Multipe Accounts During Beta (Server Wipe)

TWIMC,

First of all this is Beta and you better plan a server wipe before you go live or you will have allot of pissed off newbies. Why should Mr. Newbie pay 10 bucks a months to start out with 5000.00 linden and Mr. Beta X pay the same and has acquired 150000.00. Mr Beta X has had access to the game since the beginning and has found many bugs which he has earned a great deal of money from. Granted Mr Beta X did his job and turned them in, but still has profited from them. Mr Beta X also had 10 accounts and combined all the starting cash on to 1 account.

The whole point of beta is to test the game - granted this is a little different than most, however if you back up your scripts - when we go live your still ahead of the game.

Robins post did not address this issue in any way - as matter of fact made it sound as if all Beta residents acquire would be transferred - Which is a huge mistake.

The only way this can be done fairly is for a complete object / account wipe before the game goes live. If your nice you will let us keep our names.

Xavier

I hate it when you are right.

Boo to that.

I think the idea (and it is turning out that way) is that most of the content in the world is resident-created. Why throw away a vast amount of freely contributed effort? As discussed elsewhere, there's no way to achieve perfect "fairness" in an online game, someone can always use real money to get an advantage, so there's really nothing to be gained.

Also, from a business perspective, a beta tester is a lot more likely to become a paying customer if they get to keep their stuff.

I firmly disagree....all that work to build up our ratings and all the stuff we've built to be wiped away for the sake of paying newcomers??....no way, Jose. I fully support the Lindens' plan to let us keep everything we've worked for when this goes live.

Besides, even as a beta tester I was faced with "starting out" in a world inhabited by a bunch of wealthy, well-established residents...whom I was inspired by and learned from to get where I am now, and it has been a tremendous experience for me in-world. So why should it be any different when sl goes public? Each new person that comes in will have the same opportunities to "make it" in sl, and I think this is what sets sl from other mmog's.

In addition, the release of version 1.0 will probably be accompanied by the continuing addition of additional sims, which would offer plenty of land for newcomers to claim and build on. I wouldn't be opposed to having the "new land" set aside for newbies for a certain length of time so that us old-timers wouldn't buy it all up with our accumulated cash...which would help ensure that the newbies will have the same opportunites we beta testers are having now.

J

I'm not sure where I stand on this one.

If this was an average online game I'd have no problem with a wipe.

Wednesday has a point though. Almost all the content is user created. People have put alot of time and effort into this. It would be a shame to throw it all away.

It also wouldn't be fair to new players to have the whole game filled with stuff right from the start.

Maybe the beta testers could keep there inventories but have all phyical objects, money and stuff wiped. They would still have access to the things they've built, have things to show off to the newbie's, but won't have a vast empire, I don't know.

If there is a wipe(sigh), well it is a beta and should be expected.

I will only say a few things about this wiping idea (all in the negative)..

SL's major draw for me (I am not an old timer, less than a month in), is to see all the wonders that can be created, to be inspired to create them, and weasel out the ways to fund them!

Another of it's beauties is to see all that the inhabitants have made for sale. For money, For self-pride, and For lazy buggers like myself who cant bother to lift a scripting finger in their own defense.

And last but hardly least, all the monuments that are out there for us to say "Daaaaaang", This is for all that makes it worthwhile to travel and look. From Zoli's castle, to The suicide pit, From the board walk to the king of the mountain arena, From Kerstin's lovey yet bizarre trivia palace, to the casinos that make us drool.


If we wipe. that's all gone. All the sweat, all the frustrations, but most of all, All the wonders that currently await the new comers. Why should only beta testers get to see these many marvels?

For bet your bottom dollar, somethings that are built now, would not be rebuilt. Some projects were started with high ideals, only to run into serious cash problems. If it had to be done over again, many of the joys SL has to offer would be much much longer in coming. For the Oldsters are now Wisesters.

You cant take this only from one view. Yes the paying newc comers will be behind the beta testers. But what is better. Behind and inspired, or equal in a barren wasteland?

The reason you have a wipe is to create an even playing field, in a game where there are more obvious winners and losers(technically there aren't any losers in most online games, because someone who loses consistantly isn't that likely to pay a monthly fee to lose) but here, how do you define winner/loser? is it the person with the most money, the most friends, or the is the best scripter/builder? the only thing that a wipe would change would be what an avatar virtually has, like money or objects, but we would still have all our advanced knowledge in the respective fields we play in. SL is about creating and enjoying...it isn't really about who has the most stuff... that is why I offer any and all advice i have concerning whatever topics(yeah, yeah, yeah, i know it is usually scripting, but i have been know to dabble in the texture arts, ask tracey ) for free.

If there were a wipe(which there won't be, or not in the sense of a total character wipe) it would run totally counter to the ideas inherently tied into SL, namely that of Community. We are building the foundations of what will be the Commercial version, everything we do now will serve to inspire and awe all the people who will join once it goes gold. Yes, it can be intimidating, i will search for the thread where this is explored, but ultimately it just drives people to do better and better things.

when we transitioned from alpha to beta, there was a wipe of sorts. the world is cleaned(in this instance we were all transported to new servers), but everyone gets to keep their inventories, so you can just pull your buildings out of your pockets and place them in the ground again.

here's that thread

Now answer from the other side of the coin - not as a beta tester but joining he game as a newbie. Open the same question up on a public forum and see what responses you get.

