Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

End Stipends Now

Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
06-11-2006 04:08
I think your putting to much faith on other people there Hunter. I go by what i've seen these people do since I've been here. You got one screaming for her own currency at one point which was totally wrong not to mention it was backed by something that really has no real world value. Difference between SL and the Real World is simply this real world the money exchanged is backed and is said to have a certain value. SL money doesnt have a value we set our own value. The problem with LindEx is they can go in and sell for whatever they want. There isnt a bid on the money that can make it go higher that would be nice but there isnt.

Sadly I wont put faith in these people screaming end the stipends because I how alot of these people screaming it operate. The problem getting rid of the stipends is it wont help the economy. If the theory they have was correct then back when rating bonuses and the like were cut we should of seen a spike in the L. Did that happen? Short answer is no. They can get rid of the supply all they want but the value is going to continue to go down if they want to keep selling it fast. The problem we face with the anti-stipend people is they are hoping the stipend ends for some reason. My guess is so they can unload vast amounts of L at a higher price forcing us to buy them.

I'll admit it may peak up the value but what is the cost going to be to other residents to do this? You claim they want an SL that will continue yet they continually try to make a move that would effectively end alot of what SL is. People complain there arnt enough jobs in SL so as it is. This move would effectively get rid of any that do exist. Escorts/Dancers would be outta work effectively as well because now their clients have to go out and buy all the L. The stipend is something that is needed for the future of SL.

And we get it fairly (unless that person is a lifetime account holder). I pay for my stipend with the premium account. I give an extra 5 dollars a month to get that money. Now 5 dolalrs at the current exchange rate is 1532L and Im entitled to recieve that much as such that i pay for it. Now currently i get 500L more then that not a big deal as i dont sell my L. But the person that does is putting it under value. This trend will most likely continue with the stipend gone or not depending on if the people werent just out to make money.

If they were out to make money off it we are going to see a major spike in the L value as they force us to buy grossly over priced L. I dont want these people to have control over the economy completely which is what they are hoping to do. Its just being able to see behind their smoke and mirrors to see what is truly going on here is quite bad for SL.
Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
06-11-2006 04:26
From: Rathe Underthorn
I believe in a stable economy for the overall stability and growth of Second Life. If Second Life is to be more than a game then it must provide an environment that supports creativity and rewards innovation.

History has proven that in stable and flourishing economies innovation excels and communities prosper. More arts, more ideas, more culture, and higher standards of living. Whereas it is quite the opposite in unstable economies with poorer standards of living. Less arts, less entertainment, poorer education, and less innovation.

That being said, I have put my money where my mouth is. Every Tuesday I receive L$500 in the form of a free stipend. This stipend is the number one significant cause of the devaluation of the L$ as a currency with disasterous effects on the economy causing rampant inflation. I have removed one year of stipend, or L$26,000 from the Second Life economy by publishing a classified ad in the amount of L$26,000 to spread the word of the negative impact stipends have on the stabilization of Second Life as a platform.

Please join me in spreading the message by adding your own classified ad or collaborating on higher ranking ones. Put your money where your mouth is and lets END STIPENDS NOW!




Stipend is not free money. I paid US$225.00 for mine and I expect my 500 lindens each and every week.
Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
06-11-2006 04:27
From: Jonas Pierterson
You get a free stipend? Where do I get one of those? I pay my premium fees to get my PAID FOR IN ADVANCE stipend. Get your head out of the economics only side of the game and learn to relax..really. I always sort classifieds in an ascending order, starting at the 50 linden ads, so i guess I won't have to see your BS then, right? Good.



