New Proposal for Restricted Space exemption for boats

In SL a boat (vehicle) doesn't take up land prims either.

They returned my yard objects last time they came on my land.

I will be using ban lines and security orbs as long as I need to until there is another way to guarantee the quality of my SL experience that I have worked hard to create and that some others seem to work just as hard to destroy (griefers, etc).

Abuse reporting that is resolved with no action resulting; weapons sold that work in no push areas; particle emitters left with ugly sounds or textures or both. People wandering around my house and not talking to me when I say hi...after awhile the ban lines come up and I get the security orbs...and its been so much nicer ever since.

I love boating too and flying and I wish it were different.

Please don't start the RL vs SL thing yet again.

In the real world, you cannot fly without a plane, you cannot carry a house in your pocket, prostitution is illegal in most places and people don't get to change their skin at a moments notice.

If it's RL you want, it's available to everyone without any restrictions on PC specs. A PC isn't even needed. SL is not RL and never will be.

Now, your objection seems to be that people can own the water. Some people on water sims place sand islands, some place huge square floors covering all the water, some build houses that float and some leave the water open. Do you want everyone in a water sim to remove any blockages they may have (islands, houses etc) or is it just those who leave their water unobstructed that should comply with your wishes?
Take a look at the prices of oceanfront and land completely in the water against the prices of "flat green land". In most cases, those of us on the water pay extra for the view, not so we can be invaded by boaters. Perhaps we should all leave our waterfront sims and demand the opening of all this flat green land for us to drive all over as we see fit.

File a bug report.

Sorry banking lewis your clearly clueless (please go ahead and continue to shove that foot further into your mouth)

this IS the real world. INCLUDING SL. last time I checked I was real and SL was "ACTUAL" code on an ACTUAL computer in the REAL WORLD

that makes it pretty darned real to me and the thousands of other users.

Once again you IGNORE the problem (I know its convenient to ignore the problem stated multiple times and just rant on your own personal agenda)

but I will try again for your addled mind. THE PROBLEM IS WHAT HAPPENS PHYSICALLY WHEN I HIT A NO PASS BARRIER

NOT that there is a barrier in place. I CAN LIVE with BARRIERS as long as they fraking BEHAVE Properly.

What part of that is difficult for your mental processor to chew on ?

I just want to be STOPPED when I hit a barrier. Thats all. JUST STOP ME like it does when I am flying.

I guess thats just too complicated for you OR more likely actually ADDRESSING that issue would prevent you from ranting and raving about your lunatic issues.

Land in SL does not follow RL rules. No matter how much you think it should.

How hard is it you you to grasp, than unlike RL, we CAN CONTROL ACCESS TO OUR WATER TOO. We pay for it, not you. theres plenty of open access void sims and linden areas for you to sail.

Go use an area INTENDED to be public.

You're ignoring the problem that Landowners pay for the land, the prims, the access. Not you. Until you contribute to their teir, each and every one of them, and have an agreement, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ACCESS RIGHTS THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE.

The only clueless one here is you. The 'problem' you refer to is other people not wanting you on their land. Quit whining.

Oh Draco - I did, but you're still not getting on my land. It isn't just a prim issue.

So this is the real world, with real code running on real servers, and you care what happens "physically" when you run into a ban line inside that code?
Am I the only one who sees the flaw here?

You stated in your original post:

You invited comment on this by bringing it up in the first place. It was yet another suggestion that landowners be prevented from putting up banlines.
So this line is clearly nonsense:

If you can't decide what it is you are talking about, how can you go off on others for not understanding?

If all you want is for banlines to work in a decent way, stopping your movement without burying you in the floor, I'm all for that.
If you want to remove the ability of landowners to put up banlines, there's already a million threads on that subject.
Either way, at least be honest about what you are posting.

BTW, the above poster is called "Banking Laws", not "banking lewis". Insulting someone elses intelligence isn't the wisest move with such a basic mistake in place

I couldn't care less about getting onto your land, over your land, through your land or tunneling under it to steal your SL minerals.

