Guard systems, closed lands, kick aways and all kinds of..

I guess I would wish that your family was not harassed at all, and expect that people would have the decency to give her space in her home. But I am naive. At least you don't distrupt over flights of your land by wild girls in triplanes.

No way! I want to be able to deal with griefer types on my own without having to call on a Linden. (Of course, this means having to fix some things that don't currently work, and some additions to handle shortfalls. )

I also belive it is reasonable to expect a certain level of privacy for a "home", even if it does seem to miss a point of SL to keep out explorers.

Thank you for this.

I have worked very hard to find a compromise between the needs of the family and the needs of other SL residents. We did try the Linden supplied tools first but griefers always find a way around things. We sold our land and Moved 8 times in an effort to find a safe place. This was the last solution out there for us.

Let me clarify - by "banning," I meant those devices that kick you three Sims over or knock you out of your plane. I didn't mean the responsible use of privacy devices as outlined by the person above.

I don't like the way those red lines look to others, but that's not the fault of the person using them.

coco

My point was quite clear. She implied LL is doing nothing against people using scripts that bounce you far away. If she cant remember where she got pushed away by a security script, then how can she sit there and say nothing is being done about it?

Well, a portion of this is LL's fault... the "knock you out of your plane" thing is almost unvaoidable. As a vehicle maker, I can sympathise. But unfortunatly, though we've suggested solutions to LL, nothing has ever been implimented. The most common one is something to the effect of "on llTeleportAgentHome (or similar) return to owner any item that is being sat on by effected avatar".

Chris Wilde: ”My point was quite clear. She implied LL is doing nothing against people using scripts that bounce you far away. If she cant remember where she got pushed away by a security script, then how can she sit there and say nothing is being done about it?”



Its very easy dear man... they still exists.. thats why I can say that LL havent done anything about them...

Ban them.... we shouldent need such things in SL..

Ahh which is goes back to my original post in this thread. You want to remove the LSL function that makes this security script 'push' people. You do realize that many legitimate and fun uses of this same function exist and taking it out of LSL will kill those activities? Like I said before, start chipping away at our freedoms in SL and you start chipping away at what makes SL fun and unique. No use complaining about a security script until you can suggest ideas to replace the code you want to remove from LSL that would affect other aspects of SL.

Too bad there isnt a setting to make your character immune to pushes. Sure there are attachments you can wear that run scripts to help fight them but that shouldnt be required. We just need better land owner and user tool sets from LL. That is what we should be asking for not the removal or reduce of our current tools.

Chris - feel free to ask LL - for that then))

Why not start a new thread... *wink wink*

Certain areas seem to have a lot of those property owners who bump, ban, or tp any unsuspecting person who's just trying to get from A to B. I would look at that aspect if I were in the market to buy land. That does nothing to help me when I'm exploring or going on a visit, though.

I guess you missed my point. Until things like I mentioned are in place, there wont be a solution to your problem. I highly doubt LL would remove push technology from LSL just to deal with security scripts. But it wouldnt be the first time I was wrong. Also there is no need to start a thread on what I mentioned because its already been suggested time and time again to LL. However the squeeky wheel might get the greasing around here, dunno. Good luck.

We do need such things in SL - at least *today*. The current land tools are insufficient to protect a buisness against a grief attack. If we get better land tools someday - then I'd agree that we don't need these functions any longer (at least for security purposes).

For land that is not deeded to group, there currently is no way to delegate land permissions to others. Because I can't be on 24/7, I need to give my volunteers the ability to eject folks that are causing problems. *Today* the only way to do that, is through the use of a script.

I think that these script functions are like a lot of script functions - they can be used, and they can be misused. The misuse of them is the problem - not the functions themselves. Removing them without a viable replacement toolset first would introduce a whole host of new issues, IMHO.

Proposition 244 is a proposal for better Land Tools. Check it out!

Don give up before life ends...

Use the time to answer me - instead to make own threads.. the more we talk about this the more will be aware of the sickness in this... and some day.. wow... we all can fly around.. in a free SL....

****


I maybe are not aware of something that exists in SL - forgive me iff so as new here - But IF you explain this I maybe wil be aware??? lets take that chance pls:

...”to protect a buisness against a grief attack.”

Attack???.. what have happened or what are you afraid of shall happen??? pls pls.

Sure, Pet

One of the most common forms of attack-greifing is by use of something called C4. Its basically a script that makes a very large orange explosion, and knocks everyone into neighboring sims.

At a busy event - its one real easy way to kill the event, and clear the room. Most folks don't come back after that.

The folks that do this, tend to do it *repeatedly* - until they are stopped by either a Liason, or a Security Script.

Check this thread for a live example of a C4 griefing:
/108/5e/44632/1.html

Another example (This happened to me a couple months ago):

Newbie comes in with a Bananna phone. If you're not familiar with a bananna phone, its an object that plays an annoying sound, over and over again.

The newbie rezzes the bananna phone - the volunteer host on duty asks the newbie to please put it away. The newbie laughs at the host - and proceeds to rez literally hundreds of bananna phones - until the parcel is full. The host is powerless to do anything about it until a Liason arrives - which takes 15 minutes. By that time, everyone has left the event disgusted.


There's more examples - such as a guest that was being stalked by a jilted lover that wouldn't stay away - or folks that come in with the sole purpose of harassing newbies.

It sucks people behave this way - even though the majority of folks are good people, there always seem to be a small minority that take pleasure in ruining the fun for everyone.

