Unified voice chat on the grid - what do you think?

I agree. Adding voice will undoubtedly make SL more approachable for people that can't or don't type quickly or well, or haven't the patience for textchat.

I'm just not looking forward to the inevitable:

newbie: "i ned 2 ask u a ? u voice w/ me"
mebie: "I don't do voice chat, sorry."
newbie: "y nt?"
mebie: "Many reasons, most of them personal."
newbie: "pls?"
mebie: "Sorry, no. I don't do voice chat."
newbie: "u suk"
mebie: "I guess I do. Sorry to disappoint you."
newbie: (silence)

I predict this to be a very common conversation

These ones wont be so bad tho its the ones who get downright abusive over it that will really be annoying.

If I do do voice it will only be when my kids are in school - so the rest of the time Ill be a non-voicer.

I remember there were a few surveys done on this forum (now moved to archives section). The overall response was that about 1 in 6 female avatars had male players, and about 1 in 12 male avatars had female players.

One thing that I've heard from a survey elsewhere - although it didn't refer directly to Second Life, but to general MMORPGs - is that some RL women like the fact that women in online games are often played by men, because it means they can safely play a female avatar in the knowledge that this won't tell everyone around that they're an RL woman and get people trying to hit on the RL person all the time.

As others have posted, voice offers the potential to ruin this - if you use voice and are a woman, it's obvious that you are, and "hey, cute voice, where are you in real life?"-type conversations become more likely. If you don't use voice then people will think you're a man. I've seen this happen on another social/forum site; on that site, users started posting RL pictures of themselves on a thread. But after that, any user claiming to be a woman was referred to that thread, and if they didn't post a picture there, were immediately assumed to be lying - even the genuine women who were just shy or for whatever reason didn't want their picture up on the internet. After getting distrusted and ignored on the site's talker, they simply left.

Interestingly I am pretty sure that this will not hurt the escorting industry - because I can't really bring myself to believe that all the guys who are hiring escorts somehow do not know that many of those girls will have guys playing them. What it will hurt is women who are shy, nervous, have noise in the house, have less technical experience etc.

Maybe different purposes would best be served by different grids.

Yes a Voiceless fantasy grid perhaps or maybe they should just split the world instead so new continent has voice old one doesn't?

And I know a few women who play guys because they like not getting hit on all the time.

This is true.

General voice chat is by far the worst idea I have ever heard by lindens, in ages. They could try to start a new grid with voice instead of text and wonder why never a community will build up there. But it is even more then that. Voice simply is a completely different medium then text is. It is not better in any way, just completely different.

I did voice chat with others in english before, which is not my original language, and always hated it very much. And if it was common to a game or a community, it was my main reason to leave. Multiple people speaking in a foreign language, foreign for some of them too.. You would not understand a single word. And, even worse, you have no chance at all to check out unknown words, simply because you don't know how they are written. In SL chat I use translating tools a lot which will become completely useless, because I can no longer copy/paste the word into the translator. I could not even type them into it anymore. Try to translate "Hogghcrouse", because that's all you understand if you do not know that word already. That is why I consider the voice feature discriminating people to a very high degree! That is the opposite of the idea of a global multiverse.

The chat history, real life issues, short afk's, family being around or wants to sleep in the next room while you are forced to speak loudly. Plus this would force me to shut off my beloved speakers and wear headphones all the time, because voice chat is horribly annoying to others. Not to mention how extremely annoying I experience it myself. Blah Blah Blah Blah all around instead of listening to silent music while chatting? Awful! So I'd have to shut off all sound? "Great" feature, really! Or will this be shut off separately? Better that being forced to hear twenty voices while going shopping, but of course you would be considered being rude and ignoring when you won't react to the voices.

