RL Illnesses

All too often, we see people here question other people's mental states, and the saddest thing is, they do it quite casually, without even seeming to think.

So I'd like to talk a little abut illnesses, both mental and physical. I stated in the forums just the other day that I myself take meds for depression. I have for 10 years now and quite frankly, they've saved my life. But I still wince when i see those cute words "someone forgot to take their meds", cause yah - that hits close to home.

Some folks who know me in-world also know that I'm disabled. I take pain meds and nerve meds and tons-o-other meds, every single damn day. And yes, sometimes they make me fuzzy - which, quite frankly, is what they're supposed to do. They help dull the physical pain.

What very few people know is that 1 year ago next month, my husband committed suicide. No need to go into details, and no I'm not looking for sympathy - this is just a simple fact. I'm telling you here because I'm pointing out that I know about mental illness. I know about physical illness. And believe me, neither is easy - and when you combine the two, it's damn damn hard.

Torley has spoken out a great deal here about her condition, and in my eyes, she's a hero for that. The more people understand, the better it is for all of us. So I'm asking you all to please, try to understand. Try to remember that you don't know who's behind the other keyboard. You don't know if they're physically fit and were president of the debate team in high school, or of it's someone typing from a wheelchair, who needs help with even the simplest tasks of day to day living.

There are many of us out here. Folks who are depressed, physically ill, disabled, sometimes just plain misunderstood. SL seemed to us to be a place where we could shed our limitations and fly free. So if we misspell words or use bad grammar or don't complete a thought process as perfectly as others might - please, think about who you may be typing to, before you post a nasty response questioning their mental state.

Your my hero dollface. I'm not perfect either.

Lupus Foundation of America, Inc.

No I will not go into any details with these forums. Other than to say I have my good days and I have my bad days.

When you are talking to ppl in the fourms please be kind to each other.

Cat

Thanks for your post Claire. I do my best to treat others how I would like to be treated and have patience with those that need a little extra attention. Thanks for the reminder to keep myself in check, its easy to be baited by something that may mean nothing at all.

I've had it with this. I just read that now locked poll. A poll that need never have been locked, had that not been the agenda of certain people. A thread in which I just read the single worst thing I have ever read on these forums.

The most destructive, most vicious, meanest, and most underhanded thing I've ever read here or anywhere, or even ever heard anything comparable irl.

This is why I warn my friends about SL. Never have I seen so many cruel people, who live for meanness, congregated on one message board. Some people, of course, are merely thoughtless, and think they are just being cool, and some think they are being chic with their flippant remarks - a little bit of that sort of thing could be overlooked. But some really do live for being mean, and really are cruel, and this is their arena for practicing that cruelty, unhindered and unfettered. They peck and peck, and at the first sign of weakness, move in for the kill. And the chic ones push that agenda forward. And the rest of us - stand by and try to keep out of the line of fire.

I know there are many, many people in this game. That's why it is WRONG to allow some people to relentlessly harrass and smear other players on the boards. And it matters not if the other player is strong and healthy, or has real-life ailments, or has suffered real-life losses. It's wrong in any case.

Allowing this sort of behavior on the boards means many decent people don't care to come on them. The boards should be a welcoming place for all. Not a place where people smear other people's reputations, dog their every post, make snide comments, and cheer when the person leaves - or is banned. Not a place where lynch mobs - no matter how big or small - hold sway over everyone. While everyone else tries not to stick their neck out.

In that now-locked thread, I believe it was stated that one person was mentally unstable and should leave the forums anyway. As if everyone felt the same way! As if it were commonly agreed on!

Who else is willing to speak up against this? How many people are we going to watch ripped to shreds this way? With bold, clear messages that they should leave? That they don't have a RIGHT to the forums. That they are OUTSIDERS.

Is this what we want?

Is this what any of us can feel proud to be associated with?

Is this good for the game?

I am not talking about who likes or doesn't like who. Or who agrees or doesn't agree with who. I'm talking about decent standards of behavior. And I'm talking about a bunch of vultures attacking one individual, over and over, till they draw blood.

This is ridiculous. I will not - CANNOT - stand by and see people do this to other people.