Unfortunately, I think in almost all cases of the push security scripts that people are complaining about, griefing of events is not the reason they are employed. How would people get to the events if the security script pushed them away?

No..it really is just a case of folks being dickheads for the most part. I've yet to hear if LL will, or are banning reported "abusive" uses of such scripts.

Most of these griefers rely upon the cost of neg rating. Not everyone goes to GOM to buy Linden dollars, and if they do, then they don't want to throw it away neg rating people all day. Many people just try to get to point B again, but with a different route.

But I can certainly see why a business owner would want to give permissions to employees or volunteers. Instead of outlawing code, perhaps we should set guidlines for how a security system should work, and establish which settings constitute griefing? If these things left the flyers alone, then more people would be okay with their use.

In any case, I agree with Prokofy on one thing: these scripts are basically weapons. Shoot them off in your own house, and it's no harm/no foul. Pick off a passing helicopter, however, and we have a problem.


Gydeon.

I sit down and start knitting instead of looking around in SL)

Serious. It must be same people (as in real) that do this for fun again and again - lets stop them with the help of negative rating/Linden lab..

well i use a home made "anti design leeching device" at my workshop but its at 300 meter high and you cannot fly that high without a tool anyway, wrap my worshop of an unpenetrable wall 60 meter thick.
For the peoples i really cannot stand (2 for the moment) i use another homebrew system that deny em the access to my land and its air space (any height)


so basically i dont think i am degrading the gameplay to anybody with this...

hey! i should sell these two devices!

I have a security device but it is set to eject you from my land only when on. Many times I have been hanging with friends and had 4-8 people drop in and start harrassing every one. so there name goes in my device and they are tp off world if they try to come back. I try to do my builds as high up in the skay as I can to avoid people from stealing my ideas.

If everyone played by the rules we would not need these devices. But sorry to say some people just want to come in and rez crap all over a persons land(giant dancing dildos that follow you). Some people want to come in and start shooting everyone. Some people want to come in and steal Ideas. Some people want to come in and be assholes during an event. I've read in the forums where someone has completely relandscaped someone elses property.

Get them to stop and I will gladly stop using any devices not supplied by the Lindens. Land tools do not work as the can stand outside it and use scripts to harrass. But hey you send them to god knows where and they don't seem to want come back to continue their crap.

reporting them oooooooh that really makes them stop. Yea right.

We need a vigilanty group some one start it I'll sign up.

So... if your place is on the way to where I'm going, I'll be knocked out of my helicopter, or just halted? Halted is annoying but not harmful. Being knocked out of my copter not only griefs me, but could leave 30 prims on your neighbor's land. And what if I'm just flying from a telehub? What happens to me then? I don't think anybody minds people protecting their land from the various jerks out there. We just don't want to be slammed because we happen to be nearby.

When a security script hits me, it's no different to me than some guy on the ground with a push gun. Protect your permissions all you like, but please let the the fly-by people get to their point B. We're already stressed from the sim crossings as it is.


Gydeon.

I probably don't know what I am taking about as usual but why can't people use the existing tools? When a griefer attcks my land I just ban them and that seems to end it. Don't club owners like to ban griefers or something?

Should I just buy a tazer and hit every person on the street as I go to work, because one of them might be a mugger? Push-ban scripts make just as much sense, they hit anyone no matter whether they're innocent bystanders or creeps. If you're knocking random explorers six-hundred meters just because they wandered next to your build, you're being abusive and negligent to the population at large.

You can go ahead and take that risk if you like, just don't be surprised if you do get a negative rating or a grief report. People have a basic right to privacy, but the right to not be massively bumped or even crashed by other users is a lot more important.

It's funny that I've been here since 2003 and really never been griefed, and all the people who've barged into my house have been OK folks, in some cases becoming good friends to this day. The first month in SL can be tough, but as soon as you learn the tricks it's really all very manageable. I don't understand how people can be so paranoid about users just getting near them. 100% of the griefing I've ran into the last six months? Home defense systems, just while flying to other destinations.

ys if you fly in reach of my skypad you will be tped home, but only if you trty to aproach it, for the clutters, i have a good amount of prims free so itsnot a problem and i will gladly return your vehicle to you if i find it

EDIT

i might make some improvement, like pushing you higher this way you dont come in my skypad's reach, hows that?

You TP me home for flying by, and I'll file an AR. You unsit and eject me for flying by and I'll file an AR. You use llPushObject on me or my aircraft and I'll file an AR.
Give me 10 seconds or so (longer if the area you're protecting is large) to get by. Make sure I've got a warning so I know. If I'm still mucking about where I'm not wanted after 10 seconds, then eject me from the property. I can't file an AR in good conscience in that case.
And save the TPs for greifers. llPushObject isn't a security tool. Just don't even think it.

I don't need you to return my vehicle. I need you to leave my vehicle alone. This is one of the reasons that vehicles have to be made as copy/no transfer. Your skypad may not have even rezzed by the time you've crashed someone's client. If you don't want litter, that's understandable. Just set your land to no-rez or to return objects after five minutes, and you won't have any problems.

The only justification for a security script is to give specific land permission abilities to friends or employees while you're logged off, because leaving the permissions open overnight attracts terraform griefers. You may want to extend banning permissions to an employee to kick some jerk out during an event, but that's a specific action, not an always-on grief attack that kills airplanes.

Part of the SL experience is looking at all the nice builds, but now we're all flying through an invisible minefield whether we're looking or not. Anyone who knocks me out of my vehicle for any reason at all is asking for an Abuse Report.


Gydeon.