I'm not a flyer, boater, ballooner, or a traveler. I <3 my teleports, but you are being quiet stubborn about changing the way the tools opperate to keep them from making those people's lives a living hell.

The real problem here is LL and Sim developers not allocating enough water passages and roads.
You think sailing is bad, try walking, or driving, it's just as bad. No wonder we whine so much about teleports failing, it's the best and sometimes only way to get anywhere even if you only want to travel half a sim away.

There's 4 new sims of water been put on the old continent linking an overpriced Island to the main land with a new Linden built bridge, but the bridge is a joke, way too narrow for actual car usage.

Other than that I suggest that there should be nearly a sim of water surrounding the all continents and a path more than one sim wide between continents, they should start upgrading mainland to Class 5 and using the older Class 3 & 4 servers for water usage. That way when they fry & die, we will probably only lose a few virtual seagulls

And complicating the system by making people & objects warp past/through banned land would only cause more problems I suspect than it was worth.

That word, you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Banking laws seems to think he owns the land. Last I checked Linden owned the land

He does not even have fee simple title to his linden land. He is a renter nothing more.

Real Life rules ARE the rules of SL - last time I checked PEOPLE made the rules in SL and well people are real.

YOU will abide by the rules that are made for the land you are permitted to use. Get over yourself.

I posted a LIST of solutions I would be happy with.

Please stop ranting and actually READ my posts

Here they are again

Best Solution

Allow temporary passage through water JUST like we already allow for air travel ABOVE your precious land.

If this is not possible for whatever reason (technical or social) then there is Next best option

Next Best Solution

Make the damned boundaries work properly.

See my numerous other ignored posts on what I mean by this.

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On a more personal note. I believe any water way that is interconnected with other water ways should be STRIPPED from your possession and made public. What do you think of that. If you own a sim fine then you own the water in that sim. (though even SIM purchases are RENTALS and NOT true ownership as you imply)

If you RENT land in a sim where you do not own the sim permitted water access should be a requirement of that RENTAL agreement JUST like it is for AIR above your sim.

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Contrary to your belief you do not own your land. You rent it and that rental comes with limitations. Water access should be one of them. you should be able to restrict to "X" feet into the water and thats it. anything beyond that should permit simple passage through to other areas.

I bought land ON water for 2 reasons. 1 to limit the ability for skyscrapers to go up around me and #2 so I could enjoy the water. its a bit hard to enjoy water with barriers throwing you all over the metaverse.

As a compromise I WOULD BE SATISFIED if barriers simply WORKED as there supposed to work.

Water passage will be figured out later as the technology permits it and the social structure demands it. You should prepare yourself however since the eventual social restructuring I can assure you will NOT be to your liking based on your opinions here.

If I'm not paying teir for it, then I'd not be owning it. If I had waterfront now, and it was stripped, it would cut prims. Waterfront property prices would plummet. Whoel water plots would zero out. Market crash.

If ban lines wouldn't go over water - I would use security orbs. As long as I pay for it, rent or otherwise, I control access.

Best solution - STAY THE HELL OFF MY PROPERTY PERIOD, EVEN THE WATER.

Next best solution - 6 second passage time, and fix the vehicle prim issue.

Water access should not be a restriction until tthe vehicle prims are fixed. Oh and I might build primwise over all of my land. Even the water. I would allowed that as I could just terraform the water out, and stick my house to the land corner. Fair use.

Contrary to your belief, Lindelabs even declares me LANDOWNER. Not renter. Get over the delusions about society demans this.. it comes down to who pays for the land.

Its not every passer-by. Every boater. Its the individual landowner (LL's own term) for that parcel.

and those rules state that Banking owns the land and that he has the right (and I will continue to call it a right until one of the semantics-arguing folks define it as something else) to stop you or anyone else from getting onto his land.

Why is it that HE has to abide by the rules, but it's ok for you to try to change them?

The problem stems from not everyone not having what they want and trying to find a compramise, but one side (or the other or both) are too stubborn to GIVE UP something.

