Wanted: Your opinion
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Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
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09-03-2005 22:04
I went to Ginko Island tonight (wearing a cute ump outfit made by Jade Jensen) to get some money, and shortly after I landed, a nude avatar with a large "package" attached came up to me and was grinding up against me. There were about seven male avatars sitting and standing around in this area. I walked off a short distance, and one of them called me a "referee slut." I gave him a negative rating and left. He then IMed me, saying that he wanted an apology. I told him that I would gladly give him one if he would apologize for calling me a slut. This is the conversation that followed: X: actually i don't need an apology, but i do need less of a negative rating X: a question first X: why do you go around sporting a body... fake, btw, and expect not to have comments like that? Katt Kongo: I look how I want to look, and I expect ppl to behave better than to grind up against me and call me a referee slut X: actually, i didnt grind against you Katt Kongo: I didn't say you did X: i was standing far away and all i did was go "referee slut?" Katt Kongo: and that's appropriate to say that about a complete stranger? X: its just as appropriate as rating someone negatively for getting what you want Katt Kongo: excuse me? I asked to be called a SLUT? X: are you telling me you intented to be ladylike in that outfit? Katt Kongo: it's cute.. who plays a game on a Saturday night to be ladylike? Katt Kongo: but I tell you what Katt Kongo: I will write a column about this incident for my newspaper and take a poll to see if other ppl think it was appropriate to say that X: knowing you i doubt many intelligent classy people read that newspaper of yours X: dont waste your breath, however useless and cheap it may be Katt Kongo: ty for clarifying that you are an ass X: i'm the ass? be honest, did you honestly think that someone would go "oh i love your outfit it is beautiful" rather than say/think lewd comments? X: if you did, you're not bright enough to know what an ass is X: probably can't even tell it from your elbow When I first started playing the game, I did dress to attract attention. But now I wear what I like for my pleasure. So, I guess I have a lot of questions about this situation. Should I only wear slacks and a long-sleeved shirt when I go out in public? Or perhaps I should start wearing a veil in case someone decides my eyes are slutty looking. Do male avatars usually lurk at Ginko Island for female avatars to grind up against? Does the Ginko group approve of such behavior (one such avatar there was a Ginko employee)? I'm not a prude, and I'm not really easily offended. But the fact that I was at a banking facility, minding my own business, when two male avatars decided to sexually harass me has me a bit bewildered. What do you think?
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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09-03-2005 22:13
No one has the right to treat anyone like that regardless of how they are dressed, especially in SL.
I am sorry you had to endure that. I hope you can get pass this.
/me hugs Katt
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
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09-03-2005 22:22
Many men like to treat all women in SL like sluts and in the forums as someone to be tolerated but not taken seriously. Don't take it personally as it is their problem and not yours.
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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09-03-2005 22:28
From: April Firefly No one has the right to treat anyone like that regardless of how they are dressed, especially in SL. My message, my consistent message R.E.S.P.E.C.T. I hope you reported this incident. I think you look adorable and Jade makes the best outfits! Think I will go buy that tonight! Be yourself honey *hugs*
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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09-03-2005 22:31
What a jerk. Luckily, from what I've seen, creeps like that are in the minority here. I do the same as you, I dress sexy sometimes because I enjoy it. It doesn't give anybody the right to treat you like that. If women in SL --or RL, for that matter-- are 'asking for it' when they dress sexy, then we might as well start wearing long robes and veils.... god forbid anybody should see our bodies! Those guys were just assholes-- if it happens again I'd abuse report them.
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Aces Spade
Raise you One♠
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,774
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09-03-2005 22:34
Remember Lorena Bobbitt  it's to bad we can't do the same in SL
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From: someone Posted by ZsuZsanna Raven So where is the "i don't give a shit'' option?
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Jim Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2004
Posts: 474
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09-03-2005 22:36
There is no excuse, nor reason, for the conduct you described. I strongly encourage you to abuse report such behavior in the future. (Prolly not enough record at this point to AR him now.) Based on the release notes, neg rating is going away ... (his protest on that point is baseless, BTW) ... so Abuse Reporting is the surest way to have such behavior handled by the Lindens. From everything I've heard, such behavior is part of a pattern ... and has no place here. Sorry you encountered something like that. Next time I wouldn't even engage in a conversation ... safest course. Just abuse report them and get away. *hugs* Jim 
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Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
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09-03-2005 22:40
After that conversation, I did report him. 
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Beryl Greenacre
Big Scaredy-Baby
Join date: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,312
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09-03-2005 22:42
From: Katt Kongo X: why do you go around sporting a body... fake, btw, and expect not to have comments like that? This pathetic "justification" is as old as the hills in real life, and it doesn't work in virtual reality, either. Abuse-reporting for this type of behavior is in order, this is harassment.
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Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,011
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09-03-2005 22:45
Hmm. I won't comment on the behavior which you aledge here, because that would be contrary to my point. I would ask though, what is this doing on the forums? If the behavior which you aledge did in fact occur, why not just abuse report it and move on with life?  It's not that I believe you, or that I don't believe you, or that I have any opinion to offer on your aledged chat log. I just don't understand why you're posting chat logs on a public forum. 
