Lindens get the **** off the LindeX!

whoa dont put me in the same class as the others Lina

I'm not pushing for removing stipends or anything to that effect. The only thing I'M talking about is the fact that LL can sell L$ and that is economic stuff.

I like my stipend, and i KNOW its not a welfare system. I pay my $9.99/mo to get my measly L$500 a week. People do need that to spark spending inside the game IMHO.

again the only thing I'm perosnally discussing is the fact that with LL's ability to buy/sell on lindex is not a bad thing, its a good thing to stabalize the currency market

Well, LL hasn't set a rate yet because the considered "perfect" rate has yet to be found. Basically LL is using this new policy as a way to find a stable buying/selling range, it will take a few weeks/months for us to see LL getting "better" at it. It's also excellent that they are starting this now, considering SL is still a small market and population; cause LL is getting ready for larger ventures to take place within their platform.

Quite possibly but R&D wants the stipends to go away. And people do need the stipend to spark spending in SL actually. All money comes from the stipend even if you buy it from another resident. While LL can sell if they dont have the power to move around things to meet the means to keep the currency "stable" will they keep reverting to cutting out the supply which by the way in the long run will hurt everyone regardless if they realize it yet or not. I wasnt tying you in with that group and i said R&D as far as that means goes. But sadly i think a few people need to look into how SL works a bit more before they make a decision on this.

I have 2 premium accounts now and the cutting wont effect me much but the cutting if it reflects older players eventually and if things go the way R&D want them to things will go bad. I dont think LL selling is bad but it does however cause a panic and last time they announced that they were changing tos so they could it caused the L to drop. When LindEx was made same thing. Most of the major dips were caused by panic. The rise in the L value was more likely due to people regaining confidence rather then LL taking out volume.

Actually LL's considered perfect rate as you put it was announced by them awhile back. They want the economy to be around 250 L > 1 USD. And FYI these "larger ventures" (ill assume you mean real life business here) will never do that well in SL simply because most residents wont take to it and unless its forced on them (which screws over SL's developer userbase for the mostpart) they are very likely not to take to it. So really these larger ventures are nothing more then like a real life billboard. They still have to overcome what other people do in SL just with people being alot more skeptical and receptive to them.

thats true in any economy

gas panic is the #1 thing ATM. Panic as the gas pump prices skyrocket. now artificial panic induced by forum posting is a joke. I rarely see RBD do it, but that other person forget the name, used to LOVE to try to induce panic (SELL L NOW HURY OR DIE AHHHA WAAAHHH)

they only do it because now with the low margin between buy/sell they cant profit as much as they used to... so instead of changing thier business model.. they attempt panic in the forums by saying things like OH SHIT LL CAN BUY/SELL MARKET GONNA CRASH WAHH

any educated person knows thats BS... but someone not wise to SL or RL economics may believe the posts.

anyway LL has had the ability to buy/sell for a while now, just never has.

the scenario is very similar to the New York Stock Exchange. Ever since the great depression, the NYSE has had checks put into place to close the stock exchange if nearing a crash. Well now LL has the same function. They can also prevent people with huge L$ balances from dumping their cash at 500/1 by being able to sell themselves.

Handled correctly... LL being able to buy/sell is a good thing for the market. And I believe LL will never remove stipends, it'll just slow in world buying/selling of goods and services because there would only be so much money in world to trade hands

Um.. well I meant larger venture possibility. By both current residents and yes, larger corporations. And yes, they could compete, why not?

As for the rate of $250, I think it's too close to call that just yet. I'll wait to see what LL finds after the third month of block sales to begin to hypothesize that.

Yep and the thing you dont know is R&D has put stuff like sell now out to. R&D has done it under diff names at times however and has some alts Dmitri could back that up as well. And you see the thing with the stipends you agree on. But there was little reason to lower it to 400 or get rid of the basic stipend for that matter. It was just restoring confidence in. I think in all honesty a thing i have stated before having a target rate and a range.

I dont think thats a bad idea if the range is set far enough to let things fluxuate. It'd also completely stabalize things within that range so it cant move above or below a certain limit if its done right. But someone said this was a bad idea. Really just depends how its implemented. If people have confidence in LindEx things seem fine. The panic caused the value to go down awhile back when lindex was first made was the first big dip and the tos changes. Im not sure how this new announcement has effected things.