I think the problem is that one side is asking.. no, insisting... that the other side give something up, without offering anything in return.
The one side is pretty much demanding that landowners give up the ability to close off their land. There's no compromise sought, just a demand.

That's where people like myself and Banking have a problem.
I don't close off my land, but I very strongly disagree with someone demanding that I give up my rights (or abilities or however you want to call it) to use my land how I see fit.

1) I've seen that from the land-owning side too. Such as, "blanket-ban (access controls) extending higher," "specific ban extending higher" (that one having been honored and implemented twice now, with no offerings to the Travelers), "deny object entry" (implemented without any visula indication to Travelers).
2) What about the 497,633 suggestions that DO make compromises? I've seen them, ages ago (not that remember exactly what they were). Most of them have been proposed by Argent Stonecutter (Banking Laws always taking the other side and going "no".

"Why is it that HE has to abide by the rules, but it's ok for you to try to change them?"

I only said that because of his nasty attitude. So I returned his attitude and made some logical corrections.

Like I said OVER and OVER again and like Banking you also clearly do not READ the posts to which you are replying.

I WOULD BE SATISFIED IF THE DAMNED NO PASS WALL JUST WORKED PROPERLY.

HOW precisely is THAT taking your rights away again ?

Let me put it this way. I PAY to access Second Life. YES I pay quarterly. I have GIVEN UP using my nice little sail boat because of this issue. it just makes it impossibly stressful trying to jam the keys fast enough to avoid the flinging that occurs if I hit these walls. Is this right ? I can not use what I paid for because I can not "float past" your damned house in peace ?

In the real world your allowed to "fence in" your yard. thats fine but in the real world we also have PUBLIC passageways and it is arranged so your "fences" can not cut off a public passage.

This arrangement does not happen in second life (maybe it can not for technical reasons I have no idea)

asking people with water to leave a couple of meters available for water passage is NOT asking a lot. Maybe its just not possible technically.

BUT asking that I at least not be flung all over the place when I DO hit these walls IS DEFINITELY not asking a lot (and not asking of users thats a linden thing IE they have to fix the damned code)

YOU need to learn YOUR rights are not everything. I have rights too. When you OWN a sim thats like owning a country you make the rules

but when you own a piece of a sim that many other people also own a piece of thats called a SOCIETY and in SOCIETY we have norms conventions and common courtesies that we follow IN ORDER to have a society.

you want your I own this country rules and screw the rest of society that has to live around you. THATS not right either. That would be like Pennsylvania saying screw you to people who want to pass through to other states. Its our state go around.

Countries can do that STATES can not. Its a societally accepted norm. IT WILL eventually be a norm in SL whether its wanted by the minority or not. SL tends to mimic RL for good reason. the people in second life are REAL people.

Are you OK with me being able to FLY over head ? do you feel your being RESTRICTED that your RIGHTS of ownership are being VIOLATED because your OWNERSHIP only extends to X altitude where above this I am permitted to fly ?

Is that a problem for you to ? REGULAR USERS outnumber LAND OWNERS by a rather large margin. this is in place because having an unlimited ceiling would make "getting" around impossible much more so than it already is. Linden recognized this and set a CAP on this Q Walls so both the land owners and the passing through people can function together.

You can use the space above this cap but I am permitted passage through it to go on my way.

I am only asking the same of "common water ways" OR at the least make the damned walls work properly so I do not have MY paid for experience RUINED that I ALSO have RIGHTS to.

IS that asking so much?

"I think the problem is that one side is asking.. no, insisting... that the other side give something up, without offering anything in return.
The one side is pretty much demanding that landowners give up the ability to close off their land. There's no compromise sought, just a demand."

Thats because the land owners have unilaterally STRIPPED me of MY RIGHT to enjoy Second Life in one or more forms.

SO thats ok but my demands are some how not ok ?

I did not start INSISTING till I got the assinine remarks in reply.

Yeah I get it.

