Avatar Central returning to Aqua

Oh?

I can't understand why this infomercial didn't get move to classifieds by Jeska, but, whatever, I understand it is "special".

One hates to interrupt a beta-test love-fest but the adulatory crowd having now thinned a bit in this thread, I could comment.

This thread is like a snapshot of the Feted Inner Core. It's astounding. All the best of the best strolling down memory lane. Great! But...it's not a Linden build. And...it's not sponsored by the Lindens, but a kind of mimicry of Lindens, by giving it a Linden "look" and making it free...but ONLY free for those who happened to get here first and be in the original Avatar Central, your old buddies and your old pals, and of course, the Feteds, including the Newly Feted, who are the new buddies of your old buddies and your old pals. Why am I not surprised?

I guess I'll go on paying Anshe and Blue and Nexus all of them thousands a week for my stores in their malls, because I figure with the profit motive, they might be somewhat motivated to provide customer service and I'm fairly certain they will pay their tier and not dump me any time soon.

You should not provide labor for free. How long can you go on paying tier? It's hard to keep paying tier month after month. You then can't pay it, you sell, and then the merchants get dumped. Why not make people pay normal rent? Then you get your tier paid and can provide a lasting institution. Ingrid and Marcos can more than afford to pay rent -- why not collect it? If you feel you have to appear altruistic, then take their rent and apply it to *something* -- I dunno, Prim University? Events? Stipends for new players?

The market could sort out who should get a free space in a place like this, because the market is impersonal. But what you're doing is a) giving first dibs to the oldbies and b) giving first dips to forum regs who are feted who are the pushiest to get space.

I don't want space, don't get me wrong. I don't make stuff and don't need one more store. And it's ok for me to dissent, even if I sound like Crabby Appleton at your lovely gala opening, because I raise the kind of pointed issues that many in the game are reluctant to raise, because they fear braving attacks or they don't read the forums.

Have a lottery for those spaces, the way the Lindens did with Luna. I can't think of any other fair way if you are not willing to let the market sort it out, and if you are providing one more example of the socialist wiki that in fact fosters favoritism and distribution of favors precisely because it is free.

Psycho.

You can't let anyone have anything nice can you?

Um, they did pretty well without me having their nice thing LOL? They cribbed some Linden builds, got the somewhat begrudging consent of the Lindens, reconstructed an oldbies hangout, brought in some feted newbies who are friends-of-oldbies. What's not to like? It's all good, it's all nice.

I just think that you are starting to sound like the repressed geek in junior high who resents all of the "older kids" or "cool kids" for having their own groups of friends to which you don't belong. I'm not friends with any of the so-called feted folks as far as I know, and that doesn't bother me. Why should it bother you?

Do you really think you're missing out on anything? If this relates to your attempts to make cash/be famous/NOTICE MEEEEEEE!!!!! in SL being thwarted by people who were there first, welcome to the way things work in RL as well.

Please don't reply to my above "why should it bother you" with one of your rant novellas. I don't like to skim the rantings of someone raging against the "machine."

It's just you.

Although I haven't yet created the signs for them, there actually are departments already:
The second floor is Home and Garden.
The front of the ground floor is Clothes and Accessories.
The rear of the ground floor is Vehicles, Weapons, Custom Avatars, etc.
And, of course, the windows and walls are for Stained Glass and Art.

Eventually I'll have a mall-style Directory Map in the front of the store.

Your 'issues' aren't pointed, merely uninformed. In case you have the strength to deal with the truth...

1. Although I gave first priority to former AvC vendors, the majority of vendors will be people who were never in AvC; and a lot of them weren't even around in those days. My choice of these newer vendors is based solely on my assessment of the quality of their merchandise.

2. The vendor spaces are rent-free to all vendors, not just oldbies.

3. Most of the people who've posted in this thread were not Beta testers.

4. When I really advertise the store, which I most definitely will, it will not be in the General category. And it will not be 'disguised' as a thread about recreating an old Linden build, as you seem to think this is. When I advertise, there will be nothing subtle about it. And since this is a money losing proposition for me, what exactly would be the point of seeking free publicity?

And yes, it is money losing, because I will never recover my costs for the land, the weekly listing, the in-world advertising which I will do in the future, and the enormous amount of personal time I'm putting into this project.

5. Not one single vendor is a friend of mine. Being a true solitary builder I have very few friends in SL, and none of them will ever be vendors in AvC.
Additionally, I'm sure as hell not looking for new friends. I virtually never socialize, and haven't attended a single event in over six months.

6. I pay no tier whatsoever, nor any monthly fee. As a Lifetime Member, I have a free allocation of 4096 sq. m., and have never owned more than that.

7. I've restored Avatar Central to this virtual world mainly because the world