Possible solution to the Sim sales issue.

The ideal scenario for protecting financial privacy is for Linden Lab to introduce a payment gateway where an account could be paid for services from your SL account (for example, the way they have handled the ebay auctions for sponsored links). This would protect the privacy of both parties, and provide a mechanism for players to comfortably enter into these types of transactions without having to worry about the risks of Paypal or revealing more RL information than you are comfortable with, just to buy land.

Interesting idea Cris, one deserving a new thread...

I want to thank the many people who contributed constructively and motivated by true concerns about the issue. These are most people who posted here, including most people who had very different point of view than my own.

However...



I believe your statement, given your particular history with my person, Merwan, would be more honest if posted like this:



I still remember your endless praise for one other group of residents, who are your friends and shall remain unnamed here, when they opened their zoned sim and started selling land deeds to people, in one very similar fashion to what I am doing now on larger scale. All the issues of safety, transparency, indirect vs direct dealing with Linden Lab and so on and so forth did not concern you even the slightest when it was your friends doing it. But now all of one sudden, not since SL 1.6 patch but since I have been successful with it, they seem of paramount concern to you.

Sometimes even the most intelligent and eloquent people can have the most despiceable agendas.

This is one good suggestion. Does anybody know what the legal implications of this would be for one company like Linden Lab? Could this work or be big hazzle?

I would appreciate you explaining what/who you are referring to. I have no idea and to accuse me of having or possibly of having "...the most despicable agenda.", suggests you provide the facts you are referring to.

Please let me know either here or via. PM.

How about:

Land Sales (Linden Labs), as before.
Land Resales (Private Sim Owners)

This is consistent with, and perfectly analogous to, "selling" and "reselling" of web hosting.

The only difference is that with web hosting, you rarely know whether you are dealing with a seller or reseller.

my noob cents,
-nim

It's been a couple days Anshe and I would appreciate you explaining what/who you are referring to. I have no idea and to accuse me of having or possibly of having "...the most despicable agenda.", necessitates you provide the facts you're referring to.

What group? What SiM? What friends of mine?

If your information is true, I will apologize to you for my hypocrisy.

_/_/_/

Merwin not to let it bother you you know and many others know what you've done for this game and the focused effort to discredit you after she bought your interest in slexchange just didn't work. Seems when she is discovered again manipulating the game tools and is called on it she resorts to falsely accusing others rather than dealing with her stuff.

I sent you PM.

This REALLY worries me.
A proposal to completely change the name of what we have always called "Land Sales", or else pretend these two different things are the same.

This is the nub of my objections. Anshe wants to battle over the possession of the words "Land Sales". If she can't have them, we can't. She wants the word "tier" too. We can all see why it matters to her. It'll confuse the newbies. I really don't understand why else she should care what it's called? If its good, and it can be listed, it'll sell, whatever it's called in the list.

Purely as a PRACTICAL matter, these two things MUST be called something different, for everybody's protection. Forget subtle arguments about the nature of the transaction.

The difference lies in who you'll be dealing with. It's a HUGE difference. Don't assume it'll be Anshe.

Can you tell us, please, ANSHE ?
WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT ITS CALLED ? Don't you see its a PRACTICAL matter, not philosophical ?

And WHY ON EARTH does everyone keep talking about AnsheLand ?
As though there will be no other.

We are trying to decide how to handle the wide range of offerings which will appear from other people. Everybody must be treated the same. We'll be offered "free land", "no tier", "balloon lease", "hire purchase", "single payment for a year's possession" etc etc soon.

All these offers must receive fair and equal treatment and access to advertising, and must be categorized under a single name, indicating their fundamental nature. That you are trusting, and obeying, someone other than the company - an anonymous player.

PLEASE STOP POSTING AS THOUGH THIS IS ONLY ABOUT ANSHE AND HER CURRENT OFFERING. HOW IT IS HANDLED WILL RELATE TO EVERYBODY WHO DOES THIS.

THIS is whats begining to worry ME.
"despiceable agendas" ?
Yet another posting from anshe containing personal accusations and demonstrating feelings of being persecuted.

Not good, in view of the trust she is asking us to place in her, and the power she's developing.

And WHY ON EARTH does everyone keep talking about AnsheLand ?
As though there will be no other.

We are trying to decide how to handle the wide range of offerings which will appear from other people. Everybody must be treated the same. We'll be offered "free land", "no tier", "balloon lease", "hire purchase", "single payment for a year's possession" etc etc soon.

All these offers must receive fair and equal treatment and access to advertising, and must be categorized under a single name, indicating their fundamental nature. That you are trusting, and obeying, someone other than the company - an anonymous player.

PLEASE STOP POSTING AS THOUGH THIS IS ONLY ABOUT ANSHE AND HER CURRENT OFFERING. HOW IT IS HANDLED WILL RELATE TO EVERYBODY WHO DOES THIS.

Jesus, would you stop screaming in all caps? Everybody long since got your point.

What is your purpose in continuing to church on this issue?

There aren't any other players offering this type of thing EXCEPT Nexus and Adam from what I can tell. So it's reasonable to be talking about Anshe, and she's the one who just took a huge hit in her business over this hue and cry, and thie second-guessing about the land lits.

You cannot possibly know that, Prok, unless you just mean whats being offered this very day. Basing your arguments on invented facts.

My motivation is threefold, straightforward and clearly stated elsewhere, as you well know. Search on "threefold".

I will continue to "church" until I am satisfied that Newbies will be adequately helped to distinguish between trusting and obeying another anonymous player, and trusting and obeying LL (which they have to do to be here).

