Why is it so hard to get this question answered from GOM?

Thank you, Anshe.

Which is it? You can't pat yourself on the back for all your efforts in building the SL economy,and then claim you have no effect on it.

We built the foundation of the SL economy. Now that the feasibility of using USD<->L$ trade as a lynchpin of that economy, management of that economy is left to LL. There's no contradiction there at all.

I stand by the statements that we built the foundation of the economy, and that GOM is *not* responsible for the current downward trend of that economy.

And what about the question originally asked in this thread? Why was it so hard to get an answer on this question? For reference, my ticket # is S7877, from 9/6, followed up again via email on the 9th. Still no word.

Bit strong perhaps. There were others who would have plugged the gap, weren't there?

I wasn't here at the time, so correct me if I'm wrong, but is this slightly grandiose claim really justifiable ? If one strong competitor comes to the fore, and drives others out, does that mean they would have not expanded to fill the gap perfectly if it had never been there?

One thinks (maybe a little later) of Hank Ramos, as well as Anshe (still going I think). There must have been others. Does anyone think Hank couldn't have created anything as good as GOM if he'd set his mind to it ? Or Anshe ? Or someone else ?

Since this "morally based" martyrdom argument is still raging, I decided to see if I could flesh out GOM's statement on the tiny amount of money they have made by estimating their current income. My conclusion is that, forgetting the past and any debts, extrapolating just from the last month, GOM is currently capable of providing its owners with an income of US$36000 per annum for about 30 hours per week of work.

But the estimates are just a first shot, and desperately need refining, and other peoples figures (on likely hosting costs for instance). I'd be most grateful for inputs.

Its all here:
/130/27/62367/1.html

And of course, as I expected, I'm taking flak already for even attempting such a thing

You left out the most important competitor, IGE. They are not a business born from our community, but they are very much an important part of the SL economy. Most of the people that I know who sell L$ use IGE, not GOM. It's not so politically correct to say so, but what the hell, discretion went out the window awhile ago. Why do they use IGE? They use IGE because the amount you end up with has always been higher than with GOM. People make the mistake of just looking at the IGE rate vs GOM rate, but they don't take into account fees, of which IGE has no additonal fees. They have been a fierce competitor of GOM. Do you think a company as successful as IGE would be messing around with SL and buying the volume of L$ they have been buying if it weren't highly profitable for them? I sincerely doubt it.

IGE isn't making promises or excuses about mass pay option, which is important to a segment of SL who have business Paypal accounts that would otherwise incur an additional fee on receiving money via Paypal. They have offered it since it first became available (looking at my transactions, it seems they began around February), and it was a welcome change to not have to pay an additional fee to Paypal unecessarily. GOM promised at the beginning of July that they would implement it as soon as possible. Apparently, since they are getting their fees, helping their customers to not incur additional fees is not a high priority to them. That's fine - I won't be doing business with them anyway. I just feel bad for those who do for whatever reason and unnecessarily pay additional fees because this was unimportant to GOM.

I will say that I agree that someone allowing trade is not to be held responsible for the rise or fall of the prices. I think the blame for that can only be placed on those doing the buying and selling, and Linden Labs doing the creating and destroying of the $L available for trade

When one of the primary outlets for buying/selling L$ creates the kind of drama that GOM did in these forums regarding the new LL currency market, it most certainly can have an effect on panic selling and the market overall. GOM is not soley responsible for the recent downturn, but all of the uncertainty has had an effect.

Yep, I left 'em out because I was trying to think of other people coming from within the SL community ie residents motivated to provide service to residents.

But come to think of it, I recently had it explained to me that isn't what GOM was at all. More like an IGE who decided to make friends here and post on the forums in person, because their other currency interests got too dangerous.

Can you explain something to me, Cris, please. I keep meaning to look into it but never get round to it.

Like most small users, I never need to return more than $500 per month to my paypal account, so I'm only the lowest grade of paypal user. I had the impression this meant that I paid no inpayment charge.

I also have the impression that GOM charges me the paypal fee nevertheless.

Surely I must have this wrong. They aren't just subtracting this paypal fee and keeping it for themselves, surely ?

I feel uneasy, but I can't believe anyone would do it. Surely it would be fraudulent ?

What have I misunderstood ?

And what is the significance of the "mass-payment" option you refer to" ?

From Paypal's website, a key feature is that there appears to be a $1.00 cap on payment fees, rather than the much higher fee that Paypal charges without using mass pay.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_batch-payment-benefits-outside


As it is now, if you withdraw $500.00 from GOM, Paypal takes out $19.80, so you wind up getting $480.20 in your Paypal account.

That's an awfully large causal hoop to leap through. You claim GOM created drama, let's accept that as true. You imply that GOM could have caused panic selling but you also admit that they are not solely responsible for the decline. You've also noted in other threads that recent conduct by Linden Lab has looked pretty bad (e.g. customer service failings, feature release failings, stability failings, economy management failings, etc.).

I hope I'm not making too much of a leap when I infer that another causal factor in "the uncertainty" would have to be LL, or, put another way, could there be causes more germane to the exchange rates than LL and/or GOM? I don't really think so, but please tell me if I'm really off base. So if the primary causal factors in the declining exchange rate is either GOM's drama or lack of confidence in LL or simply a glut of L$. How could you possibly tweeze these apart?