Oh, i used voice chat on other games too, but in my own language. And did I like it? NO! No way!! Not a singe time! Whenever TS came up, it was the definite end of ANY working roleplay. All conversation went OOC, and in the few cases, the people tried to stay IC, it was just silly and a parody of their roles, No roleplayed emoting is possible anymore either, because no one would read anymore. And the voices... horrible! Not because they were that ugly, but because they simply never ever fit to the avatar, not just a single one. As soon as voice came into a group, all illusions that I had about their avatars and roles were ended, no they were harshly destroyed and stomped into the dust! No more serious roleplay was possible anymore. Just silly gameplay. Some might like that, for me it was the reason to quit those games and to start a second life.

And how much more this nightmare is about to destroy second lifes that became more then only silly roles that are played in a game! Those lifes will be degraded to parodies too, the second life will become a second game.

This feature, if becoming common, would be the death of secondlife, yes! Because it definitely ends every serious lived second life on the grid. If it does not, those lifes are not the second ones. It is no second life if you are forced into living a first live in an extended chat environment. It completely kills the idea of a second life and simply is extremely silly. But ok, it surely is heaven for some of the residents, that never came to SL to live a second life or to seriously roleplay. But for those that came to the grid, following the original idea of a second life, it terminates their second lifes and their experiences in very many cases,

Really "great"! And for people that do not understand sarcasm: This feature is a nightmare! Why does everything that is good has to be destroyed so soon after industry finds it to be useful for them?

I will stay in SL and see how it develops, just because I do not want to drop my second life that soon, But my plans on buying main land died the very day Lindens announced this horrible feature, telling me they do not care anything anymore about people living second lifes. It feels like a sellout to the communities. Well, at least they did it right in time, at least for me, to prevent me investing too much money into a dieing world that might never be the same again. A great idea is about to be killed, SL is about to be reduced to a meeting platform, instead of a platform to live in. It is sad to see a good idea being killed because of such unnecessary and silly things.


BUT!!!


On the other hand, the grid has already started it's own live, and all that Linden is going to do is to loose more of the control. Mainland might loose much of it's value as soon as this shit is activated there by default. Whenever I see polls about this voice-crap, a clear majority is against it. Not just not liking it, no, clearly standing against it. And this means the one big chance, the landlords might just have been waiting for! In the very near future, "voice disabled", might become an seal of approval for estates and private sims.

I hate to have to wait to see if own land still is of value for me, but I will, until the landlords policies became clear on who is going to protect their residents from this cancer and who are not! This might part SL up into two grids, but if we have to go through this development, then it shall be! Maybe parts of the grid cure them selfs.

Siria, if everyone thinks voice chat is as bad as you do, then it will pose few problems because nobody will use it. On the other hand, if it becomes popular, then clearly your reasoning doesn't apply to those people, and it would be wrong to deny it to them for reasons that don't apply to them.

I will have little or no use for it myself, but I wouldn't deny a useful feature to those who would like to use it.

I don't expect it to be typical on the grid any time soon (for reasons you mentioned: text chat is already too well established). I do expect to see hangouts where voice chat is used by almost everyone and folks who don't won't be able to integrate fully. I won't hang out at those places, just like I don't hang out in places where most people speak a language I don't know.

There isn't really anything that new or different about voice chat: it's just another choice for a means communication, one that will either work for you or won't.

Interesting to take a peek at the statistics in the male to female ratio on each vote. Then calculate them as a whole.

Indeed very true.

I've just skimmed the responses to this poll so I may have (and probably did) miss if someone brought this up already. My apologies if this is a repeat.

I feel one of the main issues, I'll even say flaw, with voice in SL is the lack of any satisfactory way to log what is being said. This means that, if you choose to use voice in SL, someone could verbally harass you and you're left with no proof that the harassment took place.

I log everything and save all email. In SL I've never had to refer back to logs but I log IM conversations too and that's been indispensable. The more I start ramping up business on SL I imagine SL logs will become more invaluable to me as well.

Also, and I did see others point this out, text chat provides an instant history to scroll back and review. If I'm in a class or discussion should I expect everyone to stop just because I have to pee, walk the dog, or put the laundry in the dryer? Of course not, that would be dumb. But if voice became the norm we'd all be stuck in our chairs and instructors and discussion leaders would have to schedule 'recesses' in their events!

