If you'd act instead of talk...

If all the people that contributed their opinions or the usual anti-anshe-hate-blabber about the L$ crisis in 256 different threads here, would instead DO something to save the situation, it would be more effective. But writing endless threads is usually more entertaining...
I have several times bought the tip off the iceberg in the last weeks. It never lasted long, because some extra smart indidividuals saw a good chance sell cheap afterwards, but it worked for the moment. Unfortunately my finances aren't good enough to do this in a continuous manner, but if a large group of people here would pull the same string and start buying the undervalued L$ out, it might have a lasting effect. A few days ago I bought low priced L$ for 2000 USD off the market and just reposted them at a higher rate. I didn't make any money on this action, but I got even and the L$ were sold the SAME DAY at a better rate. Needless to say I cannot do this every day since i have to stress my amex card for such actions and then withdraw the funds again and repay amex, but again, with many people doing the same, it would become a continuous process. The same principle has worked with landprices inworld multiple times already too.
Take the lowballers out...

Another good thing would be if certain egomaniacs would stop underselling the current rate each time they L$. I know this won;t happen, cause "F**k the econimy if I want to sell now" is the rule. Here the problem is the way LL has set this market up. It asks for this effect. It may seem a strange comparison, but this is the same principle that happens on Amazon.com with the bookpricing. Certain sellers, that need to be the cheapest at any cost, keep spiraling the price for books down on a daily, sometimes even hourly basis. The result is that there are probably 10000 books on Amazon listed at 1 cent sales price in the moment, which would sell for 5.00 as well if certain idiots wouldn't ruin the market. This same thing will happen here, if not either the sellers bring in some discipline in their selling behavior or other measures, as from LL will be taken.

This is the smartest post in this subforum in the last months, although given the quality of most of the posts lately this is sadly not much to say...

Thanks for risking your finances to keep the economy healthy. My personal opinion of you has gone up a couple hundred points

Thing is... the 'problem' that you are trying to 'fix' only affects the tiny minority of people who milk SL for their own profit, and a big profit at that.

The vast majority of people BUY L$, not sell them - so the more L$ you get for your $, the better deal they are getting.

Buying $2000 worth of L$ to resell for what you claim as 'no profit' was an incredibly stupid risk to take for yourself, plus there were probably many people who would have benefitted from having more game money for their real money. It actually did more damage than the good that you perceived.

Next time you have a great idea like this, please log out and walk away from your computer. Everybody lost.

Consider this. The market may not be where *you* want it, but it is where the *majority* want it to head. Stop manipulating it for your own means - and that applies to the rest of you who whine about 'losing value'.

Lewis

Considering the fact that LL advertises SL as an economic platform, and the whole of your posts, Lewis, I think you have to ask yourself whether such assertions as "everybody lost" are based on solid proof or on your personal desire to see the economy go away.

Personally I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the potential to get some money. I have this insane bad habit of eating every day, and my monthly revenue in SL helps. A lot.

Advertising SL as an 'economic platform' is actually detrimental to everyone because it distracts from the enjoyment and creativity factor that it allows.

Of course my 'everyone lost' point is true. Did you read it? One individual taking $2000 worth of L$ off the bargain market and reselling it back at a lower rate took the opportunity away from many people - including myself - who might have perhaps invested $10 or $20 in buying some bargain play money to spend perhaps buying that item they've been thinking about, or perhaps get that plot of land a little earlier than they would be able to by saving up their stipend.

One thing that you and many others forget is that for every person that makes a profit, many people make a loss.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people whine about market manipulation when someone puts money for sale at more L$ to the $ than the normal rate - yet don't think twice when they sell for less than the market rate. It's still manipulation, either way.

Lewis

I disagree. I find it enjoying and creative to sell my creations in SL. Having a business here is funny.

Yes, I read it, but the opposite point can also be argued: the new price might make some people who were holding their money sell L$ and probably reinvest that money in SL. But anyway that wasn't what I meant. What I meant is that "everybody loses" is just plain wrong. Some lose, some win. And claiming things like "the majority this" or "the majority that" is inherently biased, given that LL doesn't release any particular data on economic issues.

