jau-Jau stop trolling the forums. You're a good peep, it's just that sometimes you need a hug. Put on your firechick outfit and we'll cyber

I am not doing anything except expressing my own opinion on the matter, which is that I don't think anyone deserves compensation for changes in SL. I'm not starting polls and going on some rampage and attacking people who disagree with me, I expressed an opinion. Your's is different, congratulations!

There are no "victims" here at all, that is the point. If you spent 40k for a 1024m piece of land, oh well. When land was scarce, people paid a hell of a lot for land - 20-30/m often times. The same land is now $5-10/m because land is plentiful. Should those people be compensated for Linden Lab's choice to release more land? It's the whole attitude of entitlement that pisses me off. The land market is volatile. Hell, Linden Lab does not compensate you when their shitty system deletes half your fucking inventory. What about the poor telehub mini-land barons with no talent? We better hurry up and compensate them!

In the end, I don't even want them to take the telehubs away. I think they can coexist fine, with the P2P concept. I won't mourn their loss, however - and the fact that the concerns of a small group of landholders has held up implementing P2P for as long as it has for us all is enough to make me not feel any sympathy for these poor "victims".

If Linden Lab is going to compensate them with some silly dwell thing, fine. I am not campaigning to take it away, however ill-deserved I think it is. There, now go back to bombarding people who disagree with you with shit over and over. My not answering your stupid poll is an answer in and of itself.

LL should buy back all land within 300m of any hubs at the price they sold it. It may not compensate the current owners fully, but at least it would remove the illgotten gain they are holding in the bank.

Im sorry but if you look at the sim auctions, then you will see that no land is described as hub land, it never has been, its the players themselves that have looked on the map and looked at the telehub symbol and marked it up as a hub sim and decided that its worth to pay more, linden start the bidding at the same price for every sim, and for a while the land was more attractive but as with all investments those values may go up as well as down

I still think malls will have their place, think of the basic members who cant buy land and people who just want to browse, i think a vast majority of purchases are made window shopping so to speak, so the new business model may bell become a nicely built mall, more like the out of town malls we are used to in real life

*sighs*

Okay, how does the Linden Decision about changing the way hubs relate to the fact that LindeX could possibly close in 1.8? Draw me a damn graph.

If this is a discussion about LindeX closing, it proves a fact that I had made very quietly a looong time ago stating that other currency exchanged CAN coexist with the SL Exchange, and possibly even make it better.

If this is a discussion about how the land and economy is effected by the Lindens attempting to put in point to point teleporting - I ask you this: who's more able to profit/benefit from just this change? The already eaten up hub land owners who make those land laggy (in my opinion) or the store that some 700 m south?

If there's anything thats effected by this it would be the people that sell land - for good and for bad.

I think the point he's trying to make is that for some, removing telehub land is just as if not more painful than removing the currency.

Seconded--I haven't seen one mention of currency exchange in this thread.

On the hub compensation topic, you can make it an entitlement issue if that's how you see the world. It looks to me like a perfectly defensible business decision by LL to encourage some of their best customers to maintain their level of investment in the post-P2P SL.

Is compensation "owed" or "deserved?" That question's a red herring to me, a substanceless appeal to emotion.

This can't really be that hard, right?

People, of their own free will and with no guarantees (either in terms of maintaining value or that hubs would never go away), bought the land. Nobody was forced to do so. Nobody was force to pay a higher price at auction for said land.

Nobody is entitled to ANY compensation due to hubs going away.

If LL wants to compensate, great. It's their choice. But this sense of entitlement grates on more than a few people's nerves in this thread.

really? i wasn't aware of this! can you point me to the players who are holding up havok two? i would like to start a poll about them.


sure, because my posting two joke threads is so much worse than your posting in every thread in the forum.

btw, i agee with you about keeping hubs as a backup to p2p. that would make a lot of sense for privacy reasons.

nathan,
actually for a long time linden lab did write "close to hub" in a description field in the auction listing. they also would photograph the parcel with the hub i view. not sure if they did this once they started listing whole sims a fe months back, as i stopped following auctions closely at that point.

I disagree. LL did sell the land as hub land, and they took a lot more money for it. Now they are taking away what made the land worth the extra LL received.

Why wouldn't LL be willing to buy it back? Would they fear taking the loss? If they are making a change in the value of the land based on their actions, after the fact of the sale, don't you think it would be fair to at least refund the difference in sale price? If a hubless sim sells for an average of $1250 and a hub sim sells for $2500, shouldn't LL give back the extra value they took?

I don't agree with the "auction" argument. The point is LL changed the value AFTER the auction was over. They made a decision that reduced the value of something they sold at a 100% increase over the regular price. If they make no effort to correct this issue they will most likely face a court challange to changing the value after the sale.