Well Said
Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
06-11-2006 04:31
From: Magnum Serpentine
Stipend is not free money. I paid US$225.00 for mine and I expect my 500 lindens each and every week.


until LL change the ToS
_____________________

tired of XStreetSL? try those!
apez http://tinyurl.com/yfm9d5b
metalife http://tinyurl.com/yzm3yvw
metaverse exchange http://tinyurl.com/yzh7j4a
slapt http://tinyurl.com/yfqah9u
Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
06-11-2006 04:32
From: Lina Pussycat
I think you people ranting to end stipends are prolly the lowest people in SL you obviously dont enjoy playing it and dont care if others do or not. Your out for your own little greedy agenda's and you yourselves are the ones hurting the economy with spewing crap like this. I dont think you quite get that YOU people are the ones controlling the linden value. Its not this supply problem you would have everyone believe and you know it as damn well as I do.

Remember there is a difference between Sl's economy and a R/L economy. Real Life is a controlled economy based on supply of products and demand for them. Getting rid of the stipends will not help you as the only sane thing to do then would be to actually end the selling of Lindens completely by users. All you guys are going to end up doing if this gets thru is creating some small little group that has total control over the entire economy in SL and then LL will need to step in and just sell it themselves. So you see your just going to end up hurting yourselves in the long run of things.

Whats your reasoning for getting rid of the stipends ? I've yet to hear 1 single solitary solid argument for getting rid of them. Only these people that would benefit from getting rid of them seem to claim its a good thing. Notice a trend there? I think LL needs to take a hard look at the people posting this and their lindex sales and check my point. I've been here about a year now and have seen alot of BS over that time but getting rid of the stipend has really been the biggest BS move by residents that hold money now that i have seen in a year.

I want you people that post to get rid of the stipends to honestly Look at yourselves, the community as a whole and Sl's economy as a whole and look at someone straight faced without a single bit of guilt and say that its still a good thing. You wanna make SL into something totally oriented to business and that is the worst thing in the world. Many people play SL for leisure and shouldnt be forced to buy L from you just because you wanna make a profit. They should have a choice in the matter and currently they do and you simply dont like it and complain about that.

This basis of your arguments to get rid of it are sad and quite weak.




Amen...
Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
06-11-2006 04:48
From: Francis Chung
This isn't even true, nor does it make sense.

Rathe feels very passionately about SL, and like many of us, he wants to see it succeed. I believe Rathe's intentions are purely altruistic. Unlike many people, he believes that the good of the many outweigh the good of the few.

Let me prove it to you. Like Rathe says, he has a lifetime account - as long as stipends are in place, he essentially gets free L$500 a week. If he was a greedy person, he would insist that stipends remain in place.

But Rathe believes something else is more important than make a bit of easy money - he'd like to see SL be successful, and a key component of that is to create a stable econonomy.

The point is this:
It is irresponsible monetary policy to print money, and then sell it for below market rates. We're all witnessing this the ramifications of this policy in terms of continual inflation. Just like any other economy, the key to long-term success should be to grow the economy without inflation.



One more time...

The Stipends are NOT FREE. Preminum members pay 72 bucks a year for 500 lindens and I paid US$225 for my lifetime account. We Paid for our 500.

You all keep your hands off our money.
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
06-11-2006 05:19
I'd actually be quite interested to know how many of those crying to kill off our little L$500 a week stipend (which we have paid for) actually receive it as part of their premium account, or are they just basics and/or alts?

I certainly think that there's a basis for when you reach a certain level in game you no longer receive all or any of the stipend - I mean, a big player cashing out $1000 a month on Lindex isn't going to notice not having a stipend, whereas someone like me who rely on the stipend to sustain their creativity in the absence of customers will notice - and suffer.

This morning I organised an event, just sitting round my campfire area, chatting. At one point I had 16 people there, at 1.00am game time. Almost without exception people expressed how nice it was not to have something that wasn't *ingo, 'best in' or pornographic in nature.

The event cost me nothing, I received nothing for it - but that doesn't mean it was worthless. I enjoyed it, as did those who attended. That's the sort of thing that will disappear first if there are no stipends, because we're the sort of player who does things for fun rather than profit.

Lewis
_____________________
Second Life Stratics - your new premier resource for all things Second Life. Free to join, sign up today!