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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09-03-2005 22:51
From: Shaun Altman I just don't understand why you're posting chat logs on a public forum.  Because she's trying to find out whether other people think the jerk in question was right or wrong to say what he did.... whether other people here believe the same as he did, or not. When people abuse you because of how you dress or how you look, it raises a lot of questions in your mind... men aren't used to this sort of behavior, women are. It helps to talk about it and get support from other women.
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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09-03-2005 23:26
i think its a valid point to be brought up because every residen deserves respect, and should be able to express themselves in any way they want provided they don't interfere with someone elses enjoyment of the game
sadly, this is a sympton of the hypersexual pop culture we have nurtured here in the US through various media. Both the original neked offender and the shouter that was negged are just acting up for any number of unspecified although probably attention related reasons and succeptibility to pop cultures influence.
I totally expect more of this behavior as the game is widely adopted by a more representative user base.
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Ardith Mifflin
Mecha Fiend
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,416
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09-03-2005 23:41
From: Mulch Ennui sadly, this is a sympton of the hypersexual pop culture we have nurtured here in the US through various media. Both the original neked offender and the shouter that was negged are just acting up for any number of unspecified although probably attention related reasons and succeptibility to pop cultures influence. Careful. You're starting to sound like a social theorist, and that ain't a complement. I sometimes wish that our engineering departments could invade and annex the sociology building, so that we might impart a lil bit of reality to our wayward academic brethren.
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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09-03-2005 23:54
From: Ardith Mifflin Careful. You're starting to sound like a social theorist, and that ain't a complement. I sometimes wish that our engineering departments could invade and annex the sociology building, so that we might impart a lil bit of reality to our wayward academic brethren. invade those who disagree hmmm will have to try to decipher that type of response sounds alot like "with us or against us" it's a good thing us fools have BIG BROTHERS like you to invade and "spread freedom"
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-04-2005 00:11
From: Katt Kongo After that conversation, I did report him.  Good for you! IM me in world with their names if you would be so kind - I personally don't wish to give custom or access to this kind of idiot... I'll add them to my banlist and to the 'do not serve' on any vendors I have in world. The good thing about handling a situation with a level head and clear thinking is that it makes it so much easier for the powers that be to look over the report.. I'm sure peoples first instinct would be to lash out - and to tell you the truth quite righteously! But too many times in the past I've seen such good intentions turn into a I said-they said that ends up with unsatisfactory results.. Good for you!
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Leif Ming
Concerned Citizen
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 31
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09-04-2005 00:37
Actually, I believe I was there for this. I saw a the line "referee slut", but I assumed it was a reference to some joke, as I wasn't really paying attention. The Ginko Employee you mentioned, who I won't name, was probably the one who was working on the Ginko Radio stream with me and wasn't paying full attention either. Ginko Island doesn't approve of this behavior, though, and had it caught his attention as the sexual harassment it was, I'm sure he would have taken action. Just because one of Ginko's patrons is a sexist jerk doesn't mean the island and it's visitors approve of this behavior.
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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09-04-2005 00:41
How odd that you're the one that was called a slut and not the naked leg humper. Sounds like your antagonist's problem is with females, not skimpy outfits and assumed sexual proclivity.
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Ardith Mifflin
Mecha Fiend
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,416
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09-04-2005 00:52
From: Mulch Ennui invade those who disagree
hmmm
will have to try to decipher that type of response
sounds alot like
"with us or against us"
it's a good thing us fools have BIG BROTHERS like you to invade and "spread freedom" Nope. It's more like a policy of denying funding to pretentious wankers who don't provide any benefit to the world. We have biologists, doctors, engineers, artists, writers, and various other people who actually provide a tangible contribution to the world. Then we have others who essentially exist only to fabricate nonsense, foment chaos, and transfer blame while consuming resources which could be better spent improving this world. If you had merely said that the person in question was being rude and demeaning, I would have been fine with the statement. Instead, you attempted to blame the boorishness of one person on a social phenomena. Instead of addressing one specific problem person, you instead displace his personal responsibility to society as a whole and reduce what was assault to "just acting out."
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-04-2005 01:33
These things wouldn't happen if we had a porny in the WA..
... Prop 550 for a brighter SL!
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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09-04-2005 06:32
Considering the wonderful personality of any person who would go about calling an unknown party a "slut", I think the issue here is with him.
That being said, I thought the outfit was interesting, perhaps enticing, but enough to induce rape and bigotry?
What weak, sad people they must have been. They have my pity, and the hope that they walk in front of a bus before they can breed and make some poor child share their lineage.
But you cannot let your sense of self be directed by such people. Rest assured that this question you pose should not have even needed to be asked. They real question is: Will he make small whining noises when the lindens banhammer both of their sorry asses for virtual molestation and slander.
And ah! Molestation. Strong word you say? All pixles you say? Just think on this: What you get to see here is the unhindered ID that is functioning without any worry of true repricussion. I FEAR people who act like this, because someone out there, in Real Life, is covering this kind of uglyness with a thinly spread veil of civality that allows them to function around others...