People, don't let this happen! If it happens to one person - not to mention two, three and more - there is no guarantee it won't happen to you.

How many people are we going to stand by and watched ruined, run off, unnecessarily made miserable, and even banned, by a few cutthroat individuals?

I'm tired of standing by and watching it happen. I think one thing we could do is make a petition to submit to the Lindens to rewrite the TOS to stop some of these practices and make the forums a welcoming place for all. Anyone interested in helping me to draft this petition, please IM me either here on in the game.

First and foremost among it, I would like to add to hate speech the concept of maligning someone's mental health. Not to mention suggesting they are bad for the boards because of it and should leave. This amounts to hate speech, and discrimination against those with or WITHOUT any degree of mental illness. Particularly considering they are in absolutely no position to diagnose! If I were going to diagnose, believe me, it's not Catherine I would be diagnosing as unstable.

How is it that some people get to start some slander, then continue it forever? Who voted them God? And why are they allowed to do this?

No one should be able to harrass another on the basis by saying the other person is mentally unstable or anything else. First off - they're wrong. Second off - it's harrassment and hate speech as surely as that based on color, nationality, age, or any other factor. And there are other forms of slander, using other words but the same technique, that go on without restraint in these forums, day in and day out.

The things that go on in these forums, were they done in the real world, would be met with fat lawsuits for slander, defamation of character, discrimination, and damage to a person's business. I wouldn't be surprised if that weren't the result here, too, one of these days.

We need to fix this. IM me if you are interested.

coco

Coco... it's not SL. It's these forums. Really, please try and see that. SL has a tremendous potential. Let's not wreck it becasue the small number of posters here who can't resist a fight.

On topic: I take meds for the dysthymia aspect of Aspergers, as well as social anxiety disorder and seasonal affective disorder. So, yes, it annoys me as well when I see such things used so flippantly.

Slightly off topic: These forums suffer from poisonous personalities. They are binary and trinary in nature, however. No one person is the problem, instead it's certain interactions between two or more, which often build into the interactions of many. It would do the forums a very great deal of good if people would get over the misguided idea that muting someone who often goads them (albeit unintentionally, or for intentionally for that matter) into personal attacks is somehow immoral or unreasonable. It doesn't even have to be permanent, just long enough to get past the emotional reaction.

If you can't discuss the idea without also discussing the person, all you've added is noise. Take the time to step away. Let the emotion subside. If you're angry because you've actually been attacked, then - with a clearer head - you can report the post. If you were angry or upset becasue the idea itself seemed that wrong to you, then you'll be able to reply to the idea with more clarity. If the person who angered or upset you does so constantly, then you should consider muting them. It's a waste of time and effort to be constantly knocked off balance over leisure time activities like SL.

There will be ideas that you're going to reject - weather you're in the majority or minority in relation to that idea, you must be prepared to be disagreed with. One of the things that will happen to you: Your argument will be picked clean. You will be told where your facts are in question - aspects of your idea or opinion you may not have considered in-depth. For the less experienced especially, this can cause a state of cognative dissonance that is upsetting. If you're not prepared to back off and get past the emotional reaction, it will trip you. This fumble is often the first step in having a thread tumble into a useless quarrel.

I know everyone here not in danger of being outed as underage knows this all at some level. I think that as forum attendance grows alongside SL's population, it would be wise to start putting the knowlege to good use. We have the opportunity to forge a "forum culture" that leans far more toward discussion and argument (in the strictest meaning of the word) rather than infighting and quarrels.

I commend you for this post, yes people can be very callous without even realizing it and some are just doing it to be mean and that's pathetic.

*hugs Claire* I've just recently (July 1st) been put on meds and they are messing with me big time. Those of us that are taking meds, for whatever reason, endure what others take for granted. Thank you for sharing a part of you with us. I for one, don't feel so alone.

I commend you for your post. I know that it is very difficult (even without going into details) to be so honest about such things. & I too agree that people at the very least at times do lack sensitivity & yes, others are just plain hateful.

I have found in my time in SL (close to 2 years now) a great many people who have medical issues and/or disabilities. SL is a great place for people to be able to open up & be free to do things that their RL limitations leave them unable to do in RL.

