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BAN ban-lines

Doggie Jigsaw
New Mexico, Arizona 1860s
Join date: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 52
02-02-2009 06:28
From: Argent Stonecutter
Except that in SL he can see through closed blinds, a brick wall, and a level seven warp shield.


Right, more ability but not a whole lot different than the guy with binoculars being able to see your bedroom activities thru the open window DESPITE your two door locks, security alarm and a doorman stationed at the lobby door to keep people out.

From: someone

It tells me you don't actually drive vehicles in SL all that much,


Oh? is that why I have a folder with 43 vehicles and a second folder with 17, plus I play around with a flight script in a large sandbox? Most vehicles in SL suck anyway, that is why we have flight feather and flight as well as TP to get around with, vehicle scripts are not very good and tax the rendering considerably with the increased speed.

From: someone

or you're actually working at Linden Labs so you're on the same LAN as the sim, or you're lying.
I'm not running Bootcamp on my Macbook Pro. I have the same problems there.


Linden employees have names with Linden in them, I never heard of SL before I joined a couple or three months ago. I do not run bootcamp on my Mac, I have three G4's on my router and my main box is a G4/ 1.42 dual core running 10.4.11, 2G ram, ATI Radeon pro 9700, on broadband. I don't have the problems you describe, yup, it is occasionally lagged in high texture areas, but running into walls, ban lines or messing with vehicles does not crash SL.
With a flight script dumped into a car it works great in a huge sandbox, go over the top of the walls of that mega prim and over sim bounderies and it does odd stuff, loses control and often winds up half a sim away or at some crazy coordinates with a -8000 or more meter number. That might mess up animations temporarily on my AV but it hasn't crashed SL or my box.

SL is a GAME dude, entertainment, nothing more.
Checho Masukami
UnRez it or use a hammer
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 191
02-02-2009 06:49
I personally see ban lines as a nonsense thing. I mean, as a mainland land owner I can ban/kick individuals, I can set if objects can enter, if scripts can run, if people can build... so ¿why I still need an all-time activated resident-blocker thing?
If Im there, I can just eject people and if im not ¿why should I care? if they cannot harm using objects of scripts according to my preferences...

Maybe Lindens should charge a small fee for using ban lines. That way ban lines will be used only by those who really need it (and has money to pay for them, of course).
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-02-2009 12:39
From: Doggie Jigsaw
Right, more ability but not a whole lot different than the guy with binoculars being able to see your bedroom activities thru the open window DESPITE your two door locks, security alarm and a doorman stationed at the lobby door to keep people out.
Don't be silly, you can't "close the window" in SL.

From: someone
Most vehicles in SL suck anyway, that is why we have flight feather and flight as well as TP to get around with, vehicle scripts are not very good and tax the rendering considerably with the increased speed.
Just out of interest, where did you get Flight Feather from?

From: someone
With a flight script dumped into a car it works great in a huge sandbox, go over the top of the walls of that mega prim and over sim bounderies and it does odd stuff, loses control and often winds up half a sim away or at some crazy coordinates with a -8000 or more meter number.
Oh, gee, I thought you said you just bounced off! That "crazy stuff" is what happens when you hit ban lines or full parcels when crossing a sim boundary (or shortly after crossing one).

If you fly cross country often... and it doesn't sound like you do... hitting those kinds of barriers will eventually crash your SL client.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Harmony Levee
Registered User
Join date: 8 Dec 2008
Posts: 189
02-02-2009 13:13
I think my issue with ban-lines(which I have used them on my own parcels before for privacy). Is when they affect waterways or roads. I also enjoying going on long SL drives across 20-30 sims that have interconnected roads. Also waterways that are interconnected. I have hit banlines and it basically ruins the day out with the kids(haha). Maybe make them so somehow they wont be in the water or on the public roads?
Doggie Jigsaw
New Mexico, Arizona 1860s
Join date: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 52
02-02-2009 17:43
From: Argent Stonecutter
Don't be silly, you can't "close the window" in SL.

Just out of interest, where did you get Flight Feather from?



I have two of them, one with a HUD and one without, I don't exactly remember where, the one w/o the hud was given to me by a friend, the other I found with a search after losing the first one.

From: someone

Oh, gee, I thought you said you just bounced off! That "crazy stuff" is what happens when you hit ban lines or full parcels when crossing a sim boundary (or shortly after crossing one).


I do, I simply bounce off ban lines, you are confusing my airplane flight scripted object in a large sandbox where there are no ban lines, with non flight scripted movement elsewhere where I HAVE hit ban lines many times.

The crazy stuff ONLY happens with the airplane flight script in an object when going above the sandbox's walls- they are at the border of adjacent sims since the sandbox is the size of the sim and at 500m, someone said the walls of the mega prim push you up if you go over them, at least with the airplane.

From: someone
If you fly cross country often... and it doesn't sound like you do... hitting those kinds of barriers will eventually crash your SL client.


Hasn't so far, and if it does, I wont let it bother me, it's a game anyway, and it sure doesn't hurt to restart the SL software periodically anyway to clear the cache and reset.
You seem to take stuff in SL too seriously and let it get to you, take a step back and look at it objectively- it's game, it's not real life, it's entertainment, interacting with others WILL cause problems of some kind any any point, expect it, it's the nature of the game.