In any case I'll stop now and return to forum lurking. I'm usually not very good at discussing complex topics in English and I get quite tired easily

Yes - it would, it won't, it is and it does. I've been saying exactly this for a while. The system will always result in people trying to undercut each other, there will always be a large proportion who will continue to do this no matter what (who can tell if they do?) and the idea that it makes them money quickly will always be seen to justify it.

*gazes into 50% transparent glass sphere*

Huge L$ owners will continue to put up massive sums and skew the exchange rate completely, cutting their own margins to the bone because they can, and smaller traders can't compete with that without economies of scale and tier, so will be making less and less money. Some will leave completely (particularly those who came to SL specifically to make money), some will tier down, some will get used to the idea that they can't make a profit or cover their tier and carry on anyway.

Larger scale businesses will start to Lindex-link their payments where they can, so that to rent for example you have to pay L$ based on the market Lindex rate for a fixed amount of US$.

I can't see anything about Havok in here though.

Marm, I am afraid I partially agree with Lewis on this one. It is not wise to buck the market unless you have inside information legally acquired, and if you were in that fortunate position it would be unwise to post your intentions as it would spoil the price. Sorry to be blunt.

For everybody else I am currently working on what I believe to be a partial solution to the Linden devaluation, and when I have had the chance for final full consultations I will post here in a separate thread and invite you to visit my in world site so you can evaluate yourselves

Isn't that what a real life job is for? Even contracting or temp work would earn you more $/hour than working in SL, unless you're one unnamed landbaron.

Personally, I'm with Lewis on this one. Everyone lost on this one.... and to the OP, if you bought low and sold high and didn't make much of a profit, you're doing something wrong.

-Ghoti

Yeah, my real life job at this time earns me 450 € / month at 20 hours per week. At a proportionate number of hours my SL revenue is... uhmmm, actually higher No need for landbaroning, just supplying what people want while having a lot of fun at it, and taking EXTREME care with client support.

I think you are confusing "seller attempting to make a rapid sale given the constraints of the LindeX mechanism" with "egomania". I think you are also confusing the actions of a mostly open market for establishing equilibrium price in the place of intentional market manipulation.

To answer your subject line, all the participants in the market are doing something, that is selling and buying. What they aren't doing is advocating collusive market manipulation in a manner that satifies your desire that the exchange rate be other than it is.

If I am willing to sell L$ for 1000:1 that doesn't make me a idiot or a manipulator or an egomaniac, it means that is the value I place upon them. Similarly for books on amazon that you mention; if I want to sell a book for US$0.01, that is my privilege.

Incidentally, I neither buy nor sell L$ on any market.

... then you need a new real job, because according to my calculations that falls below the legal minimum wage in both the US and UK. Obviously I don't know where you are though, things may be different in your country.

Lewis

The problem as I see it is that the € is real money and the L$ is not. By that I mean to say, you can go buy food with the €, but must exchange the L$ for € to use it in the same way.

What happens if you translate your SL business of 'supplying people what they want' into RL and earn € instead of L$?

-Ghoti

Sure, do you happen to own a couple factories that I could use?

As for the minimum wage, yeah, I know. Do you think all these people in France are protesting for nothing? (I'm in Spain, but the situation is more or less the same)

What you are suggesting, is call currency manipulation.

Not exactly in the up and up in RL sense.

I hope you don't join into the bashing of anyone not sharing Lewis' assumptions of "how to properly play SL". His views on that question are very restrictive.

Marmela just states what is true: It is very hard to make a profit daytrading on the LindeX. The reason is simple. When you sell, LL takes a comission of 3,5%. Additional fees are charged when you actually want to cash out your money. When Marmela bought at 300 she would have to wait till the rate is 290 again, to make a profit. This did not happen ...