Pocket Protector Projects - Rosieri 90,234,84 - building and landscaping services
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-11-2006 05:25
From: Lewis Nerd
It is those selling in a hurry, undercutting each other for the sake of a quick sale in order to reach targets that are the cause of the problem.


No. No matter how many times people repeat this, this is just not so. If supply did not outweigh demand, then they wouldn't have to 'undercut' to make a sale. There are more Lindens being offered for sale than people are buying, therefore to make sure yours get sold, you have to compete on price.

If demand exceeded supply, you would see people doing the opposite, holding out for a better price. They wouldn't need to undercut, their orders would be getting filled anyway. Whatever your position on the stipend, supply exceeding demand is the reason for L$ devaluation, there's no escaping that.

You (and others) choose this simplistic argument to justify your position, and claim it as the 'cause' - but it is not a cause, it is an effect. If you're going to constantly pontificate on the economy, and claim to know the 'cause', at least educate yourself in the simple law of supply and demand. Whatever your stance, you should understand this simple concept before making such emphatic statements all the time.
_____________________
Whitey Nabob
Registered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 16
Over and over
06-11-2006 05:27
It seems people are telling the same things over and over again.
Yes stipends are payedd for by buying a premium account and the cost is roughly the same as buying the lindens would have been.

Actually you earn a little owning a premium account.
And that money goes to supporting Linden Labs who is running a buisness with Second Life and needs to pay wages servers etc.
The main income naturally goes to Linden Labs as it should since they keep the place up.

Still the only people upset over the stipend is the ones making money in SL wanting to earn more real dollars by selling their Linden.
Still there is a maximum limit of cost since the Linden labs sell Linden as well at a fixed rate. If the price drops lower than that people is buying form other users selling at cheaper rate and when that rate is bought up the price go up.
Still if you sell your lindens at higher price than the LindenLab you will need to wait a long time to sell it.

And the reason the Linden value has dropped is due to dwell being lowered and the annying campingchairs casinos being gone.
Miracuolously a lot of the casino owners removed the chairs sold everything they had including land and then put up their linden on the market at cheap prices since everything they used Second Life for was making money.
When that money is bought the rates will go up again.

And removing the stipend for paying accounts
then I think I'll downgrate to basic again since I don't see owning land as that much fun.
And I think a lot other premium ones will think the same.
No income for Linden Labs no wages no employees no servers no second life.
Geee. It seems removing the stipends will mean the doom of Second Life.
The horror the humanity. (insert sarcastic voice since irony doesnt do well in writing)

If your own stipend enrages you so much then get a money tree and give it away to newbies and basic accounters each month instead.
Noone forces you to keep the money.
Then again making Lindens to sell for real dollars on the market is what this thread is about isn't it?

And the only people pissed is those jealouse of Anshe Chung who made it quite well in SecondLife earning a lot real money.

And making SecondLife it's own economy is ridiculous.
There is no political parties in Second Life.
There is no taxes there is no wellfare.
Second Lifes economy is connected to the outside world.
So it doesnt matter how much you want to change it.
If you want to change is so badly then earn real life money and buy Linden Labs.
But maybe making real life money is too hard for you not having the ease of selling stuff in Second Life.

Finally I think I will now go and talk to some friend because thats my greatest joy in SecondLife socialicing and talking to friends.

PS. Pardon my bad english in this post. English is not my first language. DS
Meaghan Winthorpe
~ Ravenhearts ~
Join date: 5 Mar 2006
Posts: 50
I want my Stipends
06-11-2006 05:28
I want my stipends. I am a shopoholic and I pay my partner to stay out of trouble!! If you don't want stipends then go create a new basic account. I am not sure what happens if you revert back to a basic account. I pay for these stipends and I damn well don't want them to end!!
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-11-2006 05:29
From: Lewis Nerd
I certainly think that there's a basis for when you reach a certain level in game you no longer receive all or any of the stipend - I mean, a big player cashing out $1000 a month on Lindex isn't going to notice not having a stipend, whereas someone like me who rely on the stipend to sustain their creativity in the absence of customers will notice - and suffer.


