Second Hand Shops?

To further elaborate on my previous post I agree with Chips sentiment here and understand it as how it pertains to Reality.

Unfortunately my post previously was based on the infastructure and tools available to us in the Realm of Second Life.

Unfortunately we do not have legal systems which as Chip has eluded to here to protect the creators. In Real Life people would have to be granted a Trade Mark License agreement to be a "Qualified" reseller of goods via that method.

However, when a store is created in the context of a "Goodwill" or a "Thrift" shop those types of stores are like Yadni's Junk Yards so to speak. They are 1 and 2 Items here and there.

In my previous reply I noted options that Chip has at his disposal. Yes simplistic as they may be they are simply the tools we currently have in Second Life.

Please do not get me wrong I believe people should have the right to resell if the creator made them Transfer.
Subconciously I agree with Chip/Aimee and others that I do not wish that my Items be bought in bulk and resold that reflects back on the ego side of my personality though. However, on the flip side of that coin goes back to the premise that every customer that comes in contact with something I make is a potential future customer to my establisment. Again of the items bought in bulk I have made my sale thus shouldn't be moraly screaming over spilt milk so to speak.

Its hard to debate both sides of the fence when you can see the pros and cons of each argument. Yet, knowing the aruguments in essence ballance out when considering the current system in which we have to work with.

What is the true solution to all of this?
With SL still being in its infancy none can really say.
But, I "feel" (Feel being subjective in relation to my opinion) that currently we have to focus and work within the parameters of the tools afforded us.

Shadow

But as far as I can see, that's just an argument for why not to go into business as a reseller, and not anything further.

I don't think resellers have much value to add in SL, especially if they're just more stores like the one they're reselling products from. I certainly wouldn't want to try make a go of things as a reseller, because I can't think of any value I would add to the consumer.

On the other hand, I can imagine someone making a successful go of things as a personal shopper (finding things the end user would not have known to find) or as an aggregator of items for sale by producers who don't want the hassle of opening their own stores.

Shadow I disagree. There is allot of assumption in that statement. For one, you are assuming that if someone bought 15 of the same item from chip, he would easily sell all 15. If he did sell all 15 then he would go back and buy 15 more. In this scenario chip got 15 sales without having to do any marketing on his own. Hence less time he spent earning those 15 sales.

Now if the buyer has trouble selling those 15 items, then he would have to cut the prices to move them. He would sell all 15 for say half price. He doesn’t have 16 or 18, only 15, so I don’t see how this would cause the market to get over flooded. Either way Chip made 15 sales.

Resale is a vital part of an economy and helps spread wealth around. People are also assuming that just because you are a content creator, you are a marketing expert also. By not separating retail and creation, less wealth will be spread around, less money is being spent, and fewer products will be sold.

Separate the two; you would enable a creator to focus on nothing but their products, making them better. Marketing people would be able to do what they do best and push a product on to the general population.

I blame this refusal to separate the two on fear and fear alone. Most creators are afraid they will not have total control over their products and that someone else may also profit on their creations. People making money off your product are NOT always a bad thing though. The market would still be demand driven. They would still have control over what they wholesale their product for.

I can’t find a downside to this except for the faulty permissions. I think the only thing a creator needs to ask themselves, would you rather cash out big early, or cash out in smaller amounts over a long period of time.

To anyone thinking of running a business in the resale trade. Please try to also understand the concern that content creators have. As a creator I can tell you that a lot of hours each week go into my products. I put as much time into SL as I do my real life job. Instead of just showing up and buying a bunch of bulk, you really may want to speak with the creator and come to some kind of deal with them. Your business will not last to long if you piss off the people supplying your products all the time. A commission based business paying you a percentage of sales would put creators at ease as well as put some L$ in your account balance.

I guess all I'm saying is there are people really good at creating, and others really good at marketing. Allowing both to focus on their primary skill would keep money flowing, which would raise GOM, which would make more people more money than there is now.

I don't mean to suggest that you're making those kind of value judgments in a conscious way. I think it's more of a subconscious conditioning that affects a good many people on the consumer rights side of these kinds of arguments. (which is what the original Rand quote was about). There's a tendency to assume that someone who has any kind of power of control over their own creations (and consequently control over those who desire those creations) are greedy or exploitative people by default. This seems very backwards to me since the only way desire factors into the equation is other people deisring the fruits of that person's production. I think your arguments are coming from a similar place. I know that the conscious intent of your argument is no more personal than mine, so we'll call it a wash

Well I think this statement is why I haven't really been passionate about this argument. I agree with Chip that the creators should have a say in redistribution rights of their transferrable goods. But I don't think there will ever be enough of a market for "*PREEN*... BUT WITH A MARKUP!" to ever give me concern.

So I am going to join Chip in exiting this debate until I find reseller activity that is causing a negative impact on my sales.

Valid points Beau, but there's more to it than that. I lost something in those 15 sales too... those 15 people were not introducted to my store or my other products. The association created in their mind is with the store they purchased from. When someone sees someone wearing one of my skins and says "wow, that's a great skin. Where can I get one?" I'd prefer that person to answer "It's a Chip Midnight skin" rather than "I got it from Bob's Thingamabobs." They now own my product which is always a good thing, but I've not built a relationship with that customer or had them connect my product to me directly. The value of that isn't trivial.

Now thats an interesting Idea something I kind of eluded to previously months ago about a sales force for retailers.

Unfortunately it was met with such disdain that I dropped it immediately.

Hope your reception of the Idea is a much more welcome one.