I own land too. I would NEVER block passage on the water in my land. YEAH I have to clean up the damned cubes people leave behind but you know something. thats life. sometimes garbage floats by and you just suck it up and clean it up.

You have any idea how annoying it is to get in my boat and have to CAREFULLY back out and turn a really tight corner in this WIDE river because theres a damned Q Wall a few meters behind me.

What about My Rights ? its all about YOUR rights but screw mine ehh ?

I'll just fast forward to the end. Same damned thread with a boat paintjob. Boats have bigger issues than aircraft, this is true. Your limited to that narrow channel to get from point A to point B. Having to remove your boat from the water to cross an obstacle is known as portaging. Having to portage a yacht can be a pain in the ass. You would have to edit/lift the thing over the obstacle, and if that obstacle is a ban wall, may not work. Your next portage option is to unrez the thing and try re-rezzing past the obstacle. Problem is your trying to rez a boat where rezzing may not be allowed. My two cents dictates that roads should not be restricted, waterways should not be restricted. Using teleportation as your only source of travel makes you miss out on most of the world. There so much stuff to see and experience. So why dont more folks jump into vehicles and explore? Because people find the use of air/sea/land travel a nuisance because of all the hassles inherent in the system. IE: The crappy quicksand bordercrossing, the full parcel, the old guy on the porch with a push-shotgun sitting in a big red cage of no admittance. Physical travel across the continents seems to be a low priority with LL. And considering the fact its gotten worse over time, seems like they dont think of it at all.

thier land, if they chose to block waterways well nothign you can do. the owners pay for that right. so unless you want to chip in for thier tier fees...... float around.

How have they stripped you of this "right"? Stripping would indicate that you had that right and it was taken away from you. This just didn't happen.


Well... yeah.


Oh! So two wrongs make a right. I didn't get that memo.


Well, that's really nice of you. The thing is, though, that we have the ability, as is set out in our agreement with Linden Labs, to not HAVE to suck it up.

Nope. I don't use vehicles in SL. It's just not something I enjoy. However, I certainly wouldn't insist or demand that you HAVE to do this.

On my land? Where I pay for the privilege of having those rights? Yeah... um... you don't have any rights, other than those I give you. If you were paying for access to my land, then ok. But you just don't.

SO CHARGE ME! I'll pay the friggin toll! Install a drawbridge if you want, ITS YOUR LAND.
But a naval blockade just because you CAN totally sucks for the guy whos trying to FLOAT AROUND and cant make it through cus you and your buddys dock is BLOCKING THE WATERWAY. Id be happy to pay the fee just to get around without all the goddamn hassles!

How would you propose this happen?

And, um... wait. Are you now saying that someone shouldn't be able to build a dock that blocks your way? I can understand and agree, for the most part, with those that want banline restrictions lessened for passage (I just disagree with how most of them phrase their desire and the feeling of entitlement I get from them), but now you're moving the goalposts to tell people that they can't build on their own land? Seriously?

You think that's fair? Because you want to putter around on your little boat, someone else, someone who pays good money for said land, should be restricted from building how and where they want?

Sorry. That's just bullshit.

If the Lindens had some foresight, they would have made the damn waterways WIDER. So that the boaters could travel from one end to the other without you and your neighbors building obstructions on YOUR land which prevented the free passage of travelers on public waterways.


Blocking a waterway just because you pay good money for the privalage of doing so is just being a bullshit neighbor and a lousy builder. Sure its legal to do so, but it never should have been allowed to happen to begin with. LL didnt think this concept through when they decided that selling land into the water, to the point of peoples abilility to perform a naval blockade, was a good idea. Im not blaming the selfish person who doesnt care about free passage by folks who like to 'putter around in little boats', Im blaming LL for creating the system that allows these people to buy the water and destroy navigation for the boaters. Thank god you cant buy a property that overhangs a public road and build a wall over it, at least LL figured that one out in advance and didnt allow it. They should have maintained a public channel through the waterways, so that people who pay good money for waterland couldnt screw it up for the rest of us.