Lindex Could Possibly Close in v 1.8: LL might reverse position on Currency trading

Is this thread title a little better? Nice and unofficial?

I guess given that forum postings by Jauani are generally LL's preferred method of disseminating information like that, and the rest of us are boneheads without the ability to understand when someone is being facetious, I can see why the other thread was locked...

Now, just to make Blaze happy and keep things on topic:


You may now continue discussion.

Ricky, Isn't it amazing how you suddenly pop up whenever there is negative mention regarding the linden, the Lindex, or anything remotely related to that subject matter.

Or is it just coincidence.

When I have knowledge on a subject, I feel welcome to share it in these community forums. I have a fairly deep understanding of several different fields -- one of which happens to be mathematical finance -- and am pleased to pass along whatever I can to those gracious enough to read my postings. Whether we're talking finance, taxes, policy, or whatever else comes up that I feel I have something meaningful to contribute I just write what's true. For example, about a month ago I posted a mathematical analysis of a year's worth of L$ exchange rate data . No editorial. Nothing negative there. Just the facts, ma'am.

And I certainly can't be blamed if there happen to be plenty of threads (started by others, I might add!) sharply critical of the way LL has been running things lately.

But, let's try to keep this on topic, shall we? I don't want people to keep gushing on about little old me.

Well, it doesn't really matter. Secondlife is being shut down next week.

It's in the forums so it must be true!

my original post wasn't about clause 6.4 although as you know i've made issue of it in the past.

i was was reacting to the negative response people were having to LL compensating hub land owners and trying to give it some perspective in terms they could understand based on actions that are in the realm of possibility (based on clause 6.4 and other data and accounts are worthless and owned by LL clauses).

hub land owners, big and small, are taking a huge hit, and some unaffected players are just trying to twist that dagger deeper because they have a dislike for land traders, some of whom still own hub land. how community like

good for LL for attempting to act in good faith towards hub land owners as they make these changes to the teleportations system. despite the having legally relieved themselves of legal obligation in the TOS, they are showing that they will try to be accountable for how changes affect players.

No, because the P2P will help 99% of SL residents, and some are just sour cause they can't make tons of money for being in the land selling buisness. Well, not as much as they used to.

i don't know if you understand the economics of what this means.

LL sells hub land to players on auctions for ridiculously high prices, be they barons or end users. this is a well observed fact that you can search through the auctions listings to confirm. the biggest benefactor of hub land sales has been Linden Lab.

while EVERYONE will benefit from p2p, there is no arguement there, LL owes it to hub land owners to compensate them for the money they paid for that land off the auctions regardless of whether it was directly or indirectly.

That's right! So let's make a whole bunch of posts that upset and confuse the majority of people here on the message boards simply because a vocal minority enjoy complaining about the telehub land owners having difficulty. That'll show THEM!

Also -



Maybe you don't understand what an auction is. LL isn't SELLING anything for those prices - the prices are set by those doing the bidding. If those auctions sell for such high prices, it is because that amount is what someone was willing to pay for them, not because LL sold it to them for that amount.

i have an idea. if you are a minority getting shafted, STFU NOOB, i don't want to hear about it.

LL doesn't owe them anything because they chose to buy them, and players are the ones that inflated the prices. LL at no point said or decided that telehub land is more valueable, you all did.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now. Is it possible that you, who are apparently fond of creating misleading threads that are supposed to be parody, completely missed the sarcasm of my post? O.O

- I apologize, that was meant for Jauani Wu.

The minority I was speaking of were the people COMPLAINING, not the telehub owners themselves. Maybe you should read the post more carefully first.

Well, except that by instituting telehub transportation LL in effect created a simple zoning system which engendered commerce in certain areas. And LL was fully aware of what the impact of such a decision would be.

Coming up with a good RL analogy is tough, but it's similar to US frontier train towns, which, once the trains stopped running, had no reason to exist. There are hundreds of these ghost towns in the US.

This is a little different because Second Life is a service. We agree in the ToS that LL has the right to alter the service, but LL understands that many people spent a lot of time and money building virtual businesses based on proximity to hubs. Their willingness to compensate those whose businesses will be impacted is a nice and, some would argue, prudent gesture on their part.

