The camping chairs are dead! Long live the camping chairs!

Camping chairs were always about gaming the popular places list, dwell helped to offset the cost of promotion. Read what Philip said - The Dwell payment is dead, NOT the popular places list.

Clubs, Casinos & Malls will still need to promote themselves and the popular places list provides the best way of doing that. If you're on that list you are guaranteed to have a steady influx of new visitors day after day.

If you're in business in SL you should know - Its not about providing quality content that people are prepared to pay for, its a numbers game. Get enough through the door and any old rope will sell.

I expect to see entry fee's springing up all over the place as owners use the lack of dwell as an excuse. This door fee will pay for fields of camping chairs and ensure position in the popular places list.

Camping chairs are here to stay. I wouldn't be surprised if all chairs became campers. Cost you 20L$ to get in, but if you say for a few hours, you will get it back.....

The biggest looser in all this is icedragon island, makes you wonder if it was really the economy Philip was worried about, or was he just trying to curb his slingo addiction?

Funny, I don't see them going away either, entry fee or no. Especially because most places that employ camping chairs are casinos. And well, Casinos are a dime a dozen, what better way to build customer loyalty?

It seems the real zinger here is that the actual content innovators will suffer. Meh, collateral damage.

LL is trying to address contrary pressures simultaneously; they have decided that it is excess money supply that is lowering the L$/US$ exchange rate but they love the login numbers that camping chairs bring.

One could argue that having 1/5th of the logged in population consisting of "zombies" has diminished the "experience" and thus has caused the lowered exchange rate. But if you did you'd probably be summarily ignored or have a bunch of campers jump on you for getting between them and the US$2/day they "earn" from camping.

The ever decreasing value of the linden has more to do with the small minority who routinly cash out huge sums in order to support themselves in RL - I think the promise that you can make RL living from a virtual world was made much to soon and simply encouraged people to try and do exactly that.

Funny thing is there are many of us myself included who do make a good living in SL and NEVER cash out a single L. Why? I charge real world USD and get paid that way. Those of us and there are a few who do Sl projects for Rl corps enhnce the Sl experience and never cash out a single L.

As for camping chaird I do hope they leave, and yes the box office willbe used and hopefully by event producers smart enough to deliver content worth paying for

The promise was indeed premature.

I said LL decided that the declining value was caused by excess supply - I didn't say I agreed with it. My own guess is that it is caused, like much devaluation of fiat currency, by lack of confidence in the backer of the currency. If this guess is correct, lowering the money supply will bring a short-term reprieve from the dropping exchange rate but the longer term trend will continue; that's usually what treating the symptoms and not the cause yields.

exactly - LL have to be 'seen' to be active.

As if.

Why would I want to pay money to go to a "club" and lisen to recorded music? Things will not be better when the stipend goes away, why would I want to pay good money to one of these places? Not me, why should I have to pay real money to go to a fake club when the real thing is much nicer and you can drink the drinks and eat the food.

The problem with Casinos is that you will be paying real money to gamble for fake money. What a bargin! I can gamble on the web or go down to the Indian Casino where I know the games are not fixed.

About malls, I get to pay real money for something that will not even get on my hard disk. The clothin, skins, vehiciles, etc are only good on Second Life and have no value outside of it. None!

For me, I enjoy getting on line and meeting new people. I have bought all the land, have all of the clothing, skins, hair, etc required. Why do I need Lindens at all? I see this as a good thing as only the people that enjoy playing will remain. Those that are in it for the money alone will go away.

I doubt very much they are going away.

That's perfect! Just get rid of Lindens completely!

First, that'll get rid of everyone who is just using SL as a profit. Really, those people can't get a job in real life and think that being on here for hours on end making items and places will get them through their real life.

With Lindens gone, no one can bicker about the loss of the exchange rate or whine about the free money.

Why not bring Second life back to what it was meant to be. A SECOND LIFE! Where I shouldn't have to worry about RL issues and just enjoy myself by hanging out with friends and having fun seeing attractions built by others.

Both true. And I would add that it is the lack of confidence in Second Life, and the perception that, apart from friendships and the chance to chat with people around the world, Second Life is becoming a wasteland of "for sale" signs.

