An Out of Control Situation.

I say go for it. It's not like the police of "their" world give a shit any longer. If you get any backlash say "free expression" and you're untouchable.

The worst that will happen is you'll be given a three day suspension and be told to remove your "prims of living hell". Hmm, wow a three day suspension from land you can't use anyway because some carpetbagger with Linden inspired L$ signs in his eyes doesn't realize that camping chairs on his bitty plot won't bring the fame and fortune expected. Total bummer.

To the best of my knowledge, you have to be a repeat, repeat, offender, and/or intentionally crash the grid to get banned from SL. I might go buy a chunk over there just for kicks and a reason to log in before the next "improvement" patch.

I don't know that their efforts to contact and work with the casino WERE rebuffed and/or ignored. Do you have some facts to add to this part of the thread? So far all we know about that for sure is the vague mention that one attempt was made to contact the casino, and that the casino has not yet responded. We don't know anything about the context of this correspondance either. Based on the content of this thread though, the correspondance may have been less than polite (as long as we're making assumptions ).

Frankly I wouldn't respond either if I saw this thread. In fact, I'd probably add some extra chairs!

If anyone is familiar with shared website hosting then you know how they work it. The situation here is not all that different. With a shared hosting plan you share the server with however many people they let on the server. If anyone on that server is using the majority of the resources and bogging down everyone elses sites then that person is shut down or whatever scripts or content causing the issue is disabled.

I am not sure why LL dosn't take the same approch on these sims as they are hosted on a server that everyone in the sim uses and PAYS for. Everyone should get smooth service no matter what has to be turned off or shut down.

How neighborly of you.

I just checked it out, it looks like you are fuxx0red, Mr. 1024 has multiple parcels in that sim so the best you'd do is wind up playing a long, useless, game of whack-a-mole if you tried. I also realized that you cannot make a sim unpalatable to camper as zombies don't care what a place is like so long as the chairs pay out.

Just follow the Linden Plan To Happier Living® and buy your own sim. Did you hear they are unveiling their new motto soon: "why pay us $10/month when you can pay us $200/month"? Kinda catchy, I think.

Oh, I did bump into a store called "Picture This" on my way in that looked like it could have been cool if it rezzed.

I am sure you find yourself highly amusing... but you dodged my question... let's try it in a different form then:

Let's say Loniki and I opened a shop near your business in your sim (work with me and let's say there was a 512 or 1024 for sale there and we grabbed it, ok?). We set up a huge bunch of camping chairs and drag your sim down to where you can barely move in it. What are you going to do now? Move? Sell everything and start over elsewhere?

Yes I have wondered a lot lately if this is the reason the Lindens turn a blind eye to this sort of activity - it drives people to buy island sims.

That does sound like a catchy motto!

It is this thread and the sense of entitlement which is oooooozing from it that I find amusing.

How many times does this SAME THREAD of conversation need to be repeated over and over and over?

"I have a right to control the view as far as my virtual eyes can see, but I only want to pay $10/mo".

"I have a right to decide who uses what CPU resources in the sim, but I only want to pay $20/mo".

Well, if it is as you say, and you really have tried to work with this guy, it seems that your neighbor suffers from the same entitlement issues. He ALSO feels that he has a right to decide who uses what CPU resources in your sim, but only wants to pay for a fraction of the land. (That is assuming you've actually tried in good faith to work it out. You have utterly FAILED to address any concerns that you may not have tried adequately, OR that you may not have made a polite, curteous, good faith effort to come to a solution.)

This is a dispute between neighbors. You should work it out, move past your joint entitlement issues, and become good neighbors. Who knows, you may even make a friend!

If you can't work it out, and you still both feel entitled to all of the resources, you should find a new sim that suits your purposes better. Maybe an island would be best for both you and your neighbor.

This absolutely DOES NOT belong in a public forum. It is clearly an attempt to discredit someone. You have even gone as far as to send people to the location. I'd love to see a reply from the casino owner here. It would be great to hear their side of the dispute also.