So, you are correct, LL doesn't technically 'owe' them anything. But it is certainly in their best interest to keep those impacted by such a huge service change in mind.

What about the profits said land owners have already made from the purchase of the telehub land by operating businesses on it? It's not like the hub land owners were operating a charity. I have not seen a single thing that convinces me they deserve any compensation. No land value in SL is guaranteed, period.

Seems to me that by instituting P2P, LL is changing the rules of the game.

They are trying to compensate those who would be negatively impacted by this change.

So where's the beef?

LL is doing something that most MMORPG's don't. Usually when an MMORPG changes the ground rules you are stuck with it.

I understand that some people are upset by the land speculation. Historically Land Speculation has always had its critics but that converstion probably belongs in a thread of free markets and capitalism.

If find the suggestion that LL would shut dowm currency trading somewhat hard to take seriously. It forms a significant part of their revenue stream. For them to do this would constitute them cutting theit own throats.

LL put the hub there. LL intended these as nodes. they were explicit about this. the hubs then did infact act as nodes. now the Lindens take it away.

LL feels these players should be compensated. you feel they shouldn't. why? why do you want these people to lose money so badly that you would advocate LL to not compensate them? why do you care so much that you would go to the forum to cause a financial loss to someone else?

what about someone who bought the land last week? and now it's worth the same as land 5 sims away?

DESERVE?? huh?

yup i missed it! i still can't find it though. i need to check in for a tune up. sorry about my comment i guess. i have no idea what you are talking about. full retraction

What about someone who bought snow land and then the value dropped? What about someone who bought a prime piece of waterfront land and then the sim got lagged to hell by a club? There are a lot of risks to buying land in SL - no investment is guaranteed. Why should this one group of land owners receive compensation when no other group has?

What is so unclear about the word deserve? You are lobbying for componensation for loss of land value for a particular group, thus you feel they deserve it in this circumstance.

the snow land is still snow. LL didnt' change that. i own some. still snow. if LL changed it to grass, i would ask for a full refund.

i would like to direct you to nicola's post, a few up from here. i think it spells it out clearly enough.

so rather than seeking some kind of assurances and compensation for other players, you would like to instead hurt the group that is getting something. is that progress?

no i'm lobbying for you to STFU

i think it's just plain mean spirited what you are doing. you are using a forum for popular opinion to show LL that if they change their mind and leave these players empty handed, that nobody will care. you are taking what is a service agreement issue between LL and said players and turning it into some unexplicabley spiteful agenda against fellow residents.

the real victims of this change are not people for whom hub land represents but a small percentage of therr total land holdings. the real victims are the people who spent 40k for their only 1024 plot in sl or something in that range. and you would deny these poor sabs some extra L$ in dwell payments, which they can only earn if they actually accumulate some dwell? why?

make sure to answer this poll

And like I keep saying, no auctioneer is going to tell you you're paying too much for their product just because you *thought* it had some implied value it was never advertised as having. No one ever guaranteed you a telehub for life.

And above all, it sets a dangerous precedent. (Though the ensuing forum drama will be fun in the future with all the "zomgz Linden won't pay me compensation! no fair!" posts.)

I couldn't give a flying fuck whether Land Barons live or die, and it's really not about saying "hah! sucks to be you!", which is what you seem to believe anyone who disagrees with giving compensation is saying. You remind me a lot of Anshe when she accuses anyone who disagrees with her on anything with being jealous and starts with the personal attacks just because she couldn't even possibly conceive of anyone actually thinking that what she does is just wrong, so everyone must just want to be her.

LL have changed the goalposts time and time again, and effected many, many people in both positive and negative ways. They've never compensated before, and I don't think they should start now.

Very obviously your mileage varies. So I guess you should go start some more threads and polls telling us it's none of our business and deriding us just because we disagree with you until you've rammed that message home!

Have fun with that.

LL made telehubs as nodes, yes. But people are the ones that decided it should be more valuable. It bugs me that you think you deserve compensation for your risky investment. No, I'm not glad people think they lost money over this, but they are by no means deserving of compensation.

i don't own any telehub land. i have not owned telehub land for at least 1 year.

does it bug you that LL thinks that these players are owed compensation for their actions? did you read nicola's post?

It bugs me that anyone thinks this deserves compensation, because if this does, theres a hell of alot of other things that do too.