I care about SL and what i push for is a SL where things are balanced correctly between economy and social aspects. If LL keeps pushing the economic side of SL and these changes to the Stipend continue things will get bad if it goes to far. I just hope SL makes some better decisions for the rest of us that dont have businesses.

It was stated by LL im not making a call on that. Thats what they wanted it to stabalize around. And larger corporations i say wont compete if you look at alot of residents that have been here awhiles reactions. In fact lemme grab a thread for you where there is a discussion about real life companies in SL. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?p=18246#post18246

There are other threads elsewhere im just not going to dredge up a bunch of links. Corporations wont really compete with residents because of the fact residents are likely not to respond well to real life companies. Never mind the the post that has little relvence to do with the subject and just goes off an Aimee as being bad though.

So you're implying LL will blockade *all* resident sales of L$?
Maybe it will only happen when the economy is being erratic and needs stability. One could conjur up just as many positive presumptions as negative. Vigilance is certainly well justified here, but why promote wrecklessly negative presumption?

Correct - the stipend isn't welfare. It's debasement - https://secondlife.com/currency/economy.php

Who, fed up with the fluctuations of the l$/USD exchange rate are more and more opting to be paid by Paypal (or similar) and bypassing the linden altogether. Nowadays, when i do, reluctantly, take on a customer who pays by lindens I quote a USD rate and accept payment at the lindex sell rate so when I immediately sell, I get the dollars I wanted in the first place,

Which effectively means that all the, no doubt elegant and sophisticated monetary theories that constanly swirl around here are just so much hot air from my pov.

Oh yes, just in case anyone doubts my commitmemt to SL, the current count is 7 private island sims (fully occupied) and more to follow soon.

They are very well run as well, ty, Phoenix.

Either way the stipend is paid for in the premium account and you cant moot that point no matter how hard you try. To get rid of it either 1 they'd need to compensate giving us 512 sq meters more land for free or they would need to cut 5 dollars about out of the fee that is paid out.

Well, tbh, LL isn't creating SecondLife as a play MMO for a handful of people. Their longterm plan is to convert SL technology into the next version of the Internet. So, sorry but real-life corporations were eventually going to seep in and do their business here in one form or w/e. The important decision reflected by LL in this new economic policy strengthens this idea.

And, in no way is LL trying to take advantage of us by using this policy. A federated market economy works well in RL, and it's duplication here has so far proven well. But, for LL to say "Oh, we want it at $250" is plain ridiculous. This is because money flow in SL is non-capital based, meaning they have no value, meaning that number can just as easily be $500/L.. again the important factor here is that LL is using the "Fed/Bank" method to stabilize the dollar at a rate that's soon to be determined.

Just pointing out what LL said before. It was their so called magic number for what they wanted it to hover around. Im sure you can find a posting of it somewhere if you looked. And real life business may come to SL but the residents will be the ones to decide if a real life business succeeds here or not. If they make bad products they will fail like everyone else plain and simple. And if LL wants to make SL into the next version of the web like i have stated many many times now they need to balance the economic and social side of things to meet at the middle of a balance between the two. If they push to hard in either direction things wont go well and without that balance its hard to see them advancing to much further.

I think them selling is fine but there is little to no reason to cut down on the stipends. If people were more patient things would be fine and the fact the cut was made after the economy has been stable after about a month just seems rediculous at this point in time.
Over the last year LL has gotten rid of numerous sources of money. Did this make the L value go up? No it did not in fact it went down. If you look thru the trends of the past year getting rid of money hasnt really done a things.

As i stated LindEx simply went up due to a confidence boost because LL stuck it to basic accounts. Which 50L a week isnt going to kill anyone. Something i think alot of people fail to take into account is the fact that not everyone in SL is selling their L. There has to be a balance and LL needs to realize it. Stop just focusing on the economic/business end of things when the social end of things are just as important.

OK so my response......

