WARNING,WARNING, stop selling at the market now

LOL, yes.. probably is less than 1L$. So if this convenient market buy system in not at all being used to make purchases to be used in game then why was it created? For the benefit of a few day traders? To further destabilize and devaluate the L$? To anger some players that didn't understand the new sell system and thus got ripped off by those more than willing to take advantage of them? Gosh this just seems so crazy to me. I hope there are some huge advantages here that I'm not seeing.

Chris, you are right about one thing, you need the day traders to "make the market". I know that might not sit well with the people that like to append "baron" on to the ends of names, but encouraging currency trading is the best way at this point.

Though, Chris, the problem isn't tier limits, it's as Ricky said, it's the very high trading fees.

You are right, the spread isn't high when looked at in terms of the current fees, but the fees are too high, which is why people are feeling like they are getting ripped off with market sell orders, since it has to bridge that huge fee-induced spread.

Lowering fees doens't mean LL makes less money. Traders will trade more, you'll get probably more money in fees, liquidity is improved, and everyone wins (yes including the little guy).

Please LL. Fix this immediately before its too late. Do something like this.

Could we also set a amount limit too? All of these small sellers selling at high rates are adding up to really bad amounts. It would make more sense to at least set a sell amount of at least 5000L. Is it really that much to ask?

even given all that, the 'basic' sell interface *NEEDS* to show people what they will earn with a 'market' sell versus an 'instant' sell to a limit buy...

I.E:

How much do you want to sell?  ________________

(SELL NOW) for $56.22	(MARKET SELL) for $61.24*

* Market sells will not sell through immediately, it may take some time, or the money may need to be re-sold for a new price, at a later date.

or something to that effect, give even people on the 'basic' interface the ability to *choose* which way they wish to sell, and let them see the difference in value they give up for immediate return

The terms "efficient" and "liquidity" which are often used by the advocates of the new day trading game are confusing me a bit - honestly.

My understanding of "efficient" is something along the lines of "producing the desired outcome with a minimum of effort/cost". That makes one wonder, what is the "desired outcome" here. What is "efficient" in a market that pulls down the value of the traded goods at a rate of 10% in 10 days?

Additionally, I am a bit puzzled about you wondering about the wide gap, Chris. The gap is exactly as wide as to allow the day traders a small profit with cycling blocks of money at the current system of trading fees. The buy, sell, buy, sell game only works with a gap of 5% - 6% or wider ...

Interesting. Something to think about. To a large degree our fees are what they are because of the risk invovled in accepting CC payments in exchange for L$ and vice versa.

C

How about a NoFee account in which we send you certified checks?
Then you won't have any risk. And people can stockpile USDs in
their accounts to day trade the Linden Dollar. Fee Free...

Chric couldn't the fee then be on the original CC payment? With a substantially reduced fee for those using an existing US$ balance, so LL still gets some slice of the action?

Spot on as always Gigs.

Someone raised the question regarding where Vasudha is. I'm sorry to say that unfortunately her contract expired so she isn't working with us any longer.

We continue to look for a full time economist, ideally someone with experience in the practical application of monetary policy! I'm hoping Alan Greenspan might be interested, now that he's free.

Seriously, we know this is a critical position and filling it is a high priority.

The problem with this is that when you sell, whoever you're selling to probably didn't take the time to send in a certified check. The deposit fee should simply be restructured so it's charged for the deposit and NOT the actual currency transaction.

well... that... explains things... somewhat... i guess...

still really need to help the 'basic' buy and sell user interfaces (the advanced ones are ok) cause the way they are made now, has really really hurt people jus tryin to use lindex in the basic mode in the last 2 days :/

Yes I think that would be the best idea. Take any credit card fees out upfront and then have a small pip spread comission on trades.

SL Exchange has this already, though their pip spread is higher than I care for, I think it could be smaller and still make plenty of money in comissions. For reference real currency markets have a 2 or 3 pip spread, SLEX has 60 pip spread (on 1/10th linden pips, real currency is usually 1/100th of 1 cent pips!).

Seconded, eltee. But its not only the 'basic' screen. The huge problem with the current interface is simply: when I go in and try to sell some L$, all I can see immediately (on a large screen!) is a market rate of 337 (currently). This is with the 'advanced' interface!

Not everyone takes out a calculator to divide the number of L$ by estimated proceeds. So the fact, that the actual exchange rate for the deal might be 348$ (currently) might come in as quite a surprise.

Yes, I know that all the facts are clearly stated on the pages. There is such a thing as protecting unexperienced consumers, though. In First Life, too ...

This is not against the day trading gamers. Just inform people better about the consequences of what they do, please! In the current state of things it is hard to see some of the deals happening as anything else as a rip off for unsuspecting consumers. (If you should ask: No, I did not sell any L$ in the last days. And when I do, I usually use the advanced mode.

True for a Market Buy but for a limit Buy we have to already have the money in our accounts. ie to my understanding you have already cleared the CC and we have a positive balance on account. Where is the risk?

HAhahahaahahaah.... Translation: Vasudha sucked and destroyed
the economy, King Phillip blew a gasket, and she was through out on
her azz...

Like I said, chalk up the money and hire Edward Castronova...
http://mypage.iu.edu/~castro/


Edward Castronova
Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Studies
Department of Telecommunications, Indiana University

I study synthetic worlds: online environments where thousands or even millions of users share a persistent, fabricated geographic space at the same time. These places, billed and sold as games, actually seem to be offering something more than mere entertainment. They act as a fantastical alternative to ordinary life, and as such they pose a significant challenge to business-as-usual in ordinary society: markets, public policy, politics, law, romance.

In the area of economics, for example, one pressing issue involves the extent to which people are paying real money to buy items for their game characters, thus blurring the distinction between the game economy and the real one. And this is not the only way in which synthetic worlds threaten the lines we have drawn between fantasy and reality.

