Request for immediate Linden Lab action/oversight

This post is here in General because the circumstances and ramifications relate to all of SL, not solely to the group or individuals dierctly involved. I am not part of the group in question or do I have anything personal against any of the individuals involved despite clashing with a few of them here in the forums. However, I have read and watched the "progress" and activities of the group and its leader((s)/ship) as posted in the forums. As such, their actions reflect on SL, on LL, and on me as a resident and paying customer.

In the following thread, /103/f7/27882/1.html was this post:

IF Ace's comment is correct and an act of public self-abasement is required to join her group, the Neualtenberg Projekt, then the supposed basis for this project is the antithesis of SL's stated behavior and conduct/TOS policies for residents.

If the statement is correct then Ulrika is acting as an autocratic-dictatorial de facto government which does not stand for what was described in the group/project proposal approved with some fanfare by LL.

Prior restraint is being exercised via exclusion from the group, policy decisions related to the entire group are being made by a small, exclusive group-within-the-group apparetnly without being referred to the group membership at large (despite the group being touted and promoted as a democracy in action) and the very nature of the entire group is being restricted by that very limited cadre.

IF Ace's statement is true , then I call on Linden Labs to immediately withdraw all support from the group and project.

Not doing so is tantamount to condoning and supporting prejudicial and biased behavior by this group/group leadership on my/most-of-SL's-residents land tier fees even though I am/we are not a part of the group.

Additionally, I request immeditate public clarification and oversight of and by this group and its de facto leadership and a public explanation of Linden Lab's position with regard to this situation. To whit:
1. Is it LL's position that a public forum apology/self-debasement by any resident, for any reason, under any circumstances is an acceptable requirement for group membership?
2. Is it LL's position that LL-officially supported groups may discriminate arbitrarily in their membership requirements - without restrictions? If there are limits to those restrictions, what are they - and has this group exceeded those limits?
3. As LL has publicly sanctioned and supported this group already, does that mean all actions by the group are condoned by LL? If not, what are the llimits of that support?
4. If LL does not support the groups' actions and activitues, or the actions and activities of the group leader(s), then what is or is not being done to separate LL from the questionable actions?
5. If LL has not and will not consider negatively sanctioning the group/group's leader(s) for discrimination, what is LL's justification for doing so "on my dime"? Why shouldn't I consider that LL will support such discriminatory action by another group against me - supported by my own tier fees to LL?

That's for starters. I await an answer. I may have more questions depending on the response.

i won't belong to a group if the officers require me to debase myself to join. i really can't imagine wanting to join a group if i already have that kind of relationship with some of the members.

i don't think you'll find the lindens interferring with group dynamics beyond their own rules that they, and their alts, are not allowed to serve as officers in player based groups.

Indeed.

Indeed. Because every project in SL that has had even a small amount of Linden support was open to all members of SL regardless of their motives. And of course the project leaders had no say so in who was on their team or how the project would evolve.

/sarcasm off

Korg. This issue is being delt with internally within the group. We are in a phase now of transfering leadership from project leaders to the government that we are working to define. It takes some fine tuning, but we are all working together. Mistakes may be made along the way (in the eyes of some), and we will learn from them. Everyone currently involved in this project *is* working together. We are finding compromise, and we are moving along successfully.

Seeing as you are bent on having this project fail. You offer no support and only comtempt for what we have done. You have never deemed to speak directly with a variety of members involved in the project. And your distaste for Ulrika is quite evident. And you continue to insult the members of the project by basically stating we are all just drones following mindlessly. Well, I personally think you just don't have a clue about what all is involved with this project, and frankly you just make yourself look bad when you start crying about the sky falling.

OMG!! He's gone of the deep end!! Is there a wacko doc in tha house??

I didn't read your post Korg...sorry...but I did like the pretty colors you added.

You completely misspeak here. I don't think the project will or can succeed as proposed. That does not mean I want it to fail.... quite a bit of difference here.

My like or dislike of any individual involved has NOTHING to do with my post... read it again.

I stated that my experience with the group and its membership is limited to following it via the forums - and that is the basis for the request for oversight and action by LL - something I am certainly entitled to as a paying customer. I am actually interested in following the progress of the project - or I wouldn't have been reading the group's forum - I just don't want to participate in it in world. I have other feelings about the project also... but my concern here is limited to what I posted - and without malice, believe it or not.

I won't address the personal attack you have made against me as I don't want to distract from the seriousness of the issue I raised in the thread starter post.

How would this possibly concern you unless you're personally seeking membership in their group, Korg? It seems to me you have a personal agenda here, most likely caused by your own dislike for certain members of the group. If Ace has a problem with it I'm sure he's fully capable of discussing it with the Lindens without needing you to stir up a lynch mob on the forums. You've mentioned many times in off topic posts on matters political that you're extremely apathetic about anything that doesn't directly affect you personally. This would certainly fall under that category, so why are you so up in arms unless it's because you want to cause harm to a group you dissaprove of?

Korg isn't even aware that the person in question has already been made a member without the aforementioned "abasement".

His history of dislike for me is quite well documented in the forums--and actions of his IW, such as standing on the borders of my privately owned land for over an hour in a bizarre attempt at intimidation has not gone unnoticed by me.

Of course we have his say-so that he isn't pursuing a personal vendetta born of philosophical disagreements.