Yes.

I couldn't get into the sim again tonight and contacted live help. Quick as a wink, boom, the entire sim was reset and bye bye afk campers. It was a magnificent thing to watch and I was assured this is going to be changing. It will be interesting to see where the top places of interest really are in SL when these dwell exploiters are history. I will also be gladly inconvienced if any of my fellow residents are unable to enter the sim and it has to be reset. Everyone who has land in a sim is entitled to basic rights of land ownership and no one land owner has the right to take the right away from others with exploitive measures meant to increase their dwell. As Shaun has said earlier- if you want to dominate all the resources in a sim, you have to buy your own sim.

And thank you Shaun for your arm chair opinions of this thread and the people who have posted. I will do you a favor though and not repeat to you comments made to me by others regarding opinions of you.

This is not an argument between neighbors. This is about exploitation of a sytem for the benefit of making money with no regards to others and doing it all by script so you don't have to stand there being held accountable.

This is about making a sham out of the Popular Places list and totally negating the efforts of people who have actually worked hard to be on that list legitimately. This is about ATK people being unable to play their game and enjoy their land because of AFKers.

I can't understand how anyone could come here and defend these exploiters unless they are one themself and want to "spin" BS here. I know for a fact that most people know these practices are wrong. Telling someone to move because they have a exploitive neighbor is the biggest load of BS I have read here today.

This isn't a dispute, it is a tragedy of the commons, there is no other side of the story and one needn't see it in the forums - a quick look at the map will show you 40 AVs piled up in one bitty corner of the sim. Go to that zombie-fest and you'll find no activity; is it a casino if no one is playing the few machines that are there?

I'm not real sure of the name since I just went for a look, but one of the camping chairs was occupied by something like "ImALousy Freeloader (AWAY)" who had earned a whole L$3 according to the chair. That's almost like US$0.01, of course they get more than their "fair" share of the egress bandwidth because of the dancepads, and we know LL doesn't pay anything for that.

If LL wanted to stop losing money so rapidly, they might consider terminating the zombielands with extreme prejudice, but of course that's way too proactive for the "old LL". Maybe after the recent layoff things might change there.

There isn't much new under the sun - the self same problems happened under 1.0 when I joined with prims.

There were no prim limits tied to land - only 10$ per prim charged and a $1 tax per prim per week.

Starting out I bought land to accomodate the size of the building I wanted to make - and slowly worked on it.. soon though folks would see that prims were at 'half way' and start rezzing them like crazy and hiding them.. so the sim was maxxed on prims.

You couldn't build anything - you couldn't rez anything.

You'd log in and wait around till the bar turned green and quickly rez a few prims. Then folks would 'preemptively' rez prims for 'when they wanted to build'

It sucked. Its the same thing.

If they could split server usage and script cycles to land - I'd support that too. Just as I support 'buy the view'.

You're welcome. These entitlement issues are important and I'm happy to help out where I can.



Would you say that you're more upset because the casino is using more than what you feel is their fair share of the sim's resourses, or because they may be making money doing it? Do you or someone you know happen to be just outside of the popular places list?



I'm not defending anyone. I don't wish to defend the state welfare system or those who exploit it to try to make an easy buck, and I wish YOU would stop trying to spin it that way to suit your purpose. I'm all for hard work and effort.

I'm speaking only for land owner's rights here. People have a right to live their second lives without fear of someone coming on some forum and sending a mob after them! You CHOSE to come to a public forum to discredit your neighbor.

Others are entitled to their opinions of your actions. Did you expect that everyone would agree that this is the right way to handle a sticky situation? As I've said, I'm sure that the casino feels just as entitled to server resources as you do.



I didn't tell you to move. Someone asked what I'd do. I said (in a nutshell) that I'd try to work it out with my neighbor, and that I would move if I couldn't accomplish this. I sure wouldn't be posting in public forums to try to sick a lynch mob on someone I didn't get along with! That's just me though, and I'm not trying to tell you what to do at all. It is clear that we have very different values and points of view. I just think that these mob rule tactics lack class.