How many of them do you think it would be fair - BTW beta testers are the minority. EQ has 427,000 subscribed users paying 12.95 a month. How many beta testers you think there were ?

Grimm your idea that more beta testers will be paying customers is really not important in the big picture and as a business model you want people to pay you more money to have the edge.

The Lindens are not doing this to promote love, harmony and peace across the world - their out to make money. They have a great product but still must cater to the majority not the minority.

Xavier

ultimately if they wipe all our objects, textures, scripts, and avatars, we will be able to replace them in a week, because we have done it before. We have the knowledge, we know what we are doing, and we know what the system is capable of at this point. unless they can do a brain wipe, or they choose to ban all beta testers, heh, the problems you are talking about are still going to be there.

Although i personnaly do not think that they are problems, because when you come to SL, it is a little overwhelming at first, but you see what can be done, and hopefully it gets your creative juices flowing. It is not about winning or losing here, although there is a scoreboard... or rather it doesn't have to be about winners or losers, it is what you make it.

I am neither a winner or a loser, I am a helper and a scripter. I make friends and attempt to pass on what I know about how this world works. The winning and losing is based on the simple assumption that there isn't enough to go around... tell what there isn't enough of here? there are only two commodities here, L$ and knowledge. L$ comes and goes, it is only a means to gaining more know-how. how can we run out of knowledge?

Ok if they wipe the servers when SL goes public. There is nothing really good that can come out of it. You can say "well it will level the playing field" May I point out that there is not really a playing field. No matter if you wipe or not the rich will be rich. You can get around that, because obviously they have figured out how to make money and they can do it again. So what do you solve. Nothing. This game is not developed around a "playing field" it is developed around a society. Being a society people will never be on the same level so why wipe it at all?

-Skippy

<cheers at Skippy>

That's an argument against a wipe, rather than for it, if there are relatively few people who start with a theoretical advantage, so what?

Look at it from this perspective, If SL went live next month, and then I (a newbie) joined a year later, the world would be full of people that have an advantage over me, becuase they have spent more time in world.

We beta testers are a huge resource for LL, when the game does go gold, they are going to want experienced people around to help the overwhelming horde of new people get through their growing pains.

I'm not saying that LL should give us all free accounts and send dumptrucks of money to our houses (not that that wouldn't be nice), I'm just saying that they know that our collective goodwill is an asset to them and that they probably want to keep it.

A month after the game goes live, it won't really matter if you were a beta tester, or set up your account the first live day, and the benifits of not wiping beta accounts far outweigh (IMHO) any theoretical perceived unfairness.

[Edit: Bah! Nada, Skippy and then Nada again posted their replies and said I lot of what I did while I was crafting my reply! Serves me right for thinking about what I'm saying. From now on, I'm just going to type the first thing I can think of!]

Using the logic is see prevailing here, the Lindens will need to wipe the servers about once a year so the new-comers woun't feel overwhelmed by what has already been accomplished. Does that make sense?

The guy who shows up on day two will feel inferior to the guy from day one. Where do you make the limit?

I vote to leave it all in place.

-TK

Well said Nada

And I am a newbie. Yes I've had a lot of luck with meeting the right people to help me get started (Nada being one of them), but in the SL world

well heck last time I logged out I had 41 LB to my name, and a plot of land with nothing on it.

Am I upset because other people have more? heck no. Do I want to be where they are? Heck Yes!!

But being where they are doesnt mean dragging them down to my level. It means scrabbling my way up to theirs.

Is it fair? of course it is. *They* put hard work in to be where they are, have what they have. Taking that away doesnt make us even. That would make me a theif. For stealing their work. And not even for gain, just for spite.

The knowledge can never be taken, but it can be shared. I would rather have a simfull of wealthy people willing to help, than a sim full of very talented people holed up on their own private lands trying hard to rebuild, and not having time to give me the lil bits of help I need.

[ Ha, it happened to Tracey too, or I am on her Ignore List ]

Maybe Xavier has some deep dark secret in his profile that he wants to get rid of.

Jaxiam,

Sorry but you can't attain their status since you were not around to exploit those bugs, or those cheats. Nomatter how hard you work they will always be better.

Ok jaxiam you need to quickly sign up for 5 accounts and transfer all the money to 1. Then find an old modifiable voting booth and vote for yourself at least 9 times a day for the next few months, and make sure you put it in the city so it will not be noticed.
You can't use the zone res bug anymore so your kinda screwed there.

You have to do all this quickly before we go gold.

Xavier

I'm gonna try to be objective about this. Dunno how well I'll succeed, but I'm gonna try.

