I thought John Kerry was supposed to be smart?

It was an expression, and a common one at that David. My appologies if you took it personally, which was not intended.

This is simply a liberally bias fantasy and an opinion. Please provide REAL proof so we can begin the prosecution.

Let's all say it together shall we... COP OUT!

It is easy to toss around insults and rhetoric not based in facts. Too often those are the tactics of liberals. Hate and jealousy serve no good purpose whatsoever.

Because they lost and arent finished crying about it Leck.

No, I haven't. I have heard his conversations with other people. Lupo, I hate to break it to you, but an IQ score doesn't really measure how smart you are. It's just a number that indicates you did well in a test. IQ tests have been refuted for years by top professionals in psychology and education, so for a lot of people they don't really mean much anymore. I don't even know why you keep bringing IQ up in this thread, as the point was Bush's grades... which have nothing to do with IQ.

I still think Bush is an idiot.

Grades mean nothing. When I was 16 years old, my mother took me to psychologist in NYC for a full blown, 6 hour IQ test. I placed 2 points below the maximum. However, my grades in high school & college (the first time I went to college, that is) were atrocious. It wasn't until I returned to college the second time at the age of 29 that school became important enough to me that I got good grades. It's somewhat ironic I suppose that the first time around, all that was important were the grades themselves and they were terrible, and the second time I couldn't have cared less about grades and they were great, a real testiment to the effectiveness of the grading system.

Whether someone did or didn't apply himself decades ago as a youngster is hardly a measure of his intelligence. George W. Bush is more than a bit dimwitted. That's obvious every time he opens his mouth. John Kerry is vastly more intelligent. Again, this is evident whenever you hear him speak.

Regardless of your political affiliations or persuasions, you can't just ignore what's obvious about people. If you're a Bush fan then you should like him for what he is, chowder head and all. The fact that Kerry is smarter shouldn't matter to you.


EDIT: Just noticeed Leilany's post.

Let me respond to your notion that IQ tests don't measure intelligence. To that I would say yes and no. First, the notion that intelligence is something that can be quantified & measured at all is somewhat rediculous, but once you get past that (if it's possible) there is some merrit to "real" IQ tests conducted by qualified psychologists. They can target areas of extreme ability, pinpoint learning disabilities, identify problem solving approaches linked to persoanality types, etc. In this regard they can be extremely valuable. However, just what "intelligence" actually is, let alone how to test it, is a subject of debate.

For example, is Rain Man intelligent? (I mean the real Rain Man, the guy the movie was based on, Kim Peek) By many standards, the answer is no, he's an idiot. He can't even understand how to dress himself or locate the silverware drawer in his house. But by other standards the answer is he's an undenyable genius. He remembers every single fact he's presented with, and he can calculate huge mathmatical equasions as fast or faster than any computer on the planet. So can we call him "intelligent"? Who knows. Perhaps intelligence, like beauty, is in the eye (or mind) of the beholder.

Whatever the definition of intelligence may be, I'm fairly certain it starts with "Not George Bush".

You were mis-informed. Stop watching Faux news.

Start with reading the Downing Street Minutes, Billy. Then get back to me.

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memo.html

Easier still to just label the facts as "fantasy" rather than trying to rebutt them. That's not typical of the average conservative, but it is increasingly typical of President Rove and his sock puppet.

I was being both. Sarcastic and truthful. Most of the problems started under Clintons watch. The problem is really the President does not go bust people. Did Bush go bust them? No. Did they get busted on his watch? Yes. Did he try and cover it up? Not that I have seen but I would believe it.

Well i think its true that Kerry is more articulate then Bush.

Doesnt mean smarter.

His grades dont mean hes smarter or dumber either.

Gore is more articulate then Bush too. He hurt himself by being so blatant about it in the debate.

Often people that are plain spoken can gather respect. Andrew Jackson, George Washington and John Adams come to mind. Remember that Washington and Adams were contemporaries of Jefferson and Franklin - two extremely brilliant people. Yet they still were fit to lead.

Bush is plain spoken and a bit worse he stumbles on words. He has proven he can lead. He did a very good job in the days following 9/11. Whether he would have done better then Gore is moot. Since when the occasion arrose, he rose to meet it.

This is going to have a huge impact on peoples loyalties to a President. Bush is a proven leader.

I think hes probably a lot smarter than many of us liberals think. I think Reagan was too.

This doesnt mean his agenda and that of his party is Right, or Just, or will be effective.

Lots of very smart people agree with it. A lot of Equally intelligent people Disagree.

I prefer to point out where the things Bush and his party want to do is Unjust , Unconstitutional and Wrong.

IQ shows how Intelligent you are, but no not how smart you are. If you are Intelligent you can not be a idiot. Yes some people say they are not true measures some say they are. Most that talk against them is because it is to Leaned based. I am a poor speller hand had a problem taking it. The IQ test is about what your Intelligence is not how good you are at a learned thing. Fact is his IQ can’t be that bad. I would say most likely it’s Average. Average when did that become a bad word?