If you want complete control, buy or rent a private island or a sim of large size.
Baloo Uriza
Debian Linux Helper
Join date: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 895
02-03-2009 14:22
From: Argent Stonecutter
No more than 38.44%, by my calculation. You'd get another 46.77% by making them show up on the mini-map.

Letting the people who really want to prevent access to their skybox "flip" them to the skybox zone, now... you wouldn't actually need to see them, for the most part. :)


Designating anything under 500m as a flight corridor (no skyboxes) would help along those lines as well... along with solve complaints of clouds through skyboxes. I'm not sure why this wasn't done to start with, it's rather unsightly to look up and see a skybox below the cloudline, almost as bad as the adfarms.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-03-2009 14:35
I'll ignore the "it's only a game" comments, friend, because while I understand the self gratification in that kind of pose of ironic detachment, it really is just a pose. If you didn't care about what happens in SL you wouldn't be participating in the forums.
From: Doggie Jigsaw
The crazy stuff ONLY happens with the airplane flight script in an object when going above the sandbox's walls- they are at the border of adjacent sims since the sandbox is the size of the sim and at 500m, someone said the walls of the mega prim push you up if you go over them, at least with the airplane.
What I'm talking about, and have been talking about, is long distance cross-country flight in an airplane or ground vehicle. Other people have commented on how ban lines effect boats. If you don't engage in long-distance cross-country travel in a vehicle, then you pretty much don't have any relevant experience with vehicles in SL, and you have no basis on which to judge or even comment on the topic.

Oh, by the way, your friends have absolutely no clue what they're talking about, and are feeding you an undiluted line of bovine exhaust.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Baloo Uriza
Debian Linux Helper
Join date: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 895
02-03-2009 15:56
From: Argent Stonecutter
If this is true, then Microsoft broke something really badly in Windows XP.


Yes, and it's also true in Vista. In an effort to fix the scheduler, they made it worse and figure nobody will notice the difference now that machines are capable of more FLOPS...
Doggie Jigsaw
New Mexico, Arizona 1860s
Join date: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 52
02-03-2009 20:48
From: Argent Stonecutter
I'll ignore the "it's only a game" comments, friend, because while I understand the self gratification in that kind of pose of ironic detachment, it really is just a pose. If you didn't care about what happens in SL you wouldn't be participating in the forums.


I have posted barely more than a dozen times in here because it's here, free, and I saw a few things that were of interest to me while searching for information on some scripts and resources. Don't try to "read into" people's posts, I stated it like it is- SL is a game, entertainment, fun, fun to create on the fly in 3D and chat with friends, nothing more.


From: someone
What I'm talking about, and have been talking about, is long distance cross-country flight in an airplane or ground vehicle. Other people have commented on how ban lines effect boats. If you don't engage in long-distance cross-country travel in a vehicle, then you pretty much don't have any relevant experience with vehicles in SL, and you have no basis on which to judge or even comment on the topic.

From: someone

Oh, by the way, your friends have absolutely no clue what they're talking about, and are feeding you an undiluted line of bovine exhaust.



Oh? well then YOU explain why my airplane performs well, banks, climbs, lands and speeds around the large sandbox around 40m/sec perfectly fine till you climb near one of the mega prim WALL's tops and go over the wall, at the point the plane become unstable and spins out of control, but if brought back over the horizontal of the sandbox's ground and below the tops of the walls, it stabilizes fine! There are no ban lines up there and it's a known fact that mega prims do wierd stuff, including allowing some objects to fall thru when activated.

I don't bother with trying to fly a vehicle or drive a car halfway across SL, that's what a TP is for. If you hit void areas you can't go thru them anyway.
In any case you said BAN LINES and you were posting about your VEHICLE, a car, being on the road driving and I said I'd run into ban lines often and had no problems, they suddenly become visible around the parcel with "NO ENTRY" and bounce off it.
Now you talk about planes, ban lines don't extend up to 10,000 or 20,000 meters, they have a limited height, fly above that and no problem.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-03-2009 20:59
From: Doggie Jigsaw

Oh? well then YOU explain why my airplane performs well, banks, climbs, lands and speeds around the large sandbox around 40m/sec perfectly fine till you climb near one of the mega prim WALL's tops and go over the wall, at the point the plane become unstable and spins out of control, but if brought back over the horizontal of the sandbox's ground and below the tops of the walls, it stabilizes fine! There are no ban lines up there and it's a known fact that mega prims do wierd stuff, including allowing some objects to fall thru when activated.
You only go flying in a sandbox that really has megaprim walls around it? *why*? What weird kind of sandbox is this?
From: someone
In any case you said BAN LINES and you were posting about your VEHICLE, a car, being on the road driving and I said I'd run into ban lines often and had no problems, they suddenly become visible around the parcel with "NO ENTRY" and bounce off it.
Unless you hit them at a sim boundary. In which case you get the same results no matter what kind of vehicle you're in:

The vehicle is allowed to enter.