Holy fug...

If the Costume Party has a curmudgeon as wily as Korg agreeing with our principles, then perhaps we're onto something here.

- Ace

WTG, Korg!!!

But next time, you should be wearing a silly hat, and wearing a "Bozo for Mayor" t-shirt.

- Ace

The Neualtenburg Projekt - "...create an experimental community of artistic, ambitious, talented individuals who want to explore the limits of architecture, culture, and politics in Second Life" - Website Group Forums


To walk this talk, the limits of politics will by definition have to include both revolution and anarchy - AND you've used the word "ambitious".


Have at it!

You rock bro!

It concerns me because:
1. I am a paying customer and my fees are being used for this project.
2. It appears to raise questions of TOS violations.
3. The statement/"charge" was made/reported in a public forum.
4. The project has been mentioned outside of SL/LL. As such, the actions of a few reflect on us all.

So, it does affect me directly in that real world others know I play SL and have mentioned such things as this project (if not specifically, then tangentially) based on real world media references. Should this be a sanctioned practice by LL, I may have to reconsider my status as a paying customer because of what I believe it says about those who willingly pay money to be here - like myself.

I am not stirring up a lynch mob. I have made a request for a public statement by LL. I have made a request for more oversight of this group in particular - as it is the only one of its kind and presents unique problems and challenges for the LL/the community as a whole.

I repeat, I have nothing against the group, per se. I have nothing against any of the individuals in the group, per se. I think it's ill-conceived and pointless and that some of the people in the group post stupid things, certainly. I don't retract anything I have said along those lines. However, I am interested in seeing if it can be made to work... but not at the expense of others i nSL, and certainly not if it even tangetially affects/reflects on my real world persona.

Ace's actions are his own. I leave them to him. Mine are mine. I stand by them.

Actually, I have a t-shirt and silly hat for you too.

It's a picture of a mouse flipping "the finger" at a hawk descending upon it from above. The caption is "The last great act of defiance!"

That is what I think is the predictable end for those who are all far more touchy-feely than I am - and you fit well into that category... but I generally like you in spite of that.

Edited to add: I don't hnk I have ever met Ace in world.. and only met Merwan in passing... like - hello-type in passing.

and yet, almost magically it would seem, that particular conflict (of which you have zero details or knowledge) has been resolved with all participating parties reaching an agreement.

I would strongly suggest, Korg, that your actions would be better placed on areas within SL where there is actually a problem.

Kendra... I don't remember ever even seeing you in world much less trying to intimidate you.. and I certainly have far more to do in world than to stand on the plot border of your "little world".

You really need to get a life and come back to reality lady.

At tthe very least, you should admit this was a bald-faced lie.

Perhaps I'm wrong --perhaps you own land which borders on mine in Kaili?
Ya see the danger of assuming facts based on circumstantial evidence?

I won't admit to a lie. I will admit to a misperception if you infact own land bordering on my own.

As far as getting a life? I'm not pursuing sanctions from the Lindens towards a group I have nothing to do with based on misperceptions.

Don't presume to speak to me of reality, Sir.

LL is not stupid. Any group that seeks LL support, in terms of server space for a project, must submit a proposal for review. All parties involved agree to certain terms and I am sure a breach of terms will be handled at that time. I am sure that LL is keenly aware of any outside attention that SL receives via the media.

The success of the group effort will ultimately be determined by the residents of SL. Some plans may not fall into the mold that certain people may want to see, but it is the Lindens decision to approve the proposal. If this group is denied its due course, how will that effect your (or anyone else's) proposal for similar support?

Its an experiment. The microscopes are poised.

I bet me and that mouse could get along.

But then, I could probably also get along with a curmedgeon, such as yourself.

- Ace

Please don't insinuate that you are referring to the Costume Party and its relationship with Neualtenberg when you say that.

We ain't resolved squat yet, deary...

- Ace

Nope. Again.. you attribute actions and motices to me that have no basis in fact.

Never owned land anywhere near there. Still don't.

YOU owe the community a public statement of fact relating to the above - that you did misstate something about me with malice intended and no evidence to support it.

Our goal in this project is to preserve the snow sims while creating a compelling destination for all members of SL. At the moment we are deeply engaged in the project management stage, as we build up the infrastructure. There are currently two project managers, Kendra and I, and as group officers we hand select people who we feel will make a positive contribution to the project. Until the project transitions to self rule, as project leads, we have sole discretion on who we let in and who to kick out of the group. This is exactly like every other themed build in SL. Until the project transitions to self rule, the argument for free admittance is moot.

However, that does not mean that you are not welcome in the city, while we are finishing construction. Please feel free to stop by and see the current city layout, attend our events, and buy some of our wares. We also border an enormous open space which is a blast to ski or drive across. We are also located next to a Linden ski area. Have some fun! There'll be plenty of time to spit bile in the forums later.

Futher, if you are interested in being included in the dynamic group that is currently driving this complex project forward, please contact me or Kendra for an interview. We would love to add more talented motivated artisans to our ranks.

~Ulrika~

This from the same person who called Kendra Bancroft a waste of human sperm? * Yawn *

BTW, how exactly does this affect you as a paying customer? Linden Lab provided nothing except for land that was previously unavailable for use. The members who donated allocation are bearing the costs of the land.

I owe you nothing --and if you don't own land there --what were you doing there?