Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

Prepare for a Wave of New Business!!!! (Or Dealing a Defeat to Communistic Forces)

Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
04-26-2006 12:58
From: Jonas Pierterson
I don't sell textures (a partner sells freebies and those are ones uploaded from online that you find downstairs), and I redesigned the tub, just using the scripts. Hell, I built the tubs from ground up aside from scripts..including colors on my buttons and their shape.

I also leave them completely modifable and the scripts remain open source.

I also don't charge 500 for a 0l yacht

No pot calling kettle black here:)

Besides, I mentioned it to Siggy soem time ago :D

So really, you have no basis.

Lets not sell freebies, k?


The truth comes out at last. Jonas is nothing more than another hypocrite.
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
04-26-2006 13:03
I did my own work and used some open source scripts. Hardly a hypocrite ye-who-sells-freebies-for-500-lindens
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Monique Mistral
Pink Plastic Flamingo
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 167
04-27-2006 07:49
From: Jamie Bergman
SL Communists believe that SL should be free, that everybody should have as many L$s as they want, that Content creators should continue building high quality products (for the general good), and that land owners should foot the tier bill and let people live for free on their property.

Its ugly, isn't it?


Thanks, Jamie. Judging from your description, I'd say that actually very few of those criticising the current economical system of SL are communists. They can be socialists (which in this context is another matter, can be both left and right) and wish to upgrade the value of work and production, creating buying power for the common good.

Personally, I have decided to stylize myself as a "functionalist", meaning a general opinion about Virtual Worlds that products and builds should have functions in-world, not just be eyecandy. :)
_____________________
The idiots are definitely on the grass.
Monique Mistral
Pink Plastic Flamingo
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 167
04-27-2006 07:51
From: Reality Control
History has shown us the result, however. Eventually, those rise who will exploit the labor of others. They'll take what others have naively given for the good of the community and use those resources selfishly.


Not eventually, it starts immediately. Communism in the Soviet Union was nothing but a parasite on the body of the Russian people, which it kept down by the use of terror and thought crime. Over 5 miliion people perished because of Vladimir Lenin alone (in just about four years), i.e, even before Stalin came along.
_____________________
The idiots are definitely on the grass.
Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
04-27-2006 08:28
From: Monique Mistral
Thanks, Jamie. Judging from your description, I'd say that actually very few of those criticising the current economical system of SL are communists. They can be socialists (which in this context is another matter, can be both left and right) and wish to upgrade the value of work and production, creating buying power for the common good.

Personally, I have decided to stylize myself as a "functionalist", meaning a general opinion about Virtual Worlds that products and builds should have functions in-world, not just be eyecandy. :)


Well, the tricky part is that SL Communists never are that obvious. They hide behind innoculous sounding proposals and kvetchy "grass roots" movements. You have to look behind their proposals and see what they are really saying.

For example, many SL communists favor creating L$s so that everyone has as much as needed. Sounds cool, right? But what are they really saying? If LL kept creating L$ out of thin air, the value would plumment (supply and demand economics). Those content creators who have poured hours into their works would see the value of their work diminish dramatically. So, in essense, what the SL communist is saying is that content creators should work for (near) free for the "common good".

Sneaky.
Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-27-2006 09:16
From: Jauani Wu
your theory was so absurd i thought you were making a joke.

capitalists, by which i understand you to mean entrepreneurial and speculative commercial interests, are the ones who care about the stability of the L$. a declining L$ is good for the average resident. i don't understand how you could put the beginning and end of your post together without intending to give everyone a giggle.

anyone who sells L$ contributes to its decline. newcomers with bad business palns contribute to the rise in the L$. they buy stuff in SL to set up shop and never cash out because they spent it all.



Not absurd at all. Who is in a bidding war to undersell each other on the Lindex? The very people Jaime calls capitalists. Sure they care about the stability of the $L, but profits today are more important than stability tomorrow. You want proof? Just look at the statistics. Every day people underbid each other in an effort to cash out as quickly as possible. That's a bad business plan.

And it's not true that anyone who sells $L contributes to its decline. The $L will only decline if you put your $L up for sale at a lower price than its currently selling for. Selling doesn't cause a decline, just as stipends and other money coming in don't cause it. Underbidding your competitors when selling causes the decline. And it's the business people in SL who are doing it. The average resident occasionally buys $L, but rarely, if ever, sells them.

So taking away Dwell, or Stipends isn't going to have a long term affect on the value of the $L. It will just hurt the residents who depend on them. And telling them to get to work and make their own money, what will that do? It will mean more people underbidding each other on the Lindex, driving the $L further lower.
Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
04-27-2006 09:38
From: Reality Control
The true horror of 'communism' is the upper echelons. On the surface, communism looks like a welcomed savior to the people! No longer will they be kept down in poverty!

History has shown us the result, however. Eventually, those rise who will exploit the labor of others. They'll take what others have naively given for the good of the community and use those resources selfishly.


And the benefit of capitalism is that the horror can occur on any and every level instead of merely the top!

Talent agents, real estate agents, insurance agencies, banks, credit card agencies, venture capitalists, lawyers, minimum wage employers... folks looking to exploit others money and effort. (It's amazing how many RL fools use credit to buyitems that will be obsolete before they finish working to pay for them.)

The same human problems exist no matter what label you slap on it, only the rules of play shift about.

And in response to Jamie's post which sounded like it was referring to stipend supporters such as myself: I'm not for "enough L$ for everyone for free"... What I'm for is bribing players to actively participate in the SL economy... so that more players will start buying L$ when their spending habits exceed what little the stipends will cover.