So you get to keep the stipend you pay LL for, but someone else shouldn't because they make more? Why should they not also get what they paid for? If you're going to say, "I pay for my stipend", then you have to acknowledge that others did also, and are just as entitled to get what they paid for, regardless of income.
_____________________
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-11-2006 05:37
From: Meaghan Winthorpe
I want my stipends. I am a shopoholic and I pay my partner to stay out of trouble!! If you don't want stipends then go create a new basic account. I am not sure what happens if you revert back to a basic account. I pay for these stipends and I damn well don't want them to end!!


And what if you weren't paying for them? By which I mean, what if LL, after all current agreements are concluded, no longer charged you that portion of the premium fee that pays for the stipend? You could still purchase your own stipend from the Lindex, and not be out of pocket. Would that really be so bad?
_____________________
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-11-2006 05:40
From: Lina Pussycat
Actually it makes perfect sense and anyone claiming anti-stipends is not thinking of the good of the many as opposed to the good of the few. Thats quite a simple fact.


That would be an opinion, not a fact.
_____________________
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
06-11-2006 06:11
From: Fade Languish
No. No matter how many times people repeat this, this is just not so. If supply did not outweigh demand, then they wouldn't have to 'undercut' to make a sale. There are more Lindens being offered for sale than people are buying, therefore to make sure yours get sold, you have to compete on price.


Then the problem is, as I have often said, the sellers.

The problem being too many people trying to use a computer game as an income, and putting themselves into unsustainable situations that they can't afford without selling money on Lindex to pay for it.

Despite the claims, Second Life is not a sustainable platform for a regular income. Even the frequently showcased biggest player fails to pay bills on time occasionally, and is suffering the pinch as she slowly realises that things aren't always rosey. If you want to make a little extra money from your talents, then that's one thing... to expect to make $1000 a month, month after month, is nothing but abject stupidity.

Unfortunately, Linden Labs promote this fallacy by their one track advertising, and it's failing. Yes, failing. The population rockets yet online players remains fairly static, and unless they do something fast, there won't be a Second Life for anyone to play.

Removing stipends is not the solution. It's retention of players that is needed - and as long as they promote a fake economy, and there is nothing done against object/texture theft, griefers and the rampant low level of morality here, nothing is going to improve.

Do you honestly think Phillip Linden cares about any of this or any of us? Because I'm beginning to think that as soon as SL folds, he'll just go on and find another project to make money on.

We're beta testers, lab rats, and paying a lot of money for the privilege.

Lewis
_____________________
Second Life Stratics - your new premier resource for all things Second Life. Free to join, sign up today!

Pocket Protector Projects - Rosieri 90,234,84 - building and landscaping services
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-11-2006 06:50
From: Lewis Nerd
Then the problem is, as I have often said, the sellers.


So, having been shown why it's not the sellers for the reason you claimed, it is the sellers for another reason now.

From: Lewis Nerd
The problem being too many people trying to use a computer game as an income, and putting themselves into unsustainable situations that they can't afford without selling money on Lindex to pay for it.


It's not all people trying to make RL incomes. It's also people realising more ambitious feats of imagination, sustained, at least in part, by their SL businesses. The world would be much more mediocre if this was not possible.

From: Lewis Nerd
Despite the claims, Second Life is not a sustainable platform for a regular income.


Says who? Lewis Nerd? Based on what? You need more than "Anshe failed to pay her bill once" to make that claim. How did you arrive at this conclusion with such certainty?

From: Lewis Nerd
Do you honestly think Phillip Linden cares about any of this or any of us? Because I'm beginning to think that as soon as SL folds, he'll just go on and find another project to make money on.

We're beta testers, lab rats, and paying a lot of money for the privilege.


So you know Philip Linden? You can testify in some way to his character? Why should I adopt such a negative outlook?

You claim it's a problem because people "are using a computer game as an income". What made you think it's a game? Why should it conform to your idea of how a game should be played?