As a parent and a gamer, I am both excited and concerned about these developments, and I've written a book in which I try to explain the grounds for both feelings. I've also founded an institute whose goal is to raise awareness of these issues among major decision-makers. Right now, the Institute's main activity is to host an annual conference, called the Ludium, where we try to use the technology of games to stoke intellectual productivity.

At face value, he seems pretty qualified.

You should post this on the hotline RBD. He might be worth a call by LL.

It won't hurt, we do seem to need a tad bit help here

He sounds more interested in the social implications than anything else. I doubt he'd make a very good economist.

I just ordered his book

I own Synthetic Worlds myself. Good stuff.. Recommended
reading for all Virtual Econ Gurus..

Edward also writes on http://terranova.blogs.com

buyers aren paying that anyway, sellers are

Where do I apply?

Lewis

LOL RB, you know, the same thought hit me. Because I thought that Vas was supposed to be the full-time economist. Of course, if we're speculating, there's also the possibility that Vas made all kinds of recommendations that LL didn't want to follow so she either a) got booted because of not following corporate philosophy or b) quit out of frustration.

But I have a suggestion for Linden Lab:

Forget hiring an economist. Save your money. Economics is not a hard science. If you get 10 economists in a room and ask for recommendations, you'll get 12 different suggestions.

Instead.... (and yes, I know not everyone is going to agree with this. However, this method hasn't been tried yet, so why not give it a try? How can it do worse than LindeX is doing already?)

* Set the LindeX market price at L250/$1 and leave it there. Forget about the other companies selling L$. LindeX will still function because it's directly connected with LL and more convenient to use. People will use it. (of course, if LL is really, really paranoid about this, they could also make it a TOS offense to deal in L$ off-system, not that I'd recommend that move. It's unnecessary).

* STOP stipends to free users period. The idea of stopping them to new free users was a good move and will prevent additional problems, but it doesn't stop current L$ flooding. Just plain take the logical step and stop giving away free money to non-paying users.

* Forget any talk or idea of taking stipends away from Premium users unless you're going to offer them something really, really good in exchange. They're paying for their L$ every month. (And I say this on an unbiased basis. I'm a premium user but I'm also a merchant. My premum L$ don't amount to much in comparison with my sales. It's a moot point to me... but to others it willl be major).

The only instance in which Premium user stipend might be considered is if all the rest of this does not sufficiently reduce the glut. Considering that L500 a week is effectively paying back Premium users their entire membership fee... perhaps half that amount would be considered more reasonable. Again however, this should be an absolute last-ditch decision based on continued market problems after a reasonable period of time.

* Put in an effective sink system that has some teeth to it. It should apply to ALL users across the board (instead of putting the burden on merchants and landholders as has been done in the past). Ignore the whiners. The economy stinks. People are going to have to tighten belts. Once the economy is stabilized, the sinks can be relaxed.

* And lastly, and most important... send me half the funds you were going to pay the economist each month. See.. what a good deal!!! I've saved you 50% off what you were going to pay right there!

I do believe the above system would completely stabilize the economy within 60 days... perhaps sooner. One thing is for sure-- the current system isn't working. Told ya it wouldn't even before you opened LindeX. Perhaps it's time to consider that maybe, just maybe, the current model is wrong.

I have a prediction I made yesterday on another thread that has some data I want to update to show the community that the sky isn't falling. Here is the prediction from yesterday's thread:

"Ok, how did we do on the 24th? Since all L$ is being sold above L$315/1 anyway I'll just report those numbers. On 24 May the L$315/1 and above number stood at L$10,996,912 for an equivalent value of $34,357. The 23 May figure was L$10,262,001 for an equivalent value of $32,303. That is only $2,054 growth from the 23rd to the 24th on a day when $34,008 worth of LS were sold and up to $4000 was recycled so about $30,000 was purchasing about $32,000 worth of new L$. Lets see 32 divided by 30 is 1.0667 so if I take the highest rate listed from the data and multiple it by 1.0667 I should have a number. The highest exchange rate in the 24 May data was L$327/1 so that times 1.0667 yields L$348.8/1. Well there you have it folks if $30,000 in new money comes into the market every day and the sellers keep posting sell orders at the current rate the maximum exchange rate shouldn't exceed L$350/1 for a sustained period."

On the 25th of May this is where we stand at 11:30 PM. The L$315/1 and above number stood at L$10,815,969 for an equivalent value of $33,528. That is a reduction from the 24th so I will use the 23 May data. On the 23rd the equivalent value of L$ in USD was $32,303 so using the same logic I used yesterday I will divide 33,528 by 32,303 and get 1.038. The highest exchange rate in the 25 May data was L$336/1 so that times 1.038 yields L$348.77/1, wow that is almost the exact same number I got yesterday.

The fact of the matter is there is less L$ being offered above at or above L$315/1 on the 25th than there was on the 24th even though the highest exchange rate is higher. The limit sellers are bidding up the rate while the market buyers are reducing the inventory of L$ offered at or above L$315/1.

Now the USD equivalent of all the L$ sold on the on the 25th was very high, $40,125, but a lot of that was recycled. So there is still over $30,000 per day buying up your limit sell orders. Keep posting them and reduce the number of market sell orders so you have less recycled money to compete with. The situation at 11:30 PM on 25 May had improved some because the magic L$2 million mark I quoted at the start of this thead now has the last exchange rate down to L$1000 / US$1.00. Remember that 24 hours after opening that rate was L$350/1 and given time it can return there. The lowest exchange rate from the 11:30 data was L$349/1 but that is an improvement from the L$358/1 rate I quoted in the first post.

Keep the faith and give this new market time to stablize.