I too have alot of medical issues. Additionally, I have 2 children with medical issues & with that the oldest of my 2 children Has Aspergers Syndrome, Non verbal learning Disorder, social anxiety disorder (provoked by the other issues) & more.

What alot of people also don't realize is that many of us were "healthy" once upon a time too. Illnesses of any kind do not discriminate. They can strike anyone at any time during their life.

For so many seemingly intelligent people in SL & the forums you would think there would be much less ignorance & hate then there is. It saddens me to see how sometimes people are like this in ANY life.

On a positive note, I have also found a great deal of nice people & to me they usually make up for the one's who aren't so nice.

I wish you (& everyone) encountering these issues the best of luck. & if every you need to bend an ear please feel free to IM me.

*hugs*

Malana

coco,

This has been an ongoing problem for as long as I can remember. On these forums there are periodic outbursts of bullying, in which quite often people who are normally nice and reasonable, join in with glee.

Prokofy was the latest victim. Before Prokofy there were Fizik Baskerville, Catherine Cotton and Candie Apple. None of them was perfect, and all of them made errors of judgement on the forums. But what they received was totally out of proportion, and was nothing but a witch-hunt.

Note also, that the majority of them have been women.

Second Life is full of people with various disabilities which could make their postings erratic. Although it's worth bearing in mind that some of the disabilities themselves can be responsible for disagreeable postings - I remember that not long ago we had someone on here with Asperger's Syndrome whose postings were without exception full of bile.

But it is very ugly when you see the mob mentality take hold. The collective IQ drops alarmingly, and people seem to be unaware of how revolting the sentiments are that they are expressing.

I don't think it's possible to stop it, once it's in full flow - all you can do is to try to remain calm, and point out to individuals the unfairness of what they are doing.

Second Life is a playground, and it's unfortunate that it seems to bring with it the worst aspects of the playground mentality.

Very well done. I agree.

"No one is perfect...sadly...some never stop trying to be"

That is the wisest communication I've seen in the forums for a long time. Thank you!

I know how it feels to have people look and talk about you because you different. In Jan of this year I was told that i had canser. Lost all my hair and everybody looks and talks about me like I am a freek.
My life is not to easy. I know were you all are coming from. All of you are in my prayers.

Disclaimer: This post is NOT about anyone in particular.

Responsibility for the tone of the forums belongs to everyone. Everyone has buttons that when pushed can cause them to behave in less than diplomatic ways. That's simply human nature. I agree that snarky comments that make assumptions about someone's mental health are uncalled for, but I also think if someone truly does have a mental condition that predisposes them to push people's buttons or post in an extremely negative way on a regular basis, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't excuse them from their own responsibility, even if they truly can't help themsleves. Expecting others to greet erratic, irrational, or incessantly negative behavior with unerring kindness is unreasonable and a bit naive.

In my personal opinion, the behavior that most causes people to be greeted with consistently hostile replies is negativity. When an individual poster routinely posts in a very negative way, be it complaints, a persecution complex, inapporpriate drama, or whatever else, especially if it's the same theme repeated over and over again, after a while people are going to get tired of it and are likely to respond with something that's less than diplomatic. I'm not saying that makes it necessarily excusable or advocating "blame the victim," but I am saying that the responsibility goes both ways.

If someone's behavior, due to a medical predisposition or not, causes them to routinely push a lot of people's buttons which in turn brings them unpleasant responses, that's unfortunate, but entirely predictable. Prokofy was a pefect example. He was not a victim. After a couple of months of posting the same themes over and over and over again, and being met with increasing hostility each time, there came a point where he no longer deserved any sympathy. He continued to post the same negative and hostile themes with full knowledge of how it would be received and how it made other people feel. It's like poking a sibling over and over and then, when they hall off and punch you, crying "Mom! She hit me!"

As an extreme example... take someone with advanced Tourette's Syndrome who is shouting out obscenities. They can't help themselves, and it's very sad that they have that condition, but the fact that it's involuntary isn't going to make the people who are subjected to it appreciate it any more.

Hey Cat - I hope you stop by and talk with me sometime. I'm another Lupus survivor (going on 10 years now)!

/*** hugs

Rose

AheM... please drop the "ranting about the forums" at the door. There are plenty of threads about it already.


