WARNING,WARNING, stop selling at the market now

When the limit buy orders were first instituted and all the day traders came into the LindeX there was L$2 million offered to buy at or below L$350/1. Today there is none because the day traders are out of tier and scrambling to increase it. If the next L$2 million is snapped up as fast as the last was the last seller will get an exchange rate of L$48000 / US$1.00. You have been warned do not come on the forum and complain. Stop selling market sell orders now. If you want to sell fast just issue a limit sell like you always did.

EXCELENT POST! This needs to be on the front page of the Lindex exchange when the best buy offer hits a certain percentage under the Limit Sell.

P.S. As soon as i get home, I will transfer some money into a friend's account and trade with that (should last for three days or so apparently). Hopefully I can keep the Buy Orders at a non-noob-killing level.

Honestly LL just need to pull limit buy and they need to re-evaluate the interface for how its working because what they came up with has *NOT* worked, and has significantly destabilized things further.

There is no way buy orders can come anywhere close to filling 'sell now' demand and people are going to loose their shirts 'selling now' to buy orders 1/10th the value they should be getting.

Of note is that the 'simple' sell now is the only option available to people on the basic interface, that has to change.

Badly done all around, the idea is not terrible (tho not necessarily good) but the implementation we've seen did not 'fit' the bill, and alot of small sellers who do not use the advanced market views and will be seeing only the quickie, are going to get ripped a new one (along with the rest of the economy)

All I can do is get to the ones who do read it. The current limit buy offer is L$358/1 which will yield an effective rate of L$370/1 and sellers can currently place limit sell orders at L$330/1 and get them executed today.

But Michi, if we're talking an actual headcount of RL people and not AV's, then the number is even lower because of this.

I didn't notice since I don't use the basic interface but that is just horrible, they should have left the limit sell on the basic interface.

way to go LL

I said all along it wouldn't work... and STILL there is silence from Vasudha Linden.

Does she even still exist?

Lewis

Don't undercut my buy order

"officially" yes.
/139/2a/106165/1.html

Hmmm.... R U Sure? Still shows 4/25

LOL

the problem isn't the structure of the lindex currency exchange. the cause of devaluation is in the supply and demand of the L$. that is why you observe that there are is disproportionately less limit buy orders - the demand for L$ just does not support the current value for the L$.

i'm glad lawrence finally added the buy side. it gives consumers , investors (capital and content) and speculators a fuller picture before they make their decision.

going.... down?

First, a correction, Jeff Linden added the buy side, not Lawrence. Jeff did an amazing job building on Lawrence’s initial work. The entire web team has been involved this week in helping smooth out the rough spots in the launch, Kudos to them all.

Next, our auditing of the system shows that it is working correctly.

The spread between the buy and sell side appears to be a bit wide, but not unusually so. I think what we are seeing in these first few days is “bottom feeding” activity (which sounds bad, but really isn’t) where only a few buyers are aware of the buy limit orders and are taking advantage of it. Good for them, I would be if I could trade!

One possible reason for the gap, that we are looking into, is that the tier limits for currency traders just are not sufficient to create an efficient market. Clearly, the current market is inefficient, as we are seeing an order of magnitude more outstanding sell orders than buy orders. We will continue trying to develop a more efficient market for L$.

Chris

Since the couple days the limit buy has been in effect, the value of the L has dropped over 20 points. So in retrospect, the limit buy has really sucked as far as the economy is concerned. Any gain that may have occurred from the elimination of dwell was basically flushed down the toilet. We would have been better off if no one tried to "fix" the sytem cause they did nothing but throw a monkey wench into it. Now we have ppl buying high and just turning around and reselling and driving down the value of the L.

Why is it so hard to understand that if you don't think through this stuff, someone is going to exploit it? I mean seriously. Keep it simple stupid, (KISS), is a term that has not been embraced at all. The current state of the lindex is a mess and probably more then half the people in SL have no clue what it is suppose to mean. In my opinion it was the biggest bone head move yet.

Chris... Doesn't what you're saying *ONLY* benefit day traders and speculators?

It seems that the L$'s new aim -by talking about traders and tier limits for them: Aren't you pretty much saying that the only thing that matters is the spread, and those who sell actual items in world can pretty much ride the downward wave, suck it up, or take a long walk off of a short pier?

Traders have no concern over the actual price of L$; the only thing that matters to traders is the spread. If that's L$650/1 and L$600/1, they'd rather have it there than at L$275/1 vs L$265/1.

You guys are going to end up with in-world t-shirts for L$100,000. *IF* the "buying public" (which is disconnected, largely, from the market games) even accepts a price increase of any sort.

Are you guys sure that that's the solution you want to see? I mean, you guys are pretty much saying that inflation is excellent.