Another situation is if someone contacts you via voice chat regarding something they've purchased from you. If you're AFK you have no indication when you return that anyone has tried to contact you. You're left looking like a jerk to your customer.

Anyway, I could go on but plenty of people have already made similar points so I won't add any more.

Learjeff, the main problem will most likely be that this feature will split SL into 2 parts. Two completely different mediums in the same grid with two different approaches to SL for the people. There might be the group of integrated communities that keep on living the original dream of SL, and the new to come groups that you mentioned, who want an extended OOC-based RL, who might prefer using voice. On two separated continents or on two separated grids that might be completely ok. But they will be mixed up and still be parted. And that is why I see it as the beginning of the end. It ends SL and starts RL2 for a huge part of the grid, and not in separated regions, but mixed all over the grid.

Of course there is a difference in how genders rate this "feature". And did you ever really think about the "why"? Did you REALLY try to and are you prepared to face the truth? It is because it hits women way harder then men. Men have a choice, and that is why most of the people saying "Just don't use it" are males, without the slightest understanding about reality for women. Women who prefer a text based second life instead of extended telephone conferences just have the "choice" between bad and worse!

Men who refuse to use voice, refuse to use voice. Point! That is ok and will be accepted by everyone because this is a men's world and a man has the right to make his point. Men have the right to make such a decision, But Women who refuse to use voice will be blamed for it, no doubt about that. And oftenly in very ugly and hurting ways. The right to do the same as men do is denied by many men, mostly even without them seeing it that way.

That is nothing new and common reality in RL and no doubt that this will become reality in SL too, regarding any feature that has to do anything with RL, just like the voice chat is. It is just another approach to discrimination, as usual. And as usual men do not even understand the difference. Just make yourself being aware, that genders are NOT being handled equally like it ought to be. That is just a lie made by men. Many things performed by different genders are NOT the same. Not in RL, and with more real live coming into SL with voice and things, it will become more and more true for SL too. It was not that hard in SL as it is in RL, for what reason ever... until now. A big advantage of the second life is about do die. But only for women, so why should men care?

A man just made up his mind, and a woman has to obey, to fulfill male's expectations or she has something to hide in the opinion of many men. And do you know why most of the time men would suspect her of being male then? Simply because many man deny a womans right to disobey. If she does, she is no women. Oh boy!

So "simply do not use voice" is an easy option for men, and a sure way into being offended for women.

I am really thinking about creating an alternate character and play a man. I would still refuse using voice chat, of course I would. And it would feel wrong playing a male, because I could not express myself the way I want to live my second life. I would be playing and not living anymore. But at least using a male avatar, I would be allowed to refuse using voice without being offended for doing so and no one would blame me to lie about myself ... weird enough. Girls playing males are "cool" while men playing girls are "liars" in the point of view of very many men. No sorry, not in the point of view of men, just in the point of view of boys! I simply prefer people(!) who live(!) their second live in a way I can enjoy them.

Males always whine about too few girls playing online games. Go ahead with features like this and you will loose even more!

My Mom always said when she was re-encarnated she was coming back as a man. Becuase of stuff Like you mention.

Your concerns are of course true, And yes many are trying to gloss it over.

Basically Men will be rarely affected by voice on the grid whether they choose to voice or not few will question their reasons. Im sure there will be some, but it will be fractional in comparison.

Women who want to use voice / or are willing to - Also dont see the big deal. They in some cases are more dismissive then the men. Of course they do know their decision to use voice will be a popular one with the other voice users. Even if they arent thinking on that level.

Every woman who refused to voice will be making a choice to face questions on why they wont. Many will question her gender. Ill guarantee this - since it already happens. Some are fine with that dont care what people think. Theres always people more confrontational than others.

Since voice is coming we'll have no choice but to see how it goes. I dont look forward to it.

