Fed Up - Hawthorne.

No Rathe, that is simply incorrect. Billie has not bought strips or parcels of land with the specific intention of erecting a wall, as taessa did. Everything she has built has been on land she's owned for months.

I read this thread and am still missing something - maybe I didnt read close enough.

Can someone explain:
- why people have these banishers up in the first place?
- why Billie is building walls around sims (I got why Viola did it) ?

The *ONLY* difference is that Billie is buying large chunks of land insted of strips for this exact purpose. So what you're implying with that statement is that the rich are allowed to build banishers and walls but those who can't buy large chunks of land cannot? Billie has not had those pieces of land on the west side of Hawthorne for months. That is a lie (or at least an incorrect fact on your behalf). I had friends that owned much of that land in that area and Billie chased everyone away with her drama-rama and she continued to buy it all out as everyone left for control and the explicit purpose of building her walls and banishers, what else is she doing with that huge body of water?

Billie Sunchaser maintains a "blacklist" much like the communist blacklists in the US during the 1950's. If you ever do *anything* to displease her you will be added to that list. I'm not talking about abusing her, vandalising her property, or streaking through her property naked. I'm talking about anything. If you say something she doesn't like, you're added. If you build where she doesn't want you to, you're added. If you dress weird you're added. Fire a rocket in a near by sim, you're added. Many people are on this list. She buys up large chunks of land (notice she is the largest land owner in SL) for the explicit purpose of maintaining and enforcing her blacklist and thus enforcing her regime.

If you make it onto her blacklist, you become the target of land ejectors, orbitors, terrets, pushers, teleporters, etc. on all of the land she owns throughout SL. You can never be removed from this list, or ever redeem yourself. Once you're added, that's it, she mutes you and you're forbidden to navigate even remotely close to any land she owns and all neighbouring land she doesn't own.

Why the need for this blacklist I do not know. The ejectors were designed to protect people from abusers, and instill some sort of privacy where necessary, not to blacklist people like she has, and specifically not for the sake of prohibiting navigation which she explicitly does.

If you do not believe me, try having a normal, mature, adult debate with her, on any topic, just general politics, and as soon as she starts to disagree with you, be prepared to be blacklisted, muted, and under assault from her "monkeys".

My apologies if I was incorrect in terms of timescale. Whether she has owned the land for weeks or months is, however, immaterial.

Are you suggesting, Rathe, that Billie's crime is that she is rich? She has worked very hard to make a lot of clothing in the world that a lot of people like and are prepared to pay for. That takes a lot of skill and hard work.

She has, like many people in real life, invested her profits in land. That is her choice. Your contention that her only motivation for doing so would be to erect a wall next to someone else who may come along to annoy her at some point in the future is frankly, not very credible.

I'm also a little unclear about whether you are objecting to someone building a large unsightly board object on land which immediately abutts your own. Could you clarify this, please?

We, as well, have profited from our businesses and continue to do so. Taessa Weaver, who built the wall has as well. Do you honestly consider 104x4 to not be a huge investment in land? Now consider that and multiply it by the amount it takes to cover the borders of a Sim. That's by no means a small amount of land.

And perhaps Billie does not buy small strips of land, but she has a little henchmen she has do her dirty work in the form of Nate007 Groshomme, who, if you would fly around Hawthorne and look, does exactly that. 4x4 here, 4x8 there, all over. Why? So he can put his banishers/turrets up.

The "amount" of land or "how long" it's been owned is not a valid point in this. A wall is a wall is a wall. Billie's continue to stand, her banishers continue to violate CS. The rest are torn down, and notices of discipline sent. There is no part of this which is not a double standard.

Can we please desist from ad hominem attacks? Personal abuse won't get us anywhere in this discussion. Can we please dicuss the issues?

As I understand it, and as I've pointed out before, "how long" the land has been owned is completely the point at issue in the double standards you are referring to.

I refer you to my previous posts.

Could you go off a bigger tangent? Stop trying to avoid the obvious points to confuse readers in Billie's defense. Why can't she speak for herself btw?

I never suggested her crime was in being rich. All the power to her. I know she owns a line of clothing, I know that's how she made her money. Never suggested otherwise. In fact, I was a frequent shopper of her stores (up until being blacklisted.)

My point was that your statement is suggesting that the rich should be allowed to buy large pieces of land and erect walls and banishers and disguise it as property where if someone with less money buys a strip of land and builds the same objects on it, it is suddenly a crime. If that is the case, than I consider myself in a very lucky position.

Am I objecting to someone rezing a wall? Nope. I'm sorry you're unclear about that, but it's pretty obvious what my argument is. I shall attempt to simplify it for the ease of your logical processing.