Back along the lines of working things out though, you STILL haven't indicated if you've made any polite, persistant and REASONABLE effort to resolve this dispute without the aid of a lynch mob. Have you? If so, how? What was the outcome? Judging by the thread content, and the way that you and your friends ignore this point or only respond to it vaguely, I think it's pretty safe to draw some conclusions along these lines.

I'd really love to be wrong though! Please, what if anything have you done towards a peaceful resolution to this problem, prior to going to BOTH a public forum and live help to rally a mob?

Thanks to one of the posters in this thread for giving me insight into their persona (name withheld to protect the guilty as required by TOS)- wanders off to mute yet another forum troll

I am in no way trying to send a lynch mob after anyone. And I believe you are judging unfairly. Other then stating Yucca and a casino I have in no way even stated who is even involved with the camping chairs. I am not here to discredit anyones name....I am simply stating a fact that there is a problem with these objects in Yucca. I think you are misjudging Loniki and myself....We are not mean malicious people out to cause anyone trouble or loss and I am sure people who know us would agree....we are NICE PEOPLE. We are simply looking for a solution to this problem. Today Loniki could not get into the sim and my mate also could not enter on two different occasions...and he also owns land in Yucca. I dont care how much dwell they may or may not be getting....I dont care if they are number one on the popular list....But I do care its affecting my store and my ability to even enter my own home. Its not right when it is affecting our SL's. I can't speak for anyone else but I myself would love a peaceful ending to this situation.....I dont mind the casino is there....I dont even mind they have camping objects....but there should be a fair compromise to this. I love Yucca and really do not wish to leave there, all my friends are there....and my business which I have worked hard at to get it where it is. I should not have to move or buy my own island to enjoy this game. Can you even imagine how long it would take me to set my store up again that its usable.....not only that the traffic i have earned. I really think this post has gotten out of hand.....I am sure it was not loniki's intentions to have this be a debate.....just a simple wake up call to LL to somehow fix this so it stops in yucca and in other sims its affecting as well. I think we all deserve to be able to enjoy this game with the land we own. Imagine IRl if a business moves into your neighborhood and disrupts the entire town...what would you do? take it to town council right? I dont think we have done anything wrong by posting and it was not meant to be malicious or to entice others to seek out the casino. It was simply stating the problem we are facing in our lovely town.....

Someone will have to help me out here. I am in the sim in question right now, and the casino/camping thing is packed pretty full. Yet, I'm able to use the sim without much slowdown in my viewer. Is there some viewer setting I need to toggle in order to get this "sim totally unusable state", or is the casino just not quite as full as usual?

Lonoki I don't think you did a bad thing bringing this to the forums. I think your situation is worthy of discussion... to me, you described your individual situation to discuss a general issue. Re: 'sense of entitlement' - I think that if you pay for something, you should feel entitled to be able to use it. How is that unreasonable?

Well, let's see....

1. Tuesday nights are a historical nadir for activity
   
2. Three hours ago the sim was bumped logging all the zombies off and it may take days some human to notice that their mouse-jiggler isn't working any more
   
3. Some people will hang onto their point regardless of how daft it makes them look

Was that the help you were looking for?

Go there and look. There's a huge green block on the mini map where the casino is. It's pretty packed. The casino is off on an edge of the sim though. I don't know if this fact was what helped my viewer frame rate in the sim overall or not.

In a more central location a mall can be found filled with animated dance floors, lighting systems, particle systems, vendors, spinning signs up in mid-air, etc etc. I didn't notice a whole lot of viewer slowdown in this location either suprisingly.

There's nothing perticularly amazing about my PC, but neither the poster's mall nor the casino were making the sim unusable for me. The sim being usable or not was not my point though, it was just something I noticed when I went there to see this horror first hand.