I tried "There" for about an hour. Every person I met was trying to sell me something, and I got constant reminders that I could buy more game currency--that is why I left.

When I arrived in Second Life, everyone I met was rating me positively and giving me free stuff, and teaching me how do everything for myself instead of trying to sell me their "services." So I stayed.

The behavior of the people is determined by the setup of the economy, and this "for profit" attitude is wrecking Second Life.

I agree with you 100%! I work hard enough in my First Life and make enough money as well.

I play Second Life to get away from those pressures!

I very much agree; I've been saying this for a while too. Responses include "no, it's because dwell/stipends/whatever are welfare and thus bad and cause all problems" and "you're just anti-business". Having a high Find position is very valuable and people will want to maintain that; camping chairs were never just about dwell money, that never supported them entirely. And this won't make much difference to the L$ exchange rate.

so true!!! Thanks for reminding us of how it used to be.

I never thought it would make camping chairs go away.

In fact the only way to make camping chairs go away is to outlaw them, which would be terrible, of course.

They exist because there is no way for new players to make money.

That is - guess what - an obvious problem/defect/oversight/gaping hole in SL, and has been since I got here.

Not everyone wants to learn to script and build or become a realtor, and not everyone wants to become an "escort."

So chairs aren't going anywhere.

Barbarra said, "The behavior of the people is determined by the setup of the economy, and this 'for profit' attitude is wrecking Second Life."

And you know, much as I love making and selling things (which is the main reason I'm here), I was just thinking a similar sentence myself, something like, "All this make real-life money philosophy is beginning to ruin SL."

I figure what the Lindens want in the long run, though, has nothing to do with us. It has nothing to do with regular people coming into SL to create and play and have a good time.

What they want is a "platform" where "professional" real-life companies (some of them consisting of SL residents, usually with ties to the Lindens and who sometimes ARE Lindens) who come in to create something that lots of people might want to want to run in on a basic account and look at (kind of like Wells Fargo) and maybe buy something and then maybe run off again, until another outside company has something here they want to check out.

Now if enough people still hang around to do their own thing and pay their premium and their tier, so much the better. But if some of these people go away, that's okay, too.

There are residents who knew this since long before I got here, and that is why they argue so strenously that this isn't a game, that people shouldn't have "welfare" (i.e., rewards for traffic, etc.), and all the rest of the mantra. It explains why all those people looked like such masochists to me. They weren't! They were really wanting this other thing for themselves, with little reward for regular players.

The greatest snobbery in SL comes from those people who have created an outside company, and who get real-life money for what they do (and big bucks, too), often by creating something for other outside companies. Of course, what they create with their real-life money may go over with the populace like a lead balloon, but so what. It was built and the money was made. (Democracy Island I think may be one such example.)

And that snobbery stems from the fact that that is all LL really cares about. They don't care about the most popular club, or people selling textures, or any such picayune thing as that. They care about residents forming impressive real-world companies to bring in other real-world companies and get blogged about all over the place.

The Lindens want this "classy" academic stuff, plus big real-world concerns (and ultimately the bucks from real-world companies like Wells Fargo). The rest of us are just a means to that end, and have always been. Where we have served our purpose, our benefits are cut. Somehow, I'm not sure how, this is related to the concern over the value of the Linden, as it affects those major players. It is not related to a concern about how much I, for instance, would make if I cashed out my Lindens.

So I think the Lindens and the residents involved in these kinds of things have this in mind. Not a platform for all the little Tom Dick and Harry's. Who they would prefer take their bling and clubs and slingo and garage sales somewhere else.

coco

What Cocoanut said....and very well I might add! ; )

Yep, sad but true.

Lewis

Being a mentor and greeter i seen newbies fly straight from being born straight to money chairs. Gesh Its like "why should i learn to build"??? well maybe a good way to enjoy thisgame? or build skills? well as i finding now newbies and thoe money chair buste era newbies now learning to build because of th lack of money around. If youhave not noticed lager scale and some small scale shops are using money dance pads to bring in people. But you know this is not even close to be what it use to be in the hey days as they say.

I completely agree with this sad fact, I have always tried my best to help any newbies I find flying around unable to find a purpose. Unfortunately more recently the money chairs have become the purpose, at least early on.