Your avatar isn't.

The vehicle continues, and doesn't know you've been ejected.

So you don't have any controls. You can't move.

And sometimes, you end up falling through the ground forever until the client crashes.

If that doesn't happen to you, you're just not using vehicles much.

From: someone
Now you talk about planes, ban lines don't extend up to 10,000 or 20,000 meters, they have a limited height, fly above that and no problem.
If you hit them crossing a sim boundary, or hit a full parcel crossing a sim boundary, it doesn't matter what height you're at. Oh, and the flight ceiling in SL is 4096 meters.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
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Doggie Jigsaw
New Mexico, Arizona 1860s
Join date: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 52
02-04-2009 18:34
From: Argent Stonecutter
You only go flying in a sandbox that really has megaprim walls around it? *why*? What weird kind of sandbox is this?


It's a HUGE privately owned sandbox that has very few other users in it at the same time, uncluttered wide open space and very little if any lag, the size of the sime below which I believe is 64,000 meters, the walls might be 30 meters or so high.

Not much fun flying in a straight line over terrain, lots more fun in a semi enclosed space (like a race track) and one where your air speed feels magnified even more by the walls which give you a relative size to judge distance and speed- zipping by.


From: someone

Unless you hit them at a sim boundary.

And sometimes, you end up falling through the ground forever until the client crashes.

If that doesn't happen to you, you're just not using vehicles much.


There are no ban lines there, the walls are at the perimeter of the sim, when you cross into the next sim by going over the walls in an object with the flight script in it, you lose control like I said, and controls become extremely sensitive and go weird, I don't know how to make it any clearer than that, it has nothing to do with how much time I fly and everything to do with going over those walls across sim lines, and the speed- 40M/sec.

Flight without a vehicle/script I've run into ban lines many times, they do nothing more than send a message and bounce me off, same for hitting the boundry of void areas- ya bounce off and can't go forward.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-04-2009 19:36
From: Doggie Jigsaw

There are no ban lines there, the walls are at the perimeter of the sim, when you cross into the next sim by going over the walls in an object with the flight script in it, you lose control like I said, and controls become extremely sensitive and go weird, I don't know how to make it any clearer than that,
You don't have to. I know exactly what you're talking about.
From: someone
it has nothing to do with how much time I fly and everything to do with going over those walls across sim lines, and the speed- 40M/sec.
40m/s is pretty damn fast. It takes about 7s to perform a sim handoff. So by the time you regain control after crossing the sim boundary, you've gone 280m. A sim is only 256m across. So by the time you've been handed off to the next sim, it's time for you to be handed off to the one after that. Is it any surprise you have problems?

If you go slower, then most of the time you have a chance to recover before another sim crossing. Unless there's ban lines on the other side of the boundary so the sim has to handle the handoff *and* handle bouncing you off the ban lines at the same time. Or unless there's a bit of lag and the handoff takes longer than usual. Then things go a bit wonky. And the more often you do it... well, the odds build up.

From: someone
Flight without a vehicle
is irrelevant to this.

I *do* understand flight in SL. I wrote the script in your flight feather.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Doggie Jigsaw
New Mexico, Arizona 1860s
Join date: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 52
02-05-2009 20:18
From: Argent Stonecutter
You don't have to. I know exactly what you're talking about.
40m/s is pretty damn fast. It

Is it any surprise you have problems?


None whatsoever, which is why I try to stay INSIDE the sandbox's perimeter walls, but sometimes the scene changes so rapidly in a turn it's easy to get disoriented and flip the vehicle upside down and go over the wall, sometimes I can get back in sometimes I can't.


From: someone
If you go slower, then most of the time you have a chance to recover before another sim


I like FAST, and approx 40 m/s is somewhere around 70 mph

From: someone
I *do* understand flight in SL. I wrote the script in your flight feather.


Yeah I see that
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
02-06-2009 03:20
From: Doggie Jigsaw
I like FAST, and approx 40 m/s is somewhere around 70 mph
More like 90 mph, actually.

In Havok 1 the absolute speed limit in SL was 50 m/s, in Havok 4 it's been increased, but sim handoff has gotten hairier - particularly if you're running mono scripts.

For long distance vehicle travel, where you need to do a lot of sim crossings, each with their handoff problems... I don't go more than 8 m/s.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Yevad Doobie
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 121
02-08-2009 06:53
From: Harmony Levee
I think my issue with ban-lines(which I have used them on my own parcels before for privacy). Is when they affect waterways or roads. I also enjoying going on long SL drives across 20-30 sims that have interconnected roads. Also waterways that are interconnected. I have hit banlines and it basically ruins the day out with the kids(haha). Maybe make them so somehow they wont be in the water or on the public roads?



A couple of tips. In the top menus under view, you can select to turn on property lines. This shows the continuation of any public access routes quite clearly, although when traveling on water, this can be of limited use, as the lines show on the ground, thus under the water.

I have found a tool since beginning this thread which gives you a second mini-map and highlights the areas surrounded by ban-lines. It doesn't see across into the next sim, but is still a very useful tool. It costs 500L and can be found here :

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Talakin/96/192/2
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