WAAAAA!...I'm quite happy to see you day traders geting hosed as badly as you try to do to those of us just trying to get by in the in world economy. You won't be happy til there is no source of L income in world anymore and everyone has to buy your L's or sit around looking stupid. Maybe when y'all go broke and are sufferring like the rest of us you'll start seeing clearly instead of just weatching out for yourself. Ultimately the destruction of any economy in an attempt to manipulate it will destroy the manipulator as well

No it's not your wrong and I'm surprised Lawerence thinks anyone won't see though his bull about avoiding price swings. This is a money grab nothing else. And given that no limit LL has set so far has stood uncrossed don't bet on the 10k or 5% limit standing either. Any one actually believe they are trying to stabilize the market? Show me where they said they would BUY Lindens on Lindex.

No. The Stipend (IS NOT) paid for with your premium account. Linden Labs does not take a portion of your premium fee and purchase linden dollars off the LindenX and hand them to you every Tuesday. That would be "Paying For your L$500".

What is happening is that you are paying Linden Labs US$72/yr for the "privilege" of receiving newly printed linden dollars. That is the different, a concept that seems to go right over the heads of everybody. I guess the saying is true, common sense isn't common.

Because of that setup, Linden Labs is always printing "new" money which is adding to the supply of linden dollars in SL. The net result is a currency devaluation caused by a process known as Money Supply Inflation.

At least now with LL ending stipends and selling Linden Dollars with limits on the total amount per month, it means that economic demand within SL will determine if new linden dollars are need. If yes, the population will buy them from LL. If no, then buying linden dollars off LindenX will be a cheaper price than what LL is charging. Forcing folks to use the existing money supply for transactions instead of adding to it with new money.

No, the LindeX numbers are from the table in the database that records the partial transactions. Each record references a buy order and a sell order and has values for the number of L$ exchanged and the number of US$ exchanged. That data is summarized nightly to produce the daily stats seen on the LindeX Market Data page.

Cheers,
Lawrence

You read it correctly. The announcement says "2) Sales will not be market-sale orders. Supply Linden will list only limit-sell orders. We will not sell Linden Dollars through market-sell orders."

Cheers,
Lawrence

Let me mention that if we catch folks with Currency Trader tiers (including their alts) putting forth a large amount of effort in the forums to induce economic panic while in the L$ buying cycle of their trading we will be noting that behavior on their trading accounts.

It is likely that that information will be considered during their next tier review, possibly sooner in more extreme cases. We will likely ask them to explain why their behavior did not represent an attempt at market manipulation.

You are all welcome to express your opinions about market conditions, LindeX, Linden Lab policies, the color of the sky, or whatever suits your fancy. Just please don't use the forums to manipulate the market, especially if you're in the Currency Trader tiers.

I'd love to provide a real example, but I can't find an appropriate way to do so. I just IMed the only person I've seen really pushing the boundaries this week. If you didn't just get an IM from me it wasn't you.

We'll add a note about this to the tier request page in the near future.

If you have any questions about this, please ask.

Cheers,
Lawrence

Surely you don't mean to say that while proclaiming:



that same person was actually buying up Lindens ? I'm shocked.

Hi Lawrence, nice to see you have been allowed out on day release from the Asylum

If you absolutely believe you can stop insider trading and market manipulations, and if you are successful, you are wasted here labouring far below your pay grade.

If you succeed IM or email me and I will arrange for you to be headhunted by the FSA or Securities and Exchange Commission. That is if you fancy a new life as a compliance officer with all the money, adoration, and sheer power such a job will bring you. -

Limit sell does sound just a bit better, though, what will be the limit price? It could be L$ 290.. or it could be L$ 350?

If the limit is too low number (L$/USD-wise) (eg. a price which the market never reaches), no sales will happen and Lindens can't rake in money, not even the 10 000 USD/month.

Is the 10 000 USD a deterrent number to stop people from manipulating the market?

And I still feel Lindens might get greedy and hungry... Maybe they'll rake in 10 000 USD/month first, then more and more. And it would be actually funny if they said: here are our sinks, 10 million Lindens leaving the system a week. Of those 10 million, we'll destroy 8 million, and 2 million we'll sell on LindeX, because we think this helps the market be stable currently.

No one will ever completely stop insider trading / market manipulation, but any and all efforts to prevent as much of it as possible should always be applauded.