His grades, so what was your grades like? Did you get all As? And I take it you were in a TOP school so it's on a even playing field. And I take it you could get in to Yale, yes Daddy helped him get in but is Test and grades were high enough to get in just need Daddy to get him to the head of the list. Come on people you call him a Idiot about having AVERAGE grades at a Top School. You call him a Idiot because he is not a polished speaker. Sounds like people are grasping at air as they fall to me. Now don’t get me wrong. I HATE GWB. But I also don’t think much about the last 10 Presidents and If I look I beat you I didn’t like the 10 before that. Maybe I would only have liked the first few. Does not mater the fact is he was a Average Student in a Top School no mater how you shake it he is not a idiot.

Here Here! Well said! Right to the point.

Umm..so no matter what actual proof I show you it will be biased fantasy? That article obviously took real happenins into account, and many of them matters of public record. It's not conjecture, but actual events that took place.

Nice way to never accept things that go against your opinions though.

What proof would be good enough? If I was Ken Lay and told you myself? If I was at every meeting and recorded it on video? It's all there for the seeing, but admittedly, it is hard to see when you keep your eyes tightly closed.

The tactics of liberals? Omg Billy..lol. Yes..that's me..the mud-slinger. Those damn leftist democtrats with their smear campaigns and baseless accusations! Not like the republicans and the Bush administration that has shown nothing but honesty and integity.

Heheh..something tells me you've seen the same lies I have, seen them posted here many times, and will never, ever accept them as actual reality.

You can be intelligent and still be an idiot. I've met quite a few people like that IQ tests are wonky because they were made with certain type of people in mind. That doesn't mean the rest aren't smart enough. I do not care what Georgie's IQ is because it doesn't mean anything to me. I agree with you, he is average.

I don't care about his grades either and I think I already mentioned that... same as IQ, it's just a number and it's not all that good at measruing knowledge. My grades are beside the point because we're not talking about me, are we?

I think it's sad that you hate him, though.

I still think Bush is an idiot.

Why do you think he is a idiot? Because you dislike him or disagree with him? (If you are talking about his grades then yours should be shown too, he who is with out sine and all)

He comes across better when he doesn't try to use polysyllabic words. And if you were to talk fishing with him rather than politics, he'd probably seem pretty bright.

But he just keeps trying to use impressive words and pithy quotes, and time and again he makes himself look foolish.

Was it Forrest Gump that said, "Stupid is as stupid does"?

Ok, so how many here are willing to let millions/billions of people see what their college or university marks were?
You want to argue that one is smarter or dumber than the other? Frankly who cares about their college marks. A number does not make a person, their actions make that person. Frankly I know I am smarter than my university transcript would imply, I just was not fortuanate enough to have had a goal that I was willing to work to obtain. Give both men kudos, they opened up their school marks, knowing that they were not stunning straight A students, frankly that makes both men bigger, it is easy to show off high marks. But I am willing to bet that you had a million reasons to hide your poor ones from everyone.
I also noticed that someone said Kerry was stupid for paying $8,000 for a bike. Well I am willing to bet that person thinks nothing of spending $100-$200 for a bike, seriously when you have that much money, $8000 isn't very much at all.
I am not saying that they are smart men, or stupid men, but I am saying that both men must have their good points, and they probably have bad points too. Doesn't make one better than the other, just as it doesn't make them better or worse than most anyone else. It makes them human. Nobody is perfect, why do you expect it from your leaders?

Well said…..Oh and in 1894-1900 John Deere sold Bicycles (The Deere Roadster) for $85(with an option of wood or steel rims) (I was just at John Deere Commons {museum} over memorial day weekend). What would that be like today in inflasions?

2207.38

^^

http://www.halfhill.com/inflation.html

So 2207.38 for a wooeden wheel. Ok then. Maybe he is not that nuts. He seen the John Deere bike and thought hell I want something that will not dry rot and got a $8,000 bike.

Lupo, I think you missed the parts where I tell you I do not care about his grades. I've said it more than once, maybe I didn't state it clearly, so here goes again: I don't care about Georgie's grades, or anybody else's grades. To me, they are just a number that indicates they did well in a test, not that they're smart or stupid. I also said that my grades are beside the point because we are not talking about me (or Georgie's grades, for that matter).

Hopefully, with this post I'll get my points across:

1) I do not care about anybody's grades (especially not Georgie's).

2) Yes, you guessed it... I still think Bush is an idiot

The part in the () were I said IF was to show ok I got that but the reason your grades would be in there is that. But AGAIN WHY DO YOU THINK HE IS A IDIOT?

The article was an EXTREMELY liberal INTERPRETATION of events attempting to form some conspiracy theory between events that may or may have not happened.

For example, the writer claims that President Bush didn't cap Utility rates in California for the sole purpose of helping out his buddies when in fact it could just as easily be that he did so because it is not the roll of the federal government to interfere with state issues. This goes right in line with the Republican agenda of smaller government and more State and local control of their respective issues, not to help out Enron.

Proof is NOT speculation David. You have yet to show me ANY concrete proof of your accusation. If there was ANY hard, concrete proof of your accusation the Democrats would be all over it and President Bush would be impeached. There isn't ANY concrete proof so it is time to face that fact, let go of your bias and move forward. Hate and jealousy are distasteful when the only course of action is to tear down the other guy at all costs which is exactly why the Democrats and liberals, that's you, are no longer in power.