"The vast majority of people BUY L$, not sell them - so the more L$ you get for your $, the better deal they are getting"
If there wouldn't be people that sell, you couldn't buy any....
What you forget in his "calculation" is that for the more you get the prices will go up too, so no one profits from letting things go. People want to buy land or rent land. The landprices have gone considerably up over the last weeks. Guess why?
New sims are bought with USD , not with L$, otherwise there will soon be no new land. You don't expect that people invest 1200$ - 1500$ for a sim and invest at least 3-5 hours parcelling and setting this sim for sale, want to do that for completely nothing or even a loss, cause selling worthless L$ from the transactions doesnt even bring the purchase price together?
This is called work...here like in the real world, and the "massive" profits are indeed enomus with a 10-20% gain calculation versus 195$ tier per sim pro month. Next thing will be to raise the prices on rentals because of the same issue. For me they cause about 3-4 hours work per day. Work isn't that much fun in SL either, once you don;t get a quiet minute anymore to actually play and work should be compensated, here as everywhere. Start from there if you believe everything is milking. The only ones that profit from the whole devaluation are the proud camping chair facilities, that pay in the end less money for the same inflated stats.

Well I'm sorry that my ideas prove unpopular with you - but your ideas prove unpopular with me. What makes you think you're right?

Simple thing is thus... don't try and make money by manipulating the market, then we won't have to worry about hearing you complaining when you don't make a profit.

Lewis

Dana - I think you misunderstood me. I didn't try to daytrade and wasn't planning on making a profit. I put the resell rate exactly so that i would get even on sale. The only reason for it was an attempt ti stop the fall... through that 1 action alone, the quote went from bottom 301 back to 289 for that day.
In my post earlier I mentioned I will have to raise my rents if this low value stays. I don't want to *have to* do that and explain to over 100 people that rent from me why it is necessary, and change like 500 advertising blocks - so I'm trying to work against it.

And Lewis - you don't even wanr to understand what I am saying...or you are so blinded by your "non profit" thinking that you can't. You also didn't even read it right...

If I didn't understand it, it's because a) you didn't explain it properly, and b) what you did made no sense to me anyway.

You could have been S.O.L if your 'idea' had all gone wrong... what if someone else had decided to put a few million on the market at a lower rate and people had been buying that for the next week or two as everyone else panicked... then your credit card bill was processed and you're stuck with a nice lump of interest on $2000 that you can't pay back because it's stuck in Lindex.

Lewis

Actually I bought and resold 3/4 mil that day(sorry lewis I did turn a profit). What people don't realize is when prices do go up because of the failing $L they will go up MORE than the $L fell becauses we'll factor in future fall so we don't have to make the change every week. And Lewis and other "gamers" if this is only a game to you and you don't care about the economy why don't you quit trolling the... ECONOMY forums? ROFL!

Nothing. I don't think I am "right" or you are "wrong". There are many truths, different interests and many different ways to enjoy SL.

It is just ... contrary to some other people on the forums I dont consider my opinion to be right for "everybody". It is a very common mistake to confuse ones own interests with "everybody"s. It is still a mistake.

And please do me the favour not to say you are sorry, if you are not.

I've already explained this to you and others many times but for the benefit of those who don't read....

We may not want to "play the economy", but we have little choice when it comes to participating. Everything to do with money or land sales - which virtually every serious player has to deal with at some time - is dependent on how those of you who want to make a living off of the game are feeling at that moment.

You want the price to be L$250/$1 because you want to make money. We want the price to be L$300/$1 because we want to get value for money. Land barons set the price - and anyone who tries to sell cheaper than the land barons simply find a land baron buys the land at the bargain price and then puts it straight back on sale at the price they want to be - both screw everyday players who just want to play for fun rather than profit. I've said it before and I'll say it again, until LL change their marketing and promote the creativity and enjoyment aspects of SL rather than "hey you can make a hundred thousand dollars a year here" then we will see a better type of player coming into the game, more people upgrading to premium accounts, a more secure long term playerbase, and a lot more likely future for SL. People throwing in millions in funding will only last so long before someone says "unless I'm going to make a profit I'm pulling out", which then screws everybody by doing exactly what you capitalists are doing to the rest of us.

If you consider 'trolling' to be merely putting forward an opposite opinion to you, providing facts and opinion to support that point of view, and refusing to back down under pressure... then guess what? You're trolling too. Kindly stop it.

Lewis

This is where I have to go and take offense...

What makes you a "better" player than me?

Sorry that I phrased my comment in a way that lead to misunderstandings. I should not have used the term "daytrading".

I was just trying to explain to those who don't know much about the workings of the LindeX why it is possible to buy low and sell high and still don't make a profit.