That said, Second Life offers a unique opportunity for several people with similar illnesses and ideology about them to form. This is pretty much the way it should be.

And, for every negative example of people being "misunderstood" or just plain "out there to cause pain," I can cite three examples of people out there willing to help and empathize with those of us who have trouble coping. The simple fact that "negative examples" are more visible doesn't mean good people aren't there.

One good example that's seen some media attention: http://www.supportforhealing.com/

Speaking as someone that tries to empathize with people (ironic from my posts, yes?), I'm usually fairly open and contribute to causes like this one. I feel that instead of quabbling over the problem, we should genuinely look into helping with the human element - by being kind ourselves to others that may be less fortunate.

That is, to me, the first step - including just on these forums. It's an outlook that could see more use both in daily life and here.

Catherine didn't do a dang thing wrong in either of those threads, and you know it, Chip.

coco

P.S. I'll talk about what I want to as it is relevant to the thread, which it is. I don't notice ME constantly telling this and that person to stop talking about what he or she is talking about.

In fact, I don't notice anywhere in any other forums so many people who decide for themselves who can say what - and SAY so out loud. Very cheeky.

Moreover, this same rotten behavior is NOT LIMITED to anyone with a condition of any kind, whether or not that condition somehow "brings on" crappy, inhumane behavior from other posters. To hell with that "brings it on" theory anyway, Chip, to hell with it all the way to hell in each and every case you try to pose it to me.

And moreover again, I repeat - Catherine didn't do a thing wrong in either of those threads to merit that crappy, inhumane behavior. In fact, virtually no one on the receiving end of the same crappy behavior I've seen over and over and over ever DOES merit it. It's just crappy, PERIOD. Crappy. Lousy behavior. A rotten way to treat people. Under any and all circumstances.

And moreover, finally, I guess maybe it's just too much fun for everybody to have all this drama than it would be to inject the forums with a modicum of acceptable behavior and then moderate it. The fact that people are unfairly hurt and the GAME suffers as a result is less of a consideration than the thrill of being able to say whatever the heck comes into one's mind, conscious-free. Not to mention the further thrill of piling on - which is in my opinion possibly the most despicable (and most dangerous) behavior ever witnessed in the human race.

Well, I'll tell you what, people. Life is too short for all this. If the rest of you don't care what happens to people on these forums - and in my opinion that means you don't care what happens to the game - then I don't see why I should stick my neck out all the time trying to clean up these snake pits of sadistic behavior.

I really don't see how anyone can stand by calmly for all this, much less be an apologist for it. Crimininity anyway. Don't people even CARE? I really, really don't understand it. I've never seen it anywhere before.

There is some point at which I'm going to just have to conclude that, for whatever reasons, this game has attracted some of the nastiest people around, and spending time with such people is a bad thing for me to do.

I'm the kind of person it UPSETS to have to witness bullying and harassment, especially day after day after day after day. To ANYONE. Each and every case is important. It's not, "oh, that's just so-and-so."

It really does upset me. And when there are no police around to stop it - and when I can't seem to get anyone ELSE TO CARE - then what the heck am I doing here?

It's no fun for me to watch people bullied and harrassed from one thread to the next, regardless of what the thread is about or what they say. It's unfair, it's illogical, and it's cruel. Why is no one else doing anything about it?

Should I hang in here trying to make the forums welcome for EVERYONE? Or should I just give it up?

I pose the question, because I have noticed I have had a few dreams lately where people are being violent. Life is short. I have a lot of nice people in my life, including in my virtual life, in other forums. Should I cause myself needless (and apparently endless) pain by watching brutality on these boards every day, and objecting to it over and over in the hopes of changing the tone, or should I just give it up and go elsewhere. Which is a hard question for me, because for me games always go hand in hand with the forums. But if I'm gonna be all alone in this forever, well, I just don't know.

I keep resisting that, but you know, some day I'm probably going to have to leave the forums to the few who insist on piling on others, and then making excuses for the piling on. Particularly since LL doesn't seem to care.