Of all of the factors that could impinge upon the exchange rate, I think you are giving far too much credit to GOM if a few postings by a couple of guys could swamp all the other factors I listed. At best, I think you could say that the GOM debacle was merely emblematic of a host of issues at LL. Put more bluntly, if a couple of guys at a third-party site have that much sway over the way in which the value of the L$ is perceived, then LL is living in quite the house of straw.

All that said, the decline of the L$ exchange rate antedated the GOM fracas by months. So if there is one factor out of all of those listed that could affect perceived value, the GOM incident is the least likely candidate.

But - since I don't have a premier or business paypal account, it clearly tells me that inpayments are free provided I don't exceed $500 per month. I don't, so why do GOM seem to charge me the paypal fee? Where does it go.?
Do they pay in the higher amount, expecting me to be charged the %, and when I'm not, I get more than I expected, ie paypal effectively refund it ?

I really am misunderstanding something about the GOM paypal charge.

Help !

The way paypay works.

They only charge to receive money, not to send it.

They have two account types, effectively peronal and business.

A personal account is charge free, upto a preset limit of $ received each month.

Business accounts are charged a %, reducing with volume.


To send $ to GOM costs YOU nothing, but GOM receives less than you send as the % is removed on receipt. The amount that appears in your GOM account is the amount GOM gets from PayPal. GOM take nothing.

When you withdraw $ from GOM to your PayPal account you will receive the whole amount if you have a charge free, personal account AND you have not exceeded the monthly limit.
Again GOM take nothing.

Anyone with a buisness account, or a personal account that has exceeded the monthly limit will be charged a % when they receive their money.


GOM make money by charging commision on L$ sales, NOT from PayPal transfers.

GOM did have one very significant and unique effect on the SL economy in that they provided low margin trading for those willing to deal with market interface, instead of convenient shopping cart. They also resistet IGE's efforst to buy them out to create monopoly. If you look at the immensely huge margins IGE is trading in markets where they are without serious competition, then you can guess what might have happened to the SL economy. IGE buying for 2$ and selling for 5$? Would you have liked that?

If you have a personal PayPal account (i.e. one with free inpayments), then you should be getting every dime of your $500 withdrawal. We don't take a cent of it. If you aren't receiving 100% of your requested withdrawal amount, then you should talk to PayPal's customer service department to find out why.

In this thread....


/130/7e/53057/1.html


We asked about the mass pay. On July 8, 2005 you said...





In post /130/7e/53057/2.html#post560043



Why hasn't mass pay been implemented? If you don't plan on supporting GOM and building it further, you shuold tell your customers so they can make other arrangements. This is a really simple question, that has not been answered. If you are taking an emotional standpoint on your business, that is well your right, but not everyone is going to want to do business with a company that is based on emotions. Business is based on profit.

I'm not the one downplaying their importance or effect. That importance is precisely what made their recent actions so irresponsible.

(cross posted to GOM forums)

GOM:

I'll happily pay the 1$ charge.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_batch-payment-format-outside

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You must create a tab-delimited file containing your recipients’ information to send a Mass Payment file. A tab-delimited file can be generated from most spreadsheet applications, such as Excel.

In the first column, enter your recipients’ email addresses. In the second column, enter the payment amounts for each recipient. In the third column, input the three-letter currency code for the currency of the payment (only one currency type is allowed for each Mass Payment file):

...

Step 5: Make the payments
To make a payment, click Mass Pay at the bottom of any PayPal webpage. Next, click Make a Mass Payment on the Overview page. Locate and upload your Mass Payment file when prompted and customize the email your recipients will receive. Click Continue and then Send Money to instantly process the Mass Payment

Thank you Ricky, I knew I was confused. I was misreading the quote below to apply to Paypal inpayments. When I came across their dialogue about charging me if I went over $500, I erroneously linked the two in my mind. It was slapdash, and I unreservedly apologize. Understanding it all does need clear thinking. I was also muddlng it with the mass-payment question, which I did not then understand, and which does seem to relate to charges for Paypal inpayments from GOM. Which for me seem not to exist.

Incidentally - the mass-payment process looks superficially like child's play. Obviously it isn't that easy.

Quote from GOM :

Add funds (PayPal, e-gold, check or money order)
GOM charges the same fees PayPal charges us. A fee of 2.9% of the amount plus $0.30 will be charged, regardless of the deposit method. The fee is payable in U.S. Dollars. For example, if you deposit $100.00 USD using a PayPal echeck, GOM will charge $3.20 USD and your GOM cash account will be credited $96.80 USD when your payment clears.

Ellie, I use it regularly for my business. It is that easy.

Right now I'm getting charged about 3% per month on what I'm transferring out of GOM because of this fee.

With mass pay it would be just 1$ max.

Right, I think I understand. So if I take US$, deposit it in GOM, trade to L$ and back, and some time later withdraw it again, then two paypal inpayments occur.

The first, to GOM, costs them about 3%. which they naturally charge on to me.

The second, to me, is free if I am a private user. At over $500 per month, it costs me roughly another 3%. Unless mass-pay is used, which cuts it to an amazing $1.

I can see why you all want it implemented. IGE does it, is that correct ?

So a small-scale speculator, moving less than $500 per month in and out, would pay nearly 3% for the privilege, plus GOM's own fee of maybe 10 cents per block, another roughly 3%, and maybe another 3% on the buy/sell gap.

Not that I'd consider being a speculator, but its interesting to see how non-viable it is.

Needs a 9% movement in the underlying value to even consider it, for the small guy.
The big player gains on the GOM margin, but currently loses on the Paypal in-charge. Ends up roughly the same. 9%.

Is this about right ? Fascinating.

Spot on