The purpose of the LL TOS is to relieve them of all end-user legal obligations at the point of entry/signup. It's standard practice and they rule!

I'm surprised people still beath this dead animal - you own nothing inWorld and have no rights and the rules can and will chnage without notice. Today's millioniaires could be tomorrow's street peeps!

LL did not "set" the value of the land nor change the value of the land. The people bid on the land set the value.

And where does the compensation end? Sure, land OWNERS would be compensated if LL did what you suggest, but what about the schmoe who has a rentals space where he/she has a profitable little business?

Do they get compensated for any losses they incur?

As I said before, I don't really care what LL does. I have no stake in it. I just find the entitlement attitude grating.

The Shelter sits on land that is approxomately 100m from the Isabel telehub.

About half of that land was purchased with my own cash, the rest was purchased out of our donation funds.

The Shelter is non-profit, and we depend on the community's generosity of cash, freebies, sponsorship & volunteering to survive. We don't charge money for anything, so there is no direct income stream.

Our monthly Tier charges are funded out of the Developer Incentive. I don't expect that to be around forever, and if its cut or dropped alltogether - our plan has been to sell off extra land & cut our prims down to bring our Tier costs in line with whatever our donations are.

In fact, this whole 'camping chair' phenomenon scares me a little - only because our proportional slice of the Dev Incentive pie is effectively reduced even though we're playing within the rules as they were intended.

Whether compensation for Telehub landowners happens or not, it makes little difference to the day-to-day running of the Shelter. But, I will say that in the event we do need to sell off part of our land in the future to reduce costs, we will likely get about half what we had to pay for it.

Its unfortunate, but not something that's going to kill us either. At some point, we'll probably need to switch to some sort of a 'pledge drive' model to cover costs anyway.

I just wanted to point out that its not just land barons, or for-profit enterprises that have a stake in Telehub land. Admittedly, however - I think the vast majority of it is.

Travis,

I find your stand on this especially curious, since your club stands to benefit from P2P more than to be harmed by it at all. If anything, it makes it far easier to get to your club, especially for new players. I paid a fortune for land in Meribel, and snow land is not worth what it once was. Telehub or no telehub, the price of land changes. I don't want anyone penalized for anything, but at the same time, they are risks we all take when we buy land.

What harm is caused if LL does indeed decide to compensate for the loss of telehubs?


People that have invested alot of money in telehub land have shown LL their willingness to invest in this platform. LL's willingness to offer compensation is a gesture of goodwill to those that have taken that risk. An encouragement for them to stay and reinvest.

As far as snow land decreasing in value.....isn't there still snow there? Nothing has changed but the perception of the value of snow land. In the case of hub land, something has changed, it is no longer hub land, it's just land.

The Lindens said this is not true why then do you continue on this line anyway?

cutting stipends is hurting my business! i worked hard for my ratings and now i can't afford to enjoy sl anymrore because of these new changes. etc etc.

Well - which position? On P2P, or compensation. Compensation, I guess I could take it or leave it. For the good of the Shelter, I think it would be wrong for me to turn away from it. But its not like its some huge injustice if it doesn't happen either. Everything in SL is a risk - everything.

I guess I have to walk two lines. There's the Travis that wants to do what's best for the Shelter - and frankly, P2P is it. It'll make it easier than ever for new residents to find us - which was the reason for wanting to be close to the Telehub in the first place.

Then I've got my own personal opinions on the subject. I just feel like everyone is totally underestimating what kind of change this will be for the world from a zoning perspective. Then again, I'm definately in the minority, so that has to speak for something. If everyone else around you that you consider reasonable thinks differently than you do, it may be time to do a little re-evaluation.

ZOMG! Stakeholders!

Sure, everything *is* a risk. Check out 4.6 - LL warns us specifically that they may revoke the currency.

So therefore, we shouldn't hold any L$ in our accounts? Because after all,

a) everything is a risk
b) LL is warning us that it might be revoked
c) LL has proven in the past of revoking things we thought was a staple

Correct me where I'm wrong in my logic.

Yes, you are taking a risk holding L$ in your account - a lot of things could change, including SL closing. Nothing is guaranteed, so you mitigate your risks. I don't keep large amounts of L$ in my account for that very reason.

Feel the trust!

It isn't about trust or lack of trust, it is being realistic. A lot of things can happen. When you have a TOS that avows Linden Lab of all responsibility, says that they can delete our account on a whim, that the L$ has no value, and the myriad other ways in which we are essentially fucked with little recourse, it's about mitigating your risks. If L$ has value to you because you are cashing it out to pay for tier or other purposes, then the responsbile thing would be to not sit on large sums of L$.