Sincerely, Shadow

Maybe so, but I certainly don't intend to have such a bias. I like creating things for Second Life, and if the motherboard on my primary computer hadn't died on Friday, I'd have some on the market by now.

And I'm definitely grateful for all the cool stuff other people have made.

Im gonna give the second hand shop a whirl and see how it goes. I wont be buying bulk just buying items from people who dont want something anymore. I also wont buy anything if a creator has objected against it so if you would like to either send me an im or state here whether or not you mind or items being sold and resold. I set some terms out earlier which can be read on here.

Also if your a creator for the idea who wants me to include a notecard about there store so if one of there items is resold it tells them about where they can find more great items by that creator.

Sounds great, Heather. Good Luck with your venture

I think that's a great idea Heather. Good luck. You have my blessing to sell any things of mine that come your way. Just two requests... if anyone brings you a bunch of the same item, or brings you an item that has the copy permission enabled, please let me know. I hope it takes off for you.

I'm going to picket.

Just kidding. Best of luck to you Heather.

Thanks for the the good lucks


And Chip ill keep an eye out for any dodgy looking geezers in long coats trying to sell to me in bulk.

Beau, I think you missinterpreted as you only quoted a portion of the entire stament.

Let me show you what I meant and maybe clarify it a little simpler.

Reseller A buys 15 of Chips things, Yes?

Chip Sells not only those 15 to the Reseller but 15 to 15 other customers.

There are still 30 Items produced as 15 are in the hands of consumers and 15 are in the hands of the Reseller.

Now Multiply this suppose same said reseller sells all 15 at mark up and returns for 15 more. Subsequentially Chip sells 30 more during this duration.

Now the Market as a whole has 75 Items on the market which then would lead to your analogy of the reseller having to reprice his product to take a loss. But at the same time supports my analogy of flooding the market.

Now, in one respect Chip I have to agree in the context that you have lost that "Getting to know the customer". However with the tools afforded us in SL being as most of the Items we are talking here are Clothing and manufactured Prim goods all have a Creator Tag.

Lately 9 times out of 10 I have noted that people who IM me or contact me are not through secondary sales vendors but through the Item itself.

That Item although being sold through a retailer still has my name on it. Thus through the analogy mentioned here I have just doubled my potential customer base soely based on the fact that my name is in the creator slot.

Unfortunately its a double edged sword one that cuts at the creators ego due to it was not them that initially met the person and cuts through the falicy that a reseller is a detriment to the creator as the product still bears the name of the creator.

It's no different than a Chevrolet being sold at a Toyota dealership as a used product. If the Chevrolet they purchase gives them good service who will they return to the Toyota Dealership or the Chevrolet Dealership?

Now with that aspect in mind those individuals contact me based off of who created it in the Creators slot.
Then through decent customer service I either gain a new loyal customer or as a good merchant I refer them to the betters in the field.
Hence my opinion that every one that comes in contact with my product is a potential future customer.

Thus, I will close here and Beau it was not an attack merely an interpretation of how I percieved you recieving the context of my previous statment. I hope my analogy here cleared that up somewhat.

I think I will bow out of this thread as well as at this point we are all debating symantics. Each turn leads down a circular path that comes right back to the well spring.
None of which truly offer concrete solutions to the problem at hand as many of the ideas to even include mine are speculative and based on personal preference.

I bid thee all good day

Sincerely, Shadow

Chip, brand brand brand brand.

It's not so much having the customer know who made their product. It's more the matter that I lost out on others sales I might have made having them in my store and surrounded by my products. There's no potential for them to say "wow this is a great place. I'm going to landmark it and tell my friends about it." They'll send their friends to the reseller's store and I'm far less likely to get additional sales of other products from those referrals. You're right though in that ten different people will have ten different opinions in terms of benefit or harm, which is why it all boils down to a need for consent

Heather I didnt see that you were going to make a go of it until Ihad posted my response to Beau.

I support your Idea and wish you the best of luck with it and following the basic premise that Chip mentioned.

You have my blessing as well for individual Items of mine coming to you not in a box.
If they are in a box please IM me immediately as apparently its one of two things a very old article or a copy.

For Resellers that want to purchase Items in bulk from me contact me in world and we will work out a negotiable arrangement depending on the product. Some product will be off limits as those are 1 to 1 customer relations type Items and cannot be serviced by a Reseller.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver

Chip I agree in the context of the Consent factor.

However, I wont argue the other points as I mentioned earlier its hard to debate both sides of the fence when you can see both points of view.
Sadly enough both points are very valid within the limitations of the tools Linden Lab has set for us.

Shadow

water balloons at ten paces then?



Agreed.

No passion? Sheesh. Shenanigans. I call shenanigans on you.






As an aside, since I am apparently so in favor of one person's ability to lucrate over another's efforts, and this is apparenlyt an evil thing, I've decided that if I should ever have a daughter her name will be Lucratzia.

LMAO I can see it now....

"Hi I'm Lucratzia...((as she pulls out the suburo)) now give me all your money dammit!!!"

The muggie walks off muttering Lucratzia...

$5L to the first person who can guess what her middle name will be

Im not that desperate...LOL however, make it 500k and I will start guessing...LOL

It's all open and running now a few things have been traded and all the creators involved have been sent a msg. All have been fine so far

Olopue (240,84) This is where im based for now if you wanna check it out hopefully over a bit of time it will fill up a bit more but so far so good

Who was that individual? I'd like to buy her a drink.