And if and when I do, the PR I give this game when I tell what it's like is gonna be pretty terrible. Both in writing, and to my friends in other games.

coco

P.S. Don't tell me about other forums out there on the net that are so much more vicious. That's different. This is a game, a growing game, and the forums are what gets presented to the world. It should not be allowed to be like those vicious free-for-alls out there on the net, which nobody cares about anyway, cause everybody knows they are just free-for-alls and they leave if they don't enjoy that. With official forums for a game, it's different.

Coco, I assume you saw the very first line of my post where I said that it wasn't about anyone in particular?

Boy, you're fast, Chip. Yes, I did. So?

coco

Moving happily along, do either of you have anything relevant to add to the points I raised?

/120/f1/52380/1.html#post552939

Asking questions is not telling someone not to talk about something. In fact, it's just the opposite.

The problem as I see it, and it is growing, is the propensity for folks to take extreme umbrage at being questioned about topics they bring to the public square, especially when said topics could have an effect on all SLers.

Then we have the hyperbole - it never fails, if I say 1000, someone turns that into 1 million, and so on.

Questions are called attacks. It's a mechanism to dismiss a poster with questions, through exaggeration and by assigning malicious intent.

If one person is abrasive, everyone who has asked honest questions is labeled as a hater who is trying to shut the idea down.

Can we please deal with people as individuals? I think that is a BIG part of the disconnect here - not taking what people say, who may ask questions or offer another viewpoint, as individual thought.

It's extremely insulting to me, to be labeled as part of a "collective", as I was in that Imagi Nation thread. Most of the people with questions and other views in that thread I don't even know! I don't hang out with ANY of them. SO please, let us be individuals - you cry so loudly to be recognized for independent thought, yet, at the first sign of another viewpoint your ready to wag your fingers and scream, "group think!"

I have RL medical problems too. I was nearly killed in a traffic accident in 1988 - I still live with the after effects of that to this day. I have suffered with severe GI problems my entire life, bad skin allergies, and have had bouts of depression. I have female family members who have Lupus, and others with RA, skin cancer, etc. I have lost MANY loved ones to leukemia, colon cancer, heart failure, and other diseases. I don't believe that these facts should cause you to behave any differently towards me on these forums. Not to mention - you didn't know about them until just now, and the same goes for myself and others who were simply asking questions - we did not know.

My post was not ranting about the forums Jeffrey. I believe that a mental illness does not absolve someone of their responsibility for the tone in which ideas are exchanged which was relevant to the original post. As for your post linked above, I pretty much agree that tolerance is a good thing and that it's wonderful that there's support available for people who have difficulties. Having said that, I treat people as rational adults who should be able to handle criticism and differences of opinion. I don't make assumptions about people's mental health. That means I won't write off someone's opinion as being the result of an illness, but it also means I won't give anyone a free pass which would require me to assume they have one. Like I said in my first post, it goes both ways.

I'd like to thank everyone for their supportive comments. I'm truly touched, and don't feel quite so alone now.

I'd like to point out that I'm not making excuses for myself or for anyone. We're each ultimately responsible for our own actions and our own decisions. However, I AM trying to raise awareness.

While the internet in general is an amazing means of communication (in fact, I met my late husband online in 1988, we were married almost 14 years when he died), you simply DO NOT KNOW who is behind the other keyboard.

It could be someone with a medical condition, it could be someone with a mental condition, it could be someone who's had a really sucky day, it could be someone who gets their rocks off in various spiteful ways, it could be someone who is truly reaching out a helping hand. The point is, you simply DO NOT KNOW.

Nobody here is in a position to "diagnose" anyone else. Nobody is really in a position to judge anyone else. Because you DO NOT KNOW. That being the case, all that I'm asking is that we try to be gentle with each other, and try not to make hurtful comments.

Now, somebody stop me before I start singing "Kumbaya".

Claire, I agree with everything you just said

Erm, if a person had a broken leg, would you hold them responsible for keeping up with thier jogging regimin? I thought not. Roughly the same thing here, except that - depending on the particulars - Hypothetical Poster may not be in a position to cognate thier disability and/or its effects. That's why I belive there comes a point when you have to cut them off, use the mute function. Constantly engaging someone who is consistently or sequentially returning attacks, flames, modified opinions, dyslogia, or similar doens't work for anyone.