If that's communism... paint me red.


(and for what it's worth... the falling value of the L$ doesn't diminsh the value of my work... only the value of the L$ I get for that work.)

--
(Mr. Green:) So. It IS political. You're a communist!
(Ms. Scarlet:) No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist.
And I'm gonna sell my secrets--your secrets--to the highest bidder.
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
04-27-2006 11:10
From: Jamie Bergman
SL Capitalists,

Thanks to our capitalistic friends over at Business Week (which SL is on the cover of the latest edition) SL is posed to attract THOUSANDS of new users. These new users will be a boon to our economy and purchase massive amounts of material from established business.

Business Owners - Lets get ready to rumble!!!!!!!!!!!

I view the Business Week story as a serious blow to communists grid-wide. Because the content of the article portrayed SL in a highly capitalistic way, there is sure to be an influx of our faction. Good news as I was beginning to think the communists might have been gaining ground.

Kudos to King Philip for this coup de' gras.




The Capitalist Attack has begun.... SL will be swamped with
Capitalist to out number the Socialists 5 to 1.

Glory, Glory, Our Day has Arrived.
_____________________
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
04-27-2006 11:26
From: ReserveBank Division
The Capitalist Attack has begun.... SL will be swamped with
Capitalist to out number the Socialists 5 to 1.

Glory, Glory, Our Day has Arrived.


And then it will realise that as long as the capitalists are the people who tend to benefit from capitalism (ie, money makers) and the socialists are the people who tend to think they would benefit from socialism (ie, money spenders), that the market can't operate with that ratio. :D
Monique Mistral
Pink Plastic Flamingo
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 167
04-27-2006 11:59
From: Jamie Bergman
Well, the tricky part is that SL Communists never are that obvious. They hide behind innoculous sounding proposals and kvetchy "grass roots" movements. You have to look behind their proposals and see what they are really saying.


I don't believe in this and I fear your follow up example is flawed. Only because you're not supporting the FIC's daily swamping the currency market as they bring home profits in USD and then whine about the very consequences of their own actions (the falling L), trying to put the blame on the ordinary SL consumer, it does not make you a communist.

If these speculators are what is meant by "capitalists" however, I'm furiously anticapitalist, and I am, as you have already learned, a fierce enemy of communism. Yes, you can be both.

I don't have no secret agendas, and neither do most others (for example Prokofy Neva, Lewis Nerd etc) who criticise the current system. If you want to test if a person is a communist on the other hand, observe how they react as soon as you mention the historical reality of communism, see them violently attack you, make excuses due to their New York liberal upbringing, make irrelevant references to nazism, racism or generally behaving obnoxiously politically correct. That's a true leftie and at least a potential bolshevik.

I am neither of those. In fact, I bet a few of them can be found on the Linden currency exchange, nowadays proudly naming themselves libertarian capitalists.
_____________________
The idiots are definitely on the grass.
Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-27-2006 20:15
From: Jauani Wu
i don't really have an opinion on the newcomers. michael does. he's sad they will be competing to sell L$ with him on the lindex.



Well, should I be polite or rude?

Let's go with polite this time....

Jauani, I don't know how you possibly came up with the ridiculous idea that I'm sad that new residents will be competing to sell L$ with me on the Lindex. But, just to put your mind at ease, I've never sold money on the Lindex, and don't ever foresee having enough money in SL that I would need to. So, don't worry, I'm not sad.

That aside, at least if you're going to attribute things to people, try not to make stuff up. It just seems dishonest somehow.
Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
04-27-2006 21:28
From: Michael Seraph
Well, should I be polite or rude?

Let's go with polite this time....

Jauani, I don't know how you possibly came up with the ridiculous idea that I'm sad that new residents will be competing to sell L$ with me on the Lindex. But, just to put your mind at ease, I've never sold money on the Lindex, and don't ever foresee having enough money in SL that I would need to. So, don't worry, I'm not sad.

That aside, at least if you're going to attribute things to people, try not to make stuff up. It just seems dishonest somehow.


Welcome back to "Land and the Economy" by the way, Michael. :) I haven't noticed you posting much lately.
_____________________
Regards,
Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Metaverse Investment Fund
Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
04-27-2006 21:32
From: Jonas Pierterson
I did my own work and used some open source scripts. Hardly a hypocrite ye-who-sells-freebies-for-500-lindens


Doesn't Jamie also modify the freebies that she sells? What you've described sounds a lot like modifying freebies.
_____________________
Regards,
Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Metaverse Investment Fund
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
04-27-2006 22:25
If it's a 'sink or swim' environment - boy howdie will I make out like a bandit!.
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.

From: Jesse Linden
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
04-28-2006 00:03
I wasn't aware building a hot tub then putting scripts (that are open soarce and remain open source) in them was modifying anything. Here I thought building something meant it was bult, not modified. Is my definition off?

I also don't charge for the scripts since I got them free. Only my work with the design and implementation, texturing and shaping.

My hot tub might use Siggy's scripts (something he was aware of) but they are different in design than his design, and the scripts are still an added 'freebie' with the tubs.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
04-28-2006 00:07
From: someone
The truth comes out at last. Jonas is nothing more than another hypocrite.


Considering the source of this comment (Jamie Bergman) and their definition of SL communist (going by which there might be 1 or 2 sl communists in all of SL), I take this as a compliment. Obviously any negative comment from Jamie is a compliment in hiding. Thank you Jamie, for admitting we are all better than you.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
1 2 3