As for the calls to ban the chairs or thier use, I sympathise with LL. This second world was created with user owned content in mind. Simply becuase an item is unsavoury or disliked still leaves them powerless to react, as to do so would go back on everything they have promised in the past.

Also let us not forget that aside from dwell issue, the camping chairs 'money farming' is simply a rotation of currency from those who have it to those who do not, its basically the same principle as the money trees (for which I am in favour). One soloution would be to alter the dwell system so that avatars seated in a camping chair do not generate traffic.

Forgive me if nothing I have said makes any sense its late and the insomnia runs strong with me.

Regards,
LeSeul Ferdinand.

This is a intersting remark, and might happen if any historic parts of sl comes into play. Rates increase, the abuse or LLabs event support ect......maybe by mid summer this might happen. Really who knows .........Gesh when i see newbies that are just born fly to money chairs shows me what is at this moment with the game the lack of creative content and the lack of interest to learn how to build. LOL i had a chat with a person that is over at HI and i told this person i getting tired of finding untrained newbies all over sl after passing HI. what was her replay........"well the have the option to the mainland or go to HI" now tell me only 26% passes thur help HI why? 1.) people on the Island are not training newbies right and 2.) the newbie fully know they have no interst to build and learn. Hence this who idea of HI is a bust..because of these money chair/dance pad devices.......Hence I bet you find those chairs/pad wil be gone in a few weeks for good. I been bashed and insulted after making remarks about HI but i am sorry i not going to wear rose glasses and say the sky is pretty...........its not going to happen...

Well, I don't think those assumptions can really be applied to everyone.

When I first joined, there was no Help Island, but I spent plenty of time on Orientation Island.

Then when I was new I hit every money tree there was, played free slots, played Bingo and every other game I could, went to treasure hunts, played free slots, and did every little contest or odd job I could (except for AV contests).

That is because I was a basic and had no money. Now, while I was doing all that, I was also learning how to build. At the end of three months, I had a house on land I "owned", I knew how to build, and I had enough money to buy land for a shop. I then became a premium (and still live on the same land).

I knew I wanted to build things, and I knew I didn't know how. I also knew it would take some time to learn to build, and meanwhile, I could earn the money I would need to eventually buy my land.

If I were a new person today, I would be sitting in the camp chairs, because there really is very little way for a new person to earn money. It doesn't necessarily mean you are refusing to learn to build (or script). A person has to make money while a person is learning. You've got to start somewhere, and it takes money to start - to have a shop, or rent one, download textures, etc.

I have sat in camp chairs, when they first came out, even though I'm was no longer new - while playing Blood 21 (what am I going to do, not sit on one like everyone else?), while shopping for textures (just standing around anyhow), and one night while building, at this enterprising place that offered chairs at a sandbox.

I mean, $12 is $12!

coco

I agree, I was exactly the same. And did all this in tandem with learning to build.


You just listed a whole bunch of ways for a new person to make money. Can a person learn to build or script, or indeed do anything while sleeping leaving thier avatar to sit in a camping chair? I doubt they can. At this point they are earning money yes, but the real reason is to gain the landowner his or her much needed dwell. It is that point I dissagree with.


That I have absolutely no problem with, as it is, in effect, just a money tree.

I have never sat in a camping chair, nor will I ever. But that does not mean I dont see that it is a useful tool for new avatars to get some money. I just believe that a landowner should not be earning dwell for paying zombies to sit there all night hogging server resources, let them explore, like we all did.

Good point as usually coco We had no money trees when i was born.Nor did we have greeters and not even close withteh mentors in the group over 700 now. We were on our own inthe most part. But hey that was a diff game .......
But money chair is just a killer that has infected this game and the structure of eco as well..........

Usagi

I think a lot of the 'regular' zombies (the ones who have managed to rack up hundreds of L$) are actually alt accounts owned by the land owner, in effect they are paying themselves to stay online in order to game the popular places list without spending a penny!

This is why i think the removal of dwell payments had nothing to do with camping chairs or popular places, and everything to do with payments to people who make a fortune from renting land.



.... and it was uphill both ways, cinema and a bread roll for a penny ..... still have change for bus fair home .....