If/When I do voice I guess people better get used to hearing the history channel or American Idol in the background - Becuase I usually watch TV when Im on the computer =p

I happen to be a female in RL that plays as a female in SL. I am not deaf, disabled, shy, ugly or physically impeded in any way. I have an extensive background in performing arts and have much experience with dramatic improvisation. In other words, I have absolutley no impediment to engaging in voice chat if that is how I want to communicate in SL, but it is not.

Yes, the use of voice chat is in some ways easier and even better for some situations. But I think we pay too high of a price socially if it kills most of what makes this environment different and engaging. I know when I meet someone in SL, that the visual image im seeing is a creative or random vision of the typist and does not bear any resemblance to their real life appearance. So what! Their choice may reveal more about them than their voice or other limitations do. I do not consider how someone chooses to represent themself here in anyway dishonest. I enjoy the creativity of others and I love to be in a place where I am free to relate to anyone without fear of bias, including my own.

On a more practical level. Privacy is a huge issue for me. I have a distinctive voice. If I use my real voice, what is to stop someone from recording me and using or posting the recordings elswhere. Once private information is out there, it is out there forever and there is nothing I can do to stop it. There is no way to know how this could impact my future professional or personal real life relationships.

For example, I happen to know that several of my male co-workers are on SL regularly. I do not know "who" they are in SL and I cannot risk one of them recognizing my voice and having my words made public, without my knowledge. Whoever spoke about the impact on women above, you are dead on. My coworkers would not be criticized, but I could be negatively impacted and possibly lose my job. Those of you thinking you can use a program to disguise your voice, consider that some of the same technolgy can be used to morph your voice right back to its original tone.

I find the claim that Voicechat is somehow going to help the escort business or "hooking up" in general completely ridiculous. If women wanted to use Skype they would be doing it now. Most of them do not and will not be pressured into it.

As far as the Escorts are concerned. I do not think those men and women are working that job in real life and don't plan to start now. Top tier SL escorts don't make more than maybe $6-7 US dollars an hour. No real life escort would be attracted here to work for so little. I think the current flock of escorts mainly do what they do because it is a role playing fantasy that they enjoy and allows them to make Lindens at the same time. I doubt many of them will continue if it means becoming a sex worker in real life.

I know that current Skytype escorts are an extreme minority and most charge far more than other escorts. Add voice, and they will (and should) charge real life rates. I hope that those individuals engaging these services enjoy camp chairs because, from what I understand, these services begin at around $90 US or $27,000 Lindens per hour.

I think voice is inevitable at this point, but those of us opposed need to stand firm and not be pressured into using it. If we do not, I think the core users that are the support behind the creativity and economy of this environment will quickly begin to fall away. Either Quitting outright or migrating to other platforms as soon as they become available.

I certainly will.

AL

Oh, I see it the opposite way of course. So voice will support companies to take SL over, to use it's rare bandwith for their daily business stuff? Ok, so once again industry will take over a platform that originally was build for communities, and way more important: BUILT by those communities. If voice will draw more companies into SL to use it for their internal business's use this would be another strong reason to prevent this feature at any costs!

It feels like the original creators of SL, those who "created their own world" and who did this BECAUSE of the special possibilities of SL that are about to become destroyed now, have done their duty and may go now. Oh, of course they are allowed to stay and live in their new to build "no-voice"-reservations where they are allowed to "just not use" the feature, that is adressed to completely different target audiences, They payed the Linends server park, built the world and now it is at a point where they can be put into a trashcan so the new generation of customers may take over the world.

I have seen such developments several times now in different environments and it always was a great loss and selloff for the original people, but a big deal for those who transformed communitie environments into business ones.

I speak with a Nottingham accent, m'dooks, which has only developed since I came to SL. I doubt if my RL agent would be much good at a Nottingham accent!

I like the idea of voice chat coming to SL. I probably won't hardly use it (speak or listen) except in certain situations, such as get togethers with friends and such. I don't see any harm in it being available as an option, as long as we're not forced to listen to voice chat.