My arguement isn't the wall, isn't building the wall, it's the double standard. That Billie is allowed to do so at will, but other people, for example Taessa, get their walls deleted, warned, and possibly sent to the hole for a few days. Billie does the same things and does not get punished. That is a double standard.

The fact that you sit here pointing out Taessa's violation of the TOS as explained by Dan, but you defend Billie's violation of the TOS while Billie goes unpunished. That is a double standard.

Since you are having a difficult time comprehending things, I will include for your convenience the definition of double standard.

double standard
n : an ethical or moral code that applies more strictly to one group than to another

Thank you for that patronising and insulting post, Rathe. I think everyone who is reading this thread can make up their own minds as to the quality of the debate from either side on this issue.

Perhaps you ought to wave your dictionary at the Lindens, as they seem to share my interpretaion of what constitutes a violation of the ToS, not yours.

I look forward to your reply, although it will have to wait until tomorrow, as I'm off for dinner.

Incidentally, you'll have to ask Billie about her own responses, I've neither seen nor talked to her since before the wall was erected yesterday.

So, because we've been harassed for a long time, it's ok, but harassing people for a short amount of time isn't?

I like this logic a lot.

Having read this thread in it's entirety I found myself laughing out loud. si Money, Rathe Underthorne and other have COMPLETELY forgot to mention their own repeated transgressions against Billie and her neighbors, many instances, I, myself, have witnessed while in the Hawthorne sim.

Billie has never put ANYONE on her banishers for no reason, or just to impede on their enjoyment, in fact it wasn't awhile back she even had the necessity for one. Unfortunately, she had people disregarding her space, building inflammatory objects on her land, REPEATEDLY, just to harass her. To make matters worse, said individuals would come onto her property and verbally harrass her and whoever else was about (Including me.) Granted, in SL you will always have the less immature fare who desire only to cause contention amongst other residents, both of which the starter of this thread and some of it's participants are guilty of, but will not admit to because they want the portrait of events painted in a manner that villifies Billie and those who have lept to her defense.

The bottom line is, if you behaved appropriately instead of targetting certain other players and continually harrassing them, expect consequences, expect to be banished... and don't complain about it when it happens!

Can you please provide details of any point in time where I have ever placed anything in Hawthorne just to harass her, or anyone else there? Also, please provide information on any time I have ever verbally harassed anyone in game, ever.

What are these transgressions you point out? You have mentioned them, and Jackson has mentioned them, noone has mentioned any details as to what these are, or what they are perceived to be.

I have never verbally harassed anyone at any point in time. Though I have been verbally harassed by most of the residents of Hawthorne (Viola Bach being an exception). And I do have several witnesses, not to mention the logs above, which can back this up.

If you are referring to our billboards as intent of "harassing Billie" I suggest you get around more in SL. We have them everywhere. There is no intent to harass any land owners anywhere, it's purely an advertising business. We've spent countless hours to try to AVOID them impeding on other people. Again, I can provide references to back up these statements.

You mean pretty much how your posts come out sounding?



This statement makes no sense at all, what interpretaion? I haven't been arguing the terms of the ToS at all, I have been stating that Billie VIOLATES them and gets away with it. Why? Why don't you post exactly what it is you think is a violation of the ToS that you and Lindens share, show some facts, not just your ego.



For the record, I never erected ANY wall in Hawthorne. I only joined this debate because I too am very familar with the favoritism that Billie Sunchaser receives and am equally as well fed up with it. It's time for it to stop. It's time that she gets her just dessert for continuing to violate the ToS. She should be sent to the hole. Her walls, banishers, whatever it is that everyone else gets punished for should be removed just as equally.

If you're going to so rightously defend her actions within the boundries of the ToS, then please, for everyone here, specifically explain to us how the following is NOT a violation of the ToS.

For two months at least she banned me from Hawthorne. I could not enter it without being ejected, teleported home, or shot 30,000 meters into the air. I owned land in Hawthorne. Land that I was not even able to even DIRECTLY teleport to without being subjected to her banishers. MY LAND, NOT HERS. Now I'm subjected to rez banishers, anytime I rez something I get kicked off MY LAND and ejected. That makes building/editing anything practically impossible. I was subjected to taxes of this land for 2 months UNABLE to access it. I couldn't even release it if I wanted to.

PLEASE TELL US HOW THAT IS *NOT* A VIOLATION OF THE TOS. Especially if you have it from the mouth of a Linden. I think everyone would really like to see that.

How is that FAIR? I demand that she be punished for this if everyone gets punished for the same actions. I'd also like to request that she refund me in FULL the amount I paid on the taxes for the 2 months she made my land UNUSABLE.