From the front page of the website:

"What is Second Life?

Second Life is a 3-D virtual world entirely built and owned by its residents. Since opening to the public in 2003, it has grown explosively and today is inhabited by over 200,000 people from around the globe.
  1. From the moment you enter the World you'll discover a vast digital continent, teeming with people, entertainment, experiences and opportunity. Once you've explored a bit, perhaps you'll find a perfect parcel of land to build your house or business.
  2. You'll also be surrounded by the Creations of your fellow residents. Because residents retain the rights to their digital creations, they can buy, sell and trade with other residents.
  3. The Marketplace currently supports millions of US dollars in monthly transactions. This commerce is handled with the in-world currency, the Linden dollar, which can be converted to US dollars at several thriving online currency exchanges."

No mention of a game. It's described as a virtual world. They talk about an economy. Could it be you, who is not using SL as it was intended? How can you dictate how people should 'play the game', when it doesn't purport in any way to be a game? What on earth made you think you were paying for a game? Certainly nothing on their website.

The fact that your whole argument hinges on your belief it is a game, invalidates your argument, simply because, you have nothing to back up your claim that it is a game. It's a world. That's what was advertised to you. That's certainly what I signed on for.

It's a world. Therefore, people can do whatever one does in a world. Including make money.
_____________________
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
06-11-2006 07:14
Incidentally, for all those saying things like SL will die without stipends, people will leave, no-one will buy anything...

Have a dig in the archives. Look up threads around the time the ratings bonus went the way of the dodo. People were saying the very same things then. They read exactly like a stipend thread today, same arguments. And look, we're all still here. In fact, there's more of us.
_____________________
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
06-11-2006 07:47
From: Fade Languish
The fact that your whole argument hinges on your belief it is a game, invalidates your argument, simply because, you have nothing to back up your claim that it is a game. It's a world. That's what was advertised to you. That's certainly what I signed on for.


That's your problem, not mine.

Anyone with half an ounce of intelligence knows that for everyone who is here making money, that money has to come into the game by other people spending it - and the natural extrapolation of that is that there is no guarantee that you will be one of the lucky ones who makes any money.

The term "platform" is so ambiguous that you might as well call it a game. I don't care what you or Phillip Linden call it - the advertising is why SL is failing. We hear all sorts of crap about "3D web" and other meaningless terms that nobody can explain the meaning of, purpose for, or use of - that's not what will attract people, and that's why people aren't staying.

Most of the 'big names' here who make money out of SL are doing it for the money, not because they love SL. Frankly I don't think the game would be worse off without them, because they only have their profit in mind, rather than the general good of the population.

Money brings out the worst in people. It brings out greed. It's why they resell other people's work (I saw a box this morning of vehicles for L$2000 that you can get at Yadni's for L$1) and it's why people don't socialise.

Except for a few of us, who keep SL in its right perspective. We'll still be here having fun long after all the capitalists have deserted SL because they aren't making enough money any more.

Lewis
_____________________
Second Life Stratics - your new premier resource for all things Second Life. Free to join, sign up today!

Pocket Protector Projects - Rosieri 90,234,84 - building and landscaping services
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
06-11-2006 07:48
From: Fade Languish
In fact, there's more of us.


Rubbish. 4000 players out of 100,000 is a bigger percentage than 5000 out of 200,000 players.

Proportionally, the online percentage at any given time is falling, and continues to fall.

Lewis
_____________________
Second Life Stratics - your new premier resource for all things Second Life. Free to join, sign up today!

Pocket Protector Projects - Rosieri 90,234,84 - building and landscaping services
Hunter Parks
Mr. Morgan
Join date: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 53
06-11-2006 08:22
From: Lina Pussycat
Actually no hunter its not based of bids and offers at all for you to buy straight up you buy L at a set value otherwise you wait for your order to be filled. The part that is fundamentally flawed is being able to buy straight up which is what people use more often.


Actually, if I'm not mistaken, buying 'straight up' as you refer amounts to nothing more than a market order. You are paying whatever the lowest priced 'offer' is, which is set by the traders. I don't believe it's at a price set by LL.

-Hunter
_____________________
"It's not who dies with the most toys, it's who dies with the most friends!"
Hunter Parks
Mr. Morgan
Join date: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 53
06-11-2006 08:32
From: Fade Languish
Incidentally, for all those saying things like SL will die without stipends, people will leave, no-one will buy anything...

Have a dig in the archives. Look up threads around the time the ratings bonus went the way of the dodo. People were saying the very same things then. They read exactly like a stipend thread today, same arguments. And look, we're all still here. In fact, there's more of us.


Fade, I agree with one stipulation...When you say "And look, we're all still here" this is obviously true, but we're still here in a declining economic atmosphere where nobody, including LL, has a clue what to do about it. Yes, we are all ranting dependant on our own reasons, but we do have a problem.
I agree, this is a 'virtual world'. I make houses that I build with virtual prims and sell for virtual dollars, but I convert those virtual dollars to real USD to pay my tier and fees. This in-world economy must still mirror a real-world economy, at least in theory.

-Hunter
_____________________
"It's not who dies with the most toys, it's who dies with the most friends!"
Hunter Parks
Mr. Morgan
Join date: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 53
06-11-2006 08:43
From: Lewis Nerd
Most of the 'big names' here who make money out of SL are doing it for the money, not because they love SL. Frankly I don't think the game would be worse off without them, because they only have their profit in mind, rather than the general good of the population.


Lewis, why such a negative attitude?

Sony takes your money when you buy a new TV, but you get hours of enjoyment from it. Don't you see the two go hand-in-hand? People will always profit from providing what people want. It's the oldest profession in the world.
I sell a virtual house for profit, and the people that buy that house get hours of enjoyment from it. I build my houses with the general good of the population in mind. Please don't include me in that broad opinion.

-Hunter
_____________________
"It's not who dies with the most toys, it's who dies with the most friends!"
Ange Augustus
Registered User
Join date: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 13
Exactly why I created SecondLifeJobs.com
06-11-2006 08:45
Hello,

Both sides in this on going debate are correct and we can do something about the situation. Create jobs for the entry level SLer's. This is exactly why I created www.SecondLifeJobs.com - it is free to both job seekers and creators.

I will be adding an education center for people to develop their skills for a nominal fee as well as free basic classes. Let's use our imaginations and look at this problem as an opportunity. Spread the word about the jobsite and help fill it with jobs / content.

Stipends do not work in the real world either, but there are a lot of people that would not be able to even live (or participate in the case of SL) if it were not for a check from the govn't. Subsidies are usually a much better form of growth stimulation, maybe SL should offer higher stipends to those creating jobs.

SL can be both a business and enjoyable "social platform" my parting words are to look at the problem differently and do something about it. Create jobs for SLer's that are fun and allow people to do what they want to do rather than what they have to do in meatspace...

Ange Augustus
http://www.SecondLifeJobs.com
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
06-11-2006 08:45
From: Hunter Parks
I sell a virtual house for profit, and the people that buy that house get hours of enjoyment from it. I build my houses with the general good of the population in mind. Please don't include me in that broad opinion.


Without wishing it to come across wrong, I'm not including you in the "big names" - these are the people who cash out thousands of dollars each and every month that I see as the problem here.

People often confuse truth and honesty with 'negativity' ... don't worry, you aren't the first and you certainly won't be the last, sadly.

Lewis
_____________________
Second Life Stratics - your new premier resource for all things Second Life. Free to join, sign up today!

Pocket Protector Projects - Rosieri 90,234,84 - building and landscaping services
Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
06-11-2006 09:40
From: Kyrah Abattoir
until LL change the ToS


Nope, LL advertised the lifetime account with 500L a week as a feature and that constitutes an open contract which Magnum accepted.

To change the contract from the original advertised would be in violation of both advertising and contract laws. Magnum could sue for breach of contract and/or he could report LL for false advertisement to both the state and the feds.

LL does not want the state and feds to be looking at SL too closely.
Star Sleestak
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2006
Posts: 228
06-11-2006 10:59
From: Fade Languish
No. No matter how many times people repeat this, this is just not so. If supply did not outweigh demand, then they wouldn't have to 'undercut' to make a sale. There are more Lindens being offered for sale than people are buying, therefore to make sure yours get sold, you have to compete on price.

If demand exceeded supply, you would see people doing the opposite, holding out for a better price. They wouldn't need to undercut, their orders would be getting filled anyway. Whatever your position on the stipend, supply exceeding demand is the reason for L$ devaluation, there's no escaping that.

You (and others) choose this simplistic argument to justify your position, and claim it as the 'cause' - but it is not a cause, it is an effect. If you're going to constantly pontificate on the economy, and claim to know the 'cause', at least educate yourself in the simple law of supply and demand. Whatever your stance, you should understand this simple concept before making such emphatic statements all the time.


However stipends were in place when you invested in the world, no? And they used to be based upon ratings which made them much higher than now. But the L$ has been dropping, despite everything. If stipends are the problem, why didn't everyone hold off on investing until they were removed?

Frankly, the demand is down because people are not logging on to SL. No matter what the population numbers say, the actual log ins are dropping. People who do not play SL will not buy from the Lindex. Period.

Sales and marketing 101:

Selling anything goes like this:

You will have 10% who will always buy, no matter what.

You will have 10% who will never buy, no matter what.

The trick is to get the other 80% to buy.

You will not get them to buy by cutting off something that they've already contracted for, that will just make them angry and give any potential customers the idea that contracts with LL are not to be trusted so they leave without spending at all. Get that out of your head right now the notion that by forcing LL to cut stipends people will buy; they will not. People will pay higher prices for goods and services from people that are perceived as trustworthy. This is the idea behind "branding". That generic cola has the same formula as Coke and Pepsi and tastes the same, but people will pay more for Coke and Pepsi because they trust the brands.

If you want people to spend, you must assure that contracts (and that includes advertisements) are honored. Lose the customer's trust and you've lost the customer.

You will not get them to buy if you talk about other things that they spend money on like movies, barhopping, et. While it is frustrating to know that the person who is balking at dropping 5USD to buy some L$ is the same person who casually puts down the same 5USD to buy some old movie on DVD at Walmart's on a whim and only watch it once, talking about it seems like criticism and people do not like to be criticized on how to spend their money. Marriages break up over this issue. And if someone is willing to leave their spouse over it, what chance do you have?

Instead of focussing on the other things people buy, focus on why they should buy from you.

You will not get them to buy if you respond to "buyer's resistance" by calling them liars and maggots. That just makes them dig in their heels. When they say, "I can't afford it", the proper response is to change the offer. I would go with same price, lower amount. "I understand that your budget is tight but if you find yourself with a couple of extra dollars why don't you think about treating yourself?" will get you more buys than, "People who say they can't spend $10 on Lindex are liars and maggots."

Instead of insulting people because they are resistant, because everybody has buyer's resistance (including you), work around it.

Don't talk about your time and how valuable it is. Don't whine about your efforts or your talent and how you are underpaid for them. Don't bitch and moan because you are paying tier on a bunch of islands. No one cares! Nobody made you download the program, log on, upload stuff, buy islands, et. You did this of your own free will. And no one owes you anything. LL specifically tells you not to expect renumeration for content. And customers do not owe you a buy. This is how the real world works. I'm guessing from your posts that most if not all of you do not have sales nor marketing experience. If you work for a company, your talents, skills, time, et are being marketed and sold for you; no one just buys them. It's just that other people are selling hard so you don't have to.

No one cares about how much time, effort, et went into your product or making your L$; they just want to know how it will benefit them.

In conclusion, to market and sell, you must give the customer a reason to buy. Features, advantages, and benefits or FAB will get more customers.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7