I also have to agree with your assessment. It's as accurate as it is depressing.

The more I thought about this, the more I realized the potential for harassment and griefing of women avies is just appalling. Right now, if someone is coming on crudely in text, it's remote enough that I can laugh it off. It won't seem funny when I am trying to moderate a meeting and some male voice starts yelling about what he's going to do to me in front of everyone and aggressively swearing like a sailor. Worse, if I try to eject him from the meeting he will try to rally people against me and make it a personal insult. That's potentially terrifying; at the very least it will destroy the meeting, and the woman gets blamed, at least by some. Even many women subconsciously get angry when another woman asserts her rights.

Imagine, too, the newbie experience. One experience with a frightening, abusive stranger would be enough to drive many women away for good.

I take tech support phone calls for a living and lately I've been taking a lot of calls from irates. There are some really verbally abusive and manipulative people out there, and as hardened as I've become, a few are very good at what they do and can leave me shaking for an hour. No one is going to pay to go through that kind of stress.

So, women will either leave SL or wall themselves off to their trusted clique, and the social mood in SL will more or less match RL and stop being the party it has been so far.

Either that, or I ban all voice in my group's meetings. Comply or be ejected.

Exactly!

If they want SL to become a pure male platform with a few female exceptions, like most other online games are, they found the right way to do it. And you know who will be blamed for females leaving after the first few bad experiences that now can really hurt? Not the men of course and not the stupid newbie designers who do not understand that putting anti-imagination, anti-virtuality features and reality into an originally virtual roleplay-environment would destroy the roleplay and, way worse: the virtuality!! No, not those are about to being blamed. who caused the break away of the protection shields, that originally enforced a security distance to any harassment, stress and hurts. Guess who will be blamed that they would "separate from the social life".

This is a feature that enforces real fighting, real defending and real justifying, leading to senseless discomfort, And looking ahead to this completely unnecessary stress really upsets me. I wanted to enjoy light-hearted fun, that is why I live in SL, yet, without the need of being prepared of being brought down the very next second.

But heh, the world is spinning. Linden had a great technical advantage with SL and the rest of the original vision of a virtual world. If it turns only half as bad as I visualize right now, based on enough experiences, then the market will be open again to any competitor who wants to give it a try. Even if the software and the size of the world would be way behind SL, they now got a good chance to catch up this huge part of the original communities, who want to live in virtual worlds without stress and reality, They just had to prevent anti-virtual features and try to focus on what originally made out SL.

In the situation you describe they will either blame the women.

Or claim there were less RL women around all along.



I dont think It will become male only though - theres already women who voice chat.

Those Single women who enjoy voice, and Swingers who enjoy voice, some of whom are willing to put up with the harrasment of the crude men and their locker room/construction site manner - will stay

Others will stay with voice shut off. Living with the accusations that they must be lying about their gender or else why not voice? - Some not even caring who thinks whatever.

But will some women leave? OF course. Only time will tell how many.

Which would be a pity. One of the more pleasant aspects of SL is the fact that there are females here (and real ones abound) because not every sim is about sex, selling something and/or gunfire. I find the diversity of gender adds tremendously to the experience... not for any shallow romantic reasons, but for the sheer depth of roleplaying. One of my favorite sims, Caledon, has a very large (I suspect, mostly genuine) female population. I couldn't picture Caledon without them-- even the ones that are guys pretending to be women. I do hope voice doesn't drive away a significant female population. I can always join WOW or the like, I suppose.. but I'm not that interested in non-stop warfare with a bunch of guys. On a related note, in Caledon we are supposed to be a techno-Victorian society. Many of us are (if not most of us) from the U.S.A. Hearing all those broad midwestern (and harsh New Yorker) accents trying to sound british might ba a bit of a buzzkill.

Another reason why its mainly men wanting voice chat

SISTERS are doing it for themselves – at least they are in Queensland where a sexuality survey showed that women with no partner could achieve orgasm more easily than those with a man on hand.