This is not directed at anyone specifically. The same base issues came up recently in Rose. I just want to say this:

Yes, its possible to do things that are socially unacceptable in a 'legal' way that won't get you in trouble. That doesn't mean you should do it. Such actions are detrimental to this game as a whole, and amount to nothing but trouble.

Despite pretty words and noble stances, ToS or not, some things you just know deep down shouldn't be done. Its supposed to be fun, people. For everyone.

Curious Madox, can you really ban someone from their own land in a legal way at all? If so, please let me know how, and instead of this argument I will simply 'return the favor'.

AFAIK it is not legal to use sensors to call llPushObject() to avoid nobuild/no outside script flags on land so that you can push people off land they own. And by that, I do mean by any twist of "legal" or "acceptable".

For some reason, they simply look the other way on this. I do not understand why, and I would like to know. Hence the start of this thread.

Thanks Madox, I think you solved the issue for them.
These Hawthorne Locals, now have no issue's what-so-ever.
Haha. I'm just playin'. Tryin to add a little bit of Levity to this thread.
Crow

And then there was log! And they saw that log was good, and this ended all war into the worlds and a time of peace and posterity followed!

If you are going to build a wall around something you don't like, then how about using Darwin's invisbilty wall?
It makes all obects and avs disappear.

Ok by the looks of this thread it seems both of these individuals have racked up probably around a dozen abuse reports.

Why are they not banned yet?

I had buddies banned after 1 or 2 back in beta yet these two who are doing far worse still have not been dealt with?

Ok I log in tonight and what happens? I get IM by not 1 person, but 5 people complaining about hawthorne, and every one of just THOSE people have filed complaints on Billie Sunchaser and Nate 007. Now since I have no idea what goes on over there, and just before I logged into these forums I got 3 more people telling me they reported the same 2 people, it is pretty clear in my own view that they are the violators. You just don't get a buncha people telling you they sent complaints about the same 2 people for giggles. It reminds me of Roswell, thousands of people witnessed that but the govt. still denied it. All I see here is a bucnha liars who don't want to admit they are wrong in violating the Terms set fourth. That's all I will say about it

I used to be a resident in Hawthorne once upon a time, and i have witnessed the wrath of Billie on many occasions.. once upon time she used to be my friend and i would even stand up with her but no longer.. i lived in Hawthorne when all the stuff started with the Billboards.. and i now watch from Federal as Billie turns Hawthorne into a fortress that noone can enter unless she finds you acceptable. Rathe and Si never harrased Billie, she just didn't like the billboard being there which i'm sure alot of ppl don't like the billboards but then most ppl act like mature adults and try to solve problems , i watch the torrest knock Rathe out of the Sim time and time again and from what i understood its against the TOS to hamper any movement freely through any Sim weither you own land there or not, so i find it disturbing that the Lindens are turning their backs in this situations, reguardless of anything done on either side.. i see ppl punished everyday for abuse reports so what i'm taking from this that if your in Linden Favor.. you can literally commit murder or do anything to anyone no matter how many CS its volates you won't get punished. Is this true Lindens? because i would like an answer to this question, because i only see certain ppl being punished while others get nuthing done to them.

if the lindens dont act we will have to take the situation on by force,it seems the lindens only step in once they have a major situation on their hands.

billie and nate should have been banned days ago.

Ok I wasnt going to post but this is too damn funny so I must post once and then I'm moving on.

Now I have a fortress and a blacklist! Woot! Go me! I must find these 2
items since they really must be cool!

Aww, someone took a stand against you guys and you didnt like it.
Like I'm the first to cover your billboards? umm no. There were others before me, even when it was in Hawthorn before I did see that the other residents decorated the boards yesterday though. Nice touch guys!
People just dont like them as you can see in other threads but since you 2 find it hard to keep your facts straight I'm sure you'll see it a totally different way.

As for your land Rathe, which you claim you havent been able to get to for 2 months, I've seen you there with a box on your chest. Not sure what that was all about but it's a lovely accessory. However, you shouldnt lie because it suits your needs at the moment. And I'm sure you can get to all those little pieces of land you ran around buying up just to put banishers on the other night too


Favoritism? Me thinks not. Anyone who knows me knows that I have filed numerous complaints and nothing gets done so join the club. Or could it be that I'm within TOS? hmm something to think about.

The moral of the story?
***Fight fire with fire and they wont like it.***

This is my first and last post to this thread so you can continue your normally scheduled rants now

*skipping off to my first life because I have one*

You have no right to cover the billboards just cause you dont like em gives you no right to cover them.