And some day, it will probably break. People get hurt when that happens.
Anyway, dress as you will. Run naked for all I care. It still does not offer others the option to treat others poorly. Of course, there are times when running naked could be highly inapproprate, but that's not the point of this discussion.
G'day, All!
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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09-04-2005 07:23
From: Ardith Mifflin Nope. It's more like a policy of denying funding to pretentious wankers who don't provide any benefit to the world. We have biologists, doctors, engineers, artists, writers, and various other people who actually provide a tangible contribution to the world. Then we have others who essentially exist only to fabricate nonsense, foment chaos, and transfer blame while consuming resources which could be better spent improving this world.... The only thing pretentious here is this statement, it reads like bigoted nonsense to me. On a really good day, you might call it merely a series of sweeping generalisations based on an extreme patriarchal world view. But that does not sound nice either. 
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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Operaters are standing by!
09-04-2005 07:25
From: Ardith Mifflin Nope. It's more like a policy of denying funding to pretentious wankers who don't provide any benefit to the world. We have biologists, doctors, engineers, artists, writers, and various other people who actually provide a tangible contribution to the world. Then we have others who essentially exist only to fabricate nonsense, foment chaos, and transfer blame while consuming resources which could be better spent improving this world.
Sounds like an opinion to me. Let me put it to you this way. Every single thought you process has been formed by an elaborate public relations or marketing concept. You don't know any other reality than that, because in your lifetime, and your parents lifetime, and very likely your grandparents lifetime, psychology has been used by the very rich to consistently influence you to spend your money, crafting a complete reality around you to support some very insane claims. I won't go into a dissertation to prove this, but you know how to use google, search "Edward L. Bernays" and learn how everything you think you know has been shaped by him. Propaganda. Brainwashing. This is your red pill and blue pill. Which pill do you want to eat? I warn you, if you eat the red pill you can never have what the blue pill offers you again. You might think I am kidding, but try me. It is also worth pointing out that that linguistics plays very heavily into this. Take Iraq for instance. When it is an Iraqi, it is "nationalism". When it is a U.S. citizen, it is called Patriotism. (also not I am not using "American"; that refers to 2 continents, not a country, linguistically. This is also a frame to note, as each term elicits a desired response) Orwell recognized the power of language in 1984. One very frightening example was his assertion that "if one doesn't have a word for freedom, one doesn't know it exists or that one doen't posess it" So which pill will you be eating? =) From: Ardith Mifflin If you had merely said that the person in question was being rude and demeaning, I would have been fine with the statement. Instead, you attempted to blame the boorishness of one person on a social phenomena. Instead of addressing one specific problem person, you instead displace his personal responsibility to society as a whole and reduce what was assault to "just acting out."
I don't diminish his role in his actions. I have a full range of very colorful insults I could hurl his way, but essentially I was consoling her that he was simply benign and not worth worrying about as he obviously had more problems than she, without spelling it out that way. And I am sorry you don't appreciate the subtleties of sociology but I can assure you someone is using it to fish money from your pocket and convince you that you won't be truly happy until you buy into something (be it idea or product). I assure you this is true. BTW, do marketers provide a tangible contribution to society? If you are a capitalist, then your answer should be yes. "You're not your Khakis"
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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09-04-2005 07:26
Pardon my laughter, but this kind of behavior is just ridiculous. I have no idea the point of engaging you in such a discussion. Your responses were appropriate and I hope you moved passed this incident swiftly after a little well deserved R&R - Ratin' and Reportin', that is.
I, for one, love your outfit and think it's beautiful.
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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09-04-2005 07:32
From: Dianne Mechanique The only thing pretentious here is this statement, it reads like bigoted nonsense to me. On a really good day, you might call it merely a series of sweeping generalisations based on an extreme patriarchal world view. But that does not sound nice either.  Very astute observation. I would guess this guy is a conservative by his statement based on some passing knowledge that i want to follow up for study as presented in the book, currently on my wish list (soon to be added to my wish-list on my blog if you want to gift me one) Moral Politics : How Liberals and Conservatives Think http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0226467716/ref=wl_it_dp/102-9285201-8672956?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=I2HMWX2H776IMM&v=glance&colid=HNU86ZRZ2RTDread the first review where the reviewer states the premise of the book is how conservatives think Patriarchal and liberals are Matriarchal. I haven't formed a solid assessment of this premise, but from the sound of it and my own experiences, it looks like it may be quite sound
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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09-04-2005 07:34
From: Ilianexsi Sojourner Because she's trying to find out whether other people think the jerk in question was right or wrong to say what he did.... whether other people here believe the same as he did, or not. When people abuse you because of how you dress or how you look, it raises a lot of questions in your mind... men aren't used to this sort of behavior, women are. It helps to talk about it and get support from other women. Yeah, shut up Sean  Seriously though, this has happened to me a few times (not the specifics but the same kind of thing) and if you add in all the guys that do similar kind of "harrassing" without actualy crossing the line like these guys did, the number is a lot higher. There are thousands of girls in SL, I dont see why so many guys pester women so determinedly when they are clearly not interested. Check the profile first guys, or get a good "escort." 
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