It's also worth mentioning that this sim overall is far from being an attractive location. I guess the old saying is probably true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I suppose some people like sprawling commercialism with spinning signs (and some buildings if I remember right) floating in the air. The sim is definately worth a look though, IMHO, in order to judge this thread fairly. I was hoping to find some redeeming qualities that would make this thread worth reconsidering after reading the last post by the anti-casino sim residents. After a first hand look it still seems like a mob thread to me though.

I can promise you having been in the sim when the casino is fairly full 25+ people and a few others in sim a lot of things load slow. When the casino is packed and I have seen it full as I was in sim when it was full last night. Nothing was loading quick. Not even my clothing and normal gear. Right after the sim reset things loaded very fast. Within an hour the sim was starting to slow down again with 20+ people in the casino and about 5 in the rest of the sim. The sim did not have these issues before the casino even with a large club in there. The club caused lag when it was busy, but that was limited times. The casino is normally fairly packed and you can look at its dwell numbers to know that.

The complaint has to do with how the sim is being lagged up. I am sure that if the lag was a club that operated 2-3 times a week for limited time blocks in Yucca most of the owners in Yucca could handle that. Problem is that is not how the casino operates it is a 24/7 operation with no controls except to get LL to reboot server. I am sure if the casino even limited to 20 camp chairs the issue would not be this big of a headache.

You got quotas on prims, you oughta have quotas on avs.

1/16 sim or less ... max 10 avatars
1/8 sim or less ... max 15 avatars
1/4 sim or less ... max 20 avatars
1/2 sim or less ... max 30 avatars
whole sim ... max 40 avatars

Now your camping chair guy has to buy half the sim to get his lag on.

To be honest not sure what the fix is as limiting people over an exact area of land will cause a lot of coding and player issues. I know of some small clubs who have a lot of land but no where close to half a sim. I also know that those clubs can fill a sim, but that happens once or twice a week for 2-3 hours on average. Cutting the number that could be there would kill the clubs that are something other than goth and industrial music. Maybe there needs to be a traffic based cost. If your traffic exceeds X in 24 hours for Y amount of land in sim then you get charged Z amount instead of earning dwelling payments. That way you could likely control those places as they will not want traffic over a set amount as they will start losing money instead of making money.

I like Argent's idea. Or how about this idea? (Oh, this
might be really offensive to successful business owners.)
What if Dwell Bonuses (both daily and otherwise) were
awarded to entire sims rather than to individual land
owners? Like......the bonus for dwell in Yucca was shared
with all land owners in Yucca, proportional to the amount
of land each person owned.

That would completely disincentivize (is that a word?)
Mr. 1024 because he would only get a teeny tiny fraction
of the Dwell Bonus he was generating for all his neighbors
in Yucca. It would also raise the real estate value of land
near popular places, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad
thing, would it?

I haven't really thought this argument through very well.
Was just passing through forums and got engrossed in
the thread because I enjoyed the banter. You may now
commence ripping my idea to shreds.

Problem is, the above strategy could be gamed just as easily as the event calendar is. 1/16 sim or less gets max 10 avatars you say? What would prevent someone from parceling their plot into a mass of 256m plots, each now able to hold 10 avatars?

Likewise, say a sim is owned by 16 people, each with 1/16 sim. At 10 avatars each, that makes for a total of 160 avatars in the sim. Holy lagfest, Batman!

I'm not a fan of hard sim-entry quotas, myself. Possibly a solution might be to allow a certain amount of 'overflow' avatars to teleport into a sim, based upon parcel size. That way, no one is completely locked out of their parcel because of their neighbor.

In terms of script CPU-utiliziation, however - I definately think that should be tied to parcel size in some way.

I can't say I like Stonecutter's idea as it would kill some very nice places, but your idea of everyone getting the dwell payment would likely work as it would sure kill the camp chair camps except in sims where those groups control most of the land as the last thing they want is to lose the payments. As I have decided they are the credit farmers of SL. So your idea would work nicely. I know some would hate it, but the people with good biz models don't need the dwell to make Lindens.