One of my favorite quotes is "never equate to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. I think this limit buys falls into the same catagory as dwell incentives. I am seeing a distinct pattern of not thinking through ideas and how they will be exploited.

A raise of 20 L$ per US$ in under a week? This is crazy. The first few days show the steepest slope of declining value I've seen thus far. This is economic madness. The value of the L$ is falling so fast now that it simply doesn't make any sense to keep any spare L$ in ones account for convenience. Doing so is now too costly. I used to keep a few hundred thousand in my account for convenience (my store does a lot of business) but today I had to sell almost all of that. From now on if I need to make an in game purchase or invest in some land I will simply wait for my store to sell enough that day to purchase the items. At this point, keeping anything much above a zero L$ balance is just crazy. This new idea of market sell orders was awful. The consequences in just the past few days seem obvious.

welcome to GOM 2.0

pushing the slide to help the spread. Yeah that 'stabilized' things over there.

Chris, forgive if I take exactly an opposite position here.

The spread is "a bit wide"? When I unwittingly got suckered into selling L$50,000 on Market Sell.. I lost TWENTY THREE PERCENT of my sales. At the worst current market price I would have received 317/$1. Market sell sold my L$ for 411/$1!!!! Instead of receiving US$$157 I received US$121.54. That is a loss of my income of $36 for no other reason that LL set up a system that (forgive me for being blunt) hoodwinked me into thinking it was an honest sell to my benefit. That's more than just "a bit wide". That's as close to theft as I have seen without a gun or knife. This is something that LL should have been able to see from a mile off before implementing this system. Surely you did some tests and could see what the typical results would be to the end seller.

Let me ask you: if you went to any seller and said, "Instead of getting $1 for 317 of your L$ we're going to give you $1 for 411 of them instead"... do you honestly think anyone would accept that deal?

If someone wants to sell L$ now right away, all they need do is sell at the highest current price... not play some flaky Market Sell game that is going to cost them hard-earned L$ to do so.

The fact that Linden Lab put Market Sell as the only option showing on the BASIC screen and the fact that it is so badly documented even on the Advance screen gives me a big message that LL was hoping a whole lot of people would go for Market Sell and drop a whole lot of L$ really fast before they realized what was going on.

How far off the truth am I there?

K, now that I've vented and said my peace, here is what I recommended to LL:

Remove Market Sell from the BASIC SCREEN, or at the very least, put it as a SECOND option with the following disclaimer:

CAUTION! This method is for the purpose of making an immediate sale. The seller will most likely receive a significantly lower price for L$ than using the regular method. Please examine the presented L$/US$ ratio before agreeing to sell.

That would at least be more up front and prevent people from unknowingly losing money-- and getting angry at Linden Lab as a result. You know, customer satisfaction is the name of the game. "Don't worry about the money. Do what's right for the customer and the money will follow".

The real problem is that the Lindex fees are too high to bring the spread to within a few L$. Traders at the highest tier on GOM (flat $0.02 fee per L$1,000 sold, no purchase fee) kept our spread consistently under $0.05/L$1,000. For those keeping score, that's around 1.5%, while the current Lindex fee structure will force the spread to remain above 3.5%.

Yeah, I just sold a bunch of L$ and was charged (as far as I can decipher) 4.5% by LL. You know, that's a hunk of a commission for a simple currency exchange.

WayFinder... I agree totally. At the very least... the loss incurred by people clicking on the vague default sell button because they don't understand the new system (assuming it works like the old system... "silly" them) will anger some people into quitting the game.

I would love to learn the following stat... what percentage of the market buys get put right back on the market vs what percentage are actually players in the game trying to get a good deal so they can make that big in game purchase they have been waiting for. I feel the former is likely the majority.. and doing zero (nothing nada nunca) to add to this online community... on the contrary I feel these are a few taking advantage of the many (perhaps leaching is a better term here) that don't yet understand the new system... and LL in their remarkably poor judgment did little or nothing to try to protect those that may have naively pressed that shiny new sell button.

I would bet 'total L$ value' wise the amount of 'buy' orders being spent in game, vs IMMEDIATELY re-listed back to L$ 1 higher than the sell rate was 'two seconds ago' is an integer that is less than 1

the 'stability' that chris mentioned is not *UPWARD* stability its downward stability, aka if the value of the L$ sells rises past the spread of the L$ buys, a 'day trader' will immediately 'correct' this by having a buy order filled, and sell it for the just profitable difference... thats *EXACTLY* what happened on GOM and why it slowly and gruellingly brought the value down continuously for over a year.. any time it got profitable to play the spread, someone would do so and 'correct' temporary recovery (the profitability of the spread ensures that any time the value of the actual money begins to recover, its pulled back down)