If I weren't a beta tester -- if I were a brand new paying customer/resident when SL goes live -- if I popped into the world and there was nothing to see but open space with a few lovely trees blowing in the wind.... and I obviously had no building or scripting (SL style in both cases) skills.... I don't think I would be very impressed. As others have pointed out, the creations already in world have inspired them to create their own masterpieces.

Speaking as a beta tester -- I've worked hard for what I've gotten. LL has gifted me (and all beta testers) with the priviledge of playing SL now before it goes live. In return I've done and continue to do my "job" for them, which is to seek out bugs (and destroy them by means of informing the devs of their existance and how to recreate them). Who's doing whom the greatest good, here? LL couldn't do this without beta testers. LL stands to gain financially once SL goes live. The beta testers stand to gain -- what? Advance knowledge, yes. And I'm not discounting the value of that. In fact, I rate that very highly. But is *just* that advance knowledge (how to build, how to script, etc.) enough?

I don't think LL should give us free or discounted accounts after they go live (although that would be sooo nice!). I do think they should allow us to keep the fruits of our labors -- not just in our inventory, but in the world where we've built them. Not just as a "thank you" to us, but to serve as example and inspiration to all the new paying customers.

I have no idea if any of this makes sense. I haven't had nearly enough caffeine yet today. I'm not even seeing in color yet.

#!

actually I can catch up in this way...

maybe I may only get 1,000,000 to their 2,000,000 LB. But at that point does it really matter? Popularity wise? everyone is surprised I am getting as pop as I am ... but I help out at the welcome area, talking to new comers and assisting the lindens in answering questions.

Building? well lol just ask tracey how prolific I am. yeah, I cant keep any of it out, but I build it and save it for a wealthy day.

Land - actually my land is quite substantial.

scripting? lol dont know a thing about it. but have the best in the business willing to lend a hand while I learn it (not just give them to me, but help me understand and develope it myself).

so my LB's are short.. so what, I am one of the wealthiest people in SL. Not because of my bank acount, but because I am putting in the effort, meeting the people, and exploring.

no cheat, no hack, no bug could ever make that easier. You still build one primary at a time. You meet one person at a time, and you explore one server crash (black hole) at a time (*grins*)

The money will come with time. Do I envy they their money - a little - but only because I want to build even bigger and better. So did they. Maybe it was easier for them, maybe there were more exploits. But taking that away wont make a difference. because no matter if you start out rich or poor, everyone with the desire and drive can succeed in SL.

If newcomers dont have that desire, than no leveling of the playing field will ever make them "equal" to the rest. because it is that drive that determines how far we go. And no matter how much someone else has, they can never take away from me as long as I keep my goals in mind.

Makes perfect sense to me, and I agree.



Yes Charlie it happened to me too. I don't post anything unless I write it in Word first. My spelling and grammer sucks so bad, by the time I've written it and got in posted, 5 others have beet me to it.

And NO Charlie, you are most definitely NOT on my ignore list.


-TK

if you define the ultimate goal as being the wealthiest then yes, xav, there is a problem. however i refuse to believe that everyone here is motivated by monetary gain.

Glad to hear it Betty.

Of course, we're all just monkeys here arguing about what time the zookeeper should feed us but...

I think we've agreed that the benefits of being a beta are

a) knowledge and experience, which can't be taken away except by careful application of a ball-peen hammer

b) L$, objects, textures and scripts legitametly gained by time and effort spent in world

c) L$ gained by exploiting bugs

We've explored at length the detriments caused by taking away (b), what are the benefits gained by taking away (c)?

Well, what are the benefits to a resident to having lots and lots of L$? There are some people who will enjoy running around going "d00d, I'm an a 1337 L$ Billionaire, I r0xxor!" and some others that will go "d00d I totally r3spect j00 and your $$$!!!" But SFW? I would hope that they would quickly get bored and go back to using aim-bots in CS or whatever.

Maybe they can use the money to buy lots of land and put big objects on it, high up in the air. Again, big deal, as was pointed out, we're talking about a small subset of a small subset of total players after the game goes live.

So I really don't see what the problem is. What is the huge advantage to taking away these few people's ill gotten gains that justifies wiping out all the good content?

OMG......

I AM SO SORRY.

I didn't mean to call you Charlie, was honest mistake. Both really nice guys that can actually write.

So Fred, do you forgive me ??

No on this one Xav...

I'm not gonna say what everybody just said...so... I find SL make the person behind the avatar (at the computer) "gain skill" not the avatar. I don't think that wiping would be a good idea... I would still have all my skill. I would just need to rebuild EVERYTHING. Which would just piss me off!

Jax made a good point about coming into a new world where everyone was too busy restoring their content to help a newbie. And it completely on target for me, if i had to rebuild, i would be so obsessed with getting it right, or getting it better, that I would have no time to talk to anyone, much less some eager newbie! And a bunch of unfriendly folks feverishly working on their half-finished projects would make a fine impression on someone just coming in to the world...no one to talk to, nothing to do, and no way to learn...whee!

Hopefully when we go gold, we will have plenty of content not just for newbies to look at, but to entertain them as well.