I want them to learn this BEFORE they are sucked into the easily-overwhelming sales pitch.

If you are right (and you may be) that there will be only two or three players in this new land business, that itself is cause for concern. The "trust barrier" is a big hurdle to entry, much more difficult than getting into ordinary land-baronry.

Why have you quoted me in BOLD, Prok ?
Very rarely seen.

To try to make it look as though I WAS screaming ?
I did not post in bold. I was not screaming.

There was some emphasis, expressing exasperation at the way everyone keeps ignoring the wider issues, and talking about one offering as though its the only one, or as though all others will be similar.

Invented? LOL. I scroll down the land list like anybody else following the land list. I look at the classifieds. Nope, don't see any like what Adam and Anshe are offering.


No, it's just a repeated bleating of bah, bah, bah to landowners and a promotion of yourself as Jiminy Cricket without *ever* explaining the WHY and the WHO ARE YOU part.



So far, Lindar, the only "anonymous player" I see in this equation is YOU with your March 2005 birthdate and your 16k.



Sucked? When they can't right-click and buy? When it says IM Anshe?

If they went to the other putative anonymous bad guys and clicked...they wouldn't be able to buy either? And if they did buy and get defrauded, they'll file an abuse report to the Lindens. If there are enough of these, the Lindens will ban them -- I think systematic fraud

And how to compensate those poor bilked newbies? The Lindens can't be expected to do anything. They could seize the assets of the fraudster and redistribute it to the bilked newbs but I'm not sure they'll take it on. So you, with your purchasing power for 13 sims, could start a Newbie Compensation Fund. I look forward to hearing the terms of your Compensation Commission since you seem so torqued about this issue.



Yeah. And YOU just made sure that YOUR competition stays very thin, if you get into this business (is that maybe because you're blaze's alt, perhaps?) Bah to that. Honestly, you don't get it -- you keep spitting into the well, but then you'll have to drink from it.

I believe it's important to keep coming back and telling you where to get off -- which is right here. You've done enough to churn up hatred and spite against the land barons for one week, now give it a rest. You've done enough to roil and despoil the market -- possibly so that you yourself can take advantage of it? How are we to know? You've done enough to contribute to the climate of fear and uncertainty. Now give yourself a well-deserved rest.

Lindar, you will find the forums much more productive and pleasant if you were to put a certain someone on ignore, its made my forum reading and posting a much more pleasant experience

I was trying to resist that, Toy, but very sadly, I think you may be right.
Oh dear.

You all putting me on ignore is the greatest thing since cream cheese, you don't intervene in debates with extraneous and vituperative remarks anymore and it leaves the way clear to have serious debates.

What I read here, you are saying that Anshe wants to call them the same thing so that it won't confuse the newbies. You don't want them confused right? You've been arguing that through all of this..



And yet here, you want them to be called something different.. so you do want them confused? WHY? So that you can end up right after all? I thought confusion of the newbies was a bad thing???


You also say that what Anshe is doing is a bad thing because of the possibility of so many others following in her footsteps.. yet you also say this...




Why are you so worried that there will be more land barons on private sims, and yet are worried that there aren't that many?

Will you ever be hapy with any solution, or do you just like to make everyone elses game miserable by arguing with everyone, including yourself.


I myself am done with this whole debate. This has gone beyond being helpful to anyone...Perhaps if you really wanted to work on a solution you would spend more time creatively thinking, working towards a solution instead of just saying "I can't own all that land, so no one should be able to"


If anyone wishes to discuss this inworld (a big thank you for your politeness and concern to the one who has messaged *hugs*) please feel free to do so.. This arguing and flaring tempers is not how I choose to spend my day. My day online which is supposed to be pleasant.. after all that's why we're here right?


Good evening everyone...have a great night...

Hi Alysa

You completely misread your first quote, taking it to mean the opposite of what it means to me, even on re-reading. Thats why it appeared inconsistent.

I have obviously annoyed you, Alysa, and I'm really sorry. I absolutely agree, however significant I may think naming and categorising things can be in avoiding confusion, I have flogged it quite enough. We'll leave it to the Lindens.

You are also absolutely right that we now need constructive and positive suggestions.
If you can bear any more of my spouting, here mine are:

/130/97/44951/1.html.

I promise I don't mention what things are called, even once.

Anshe, I have a question, and I'll ask it here as good a place as any other.

Where is Blue Burke? Originally, in your early talk and early public ads about your new planned residential communities, you mentioned that you had a joint project with Blue Burke. I remember thinking it was interesting that 2 big land barons were cooperating on this important venture, and wondering how it would work.

Now Blue Burke has disappeared. He's not in your ads. He's not in the forums in this discussion. He's not listed anywhere in the literature. Did he drop out?

Is he on the forums as an alt now churning up the discussion in some other direction?

Oh, I think this is some confusion. Blue always did his thing and I did mine, but we had sims next to each other for some time to see how that works. But we figured it is kinda cumbersome when you have one continent with more than one owner. For example when some griefer showed up, Blue could ban on his sims but the griefer would still enter via my sims until I got online to ban there too. Things also grew kinda big, so we figured out the current setup that seem a lot easier to handle

Its a Conspiracy, its all designed to crush you...................lmao. Just kidding. Watch who you call a "land Baron" you hypocrite. Ashes correct. We do often talk about eachothers plans as I value her opinion. I have several people I do this with, nothing wrong with the opinions of successfull people when making big decisions. In the case of "AnsheLand" I think her starting it off located next to my already existing well traveled sims was a smart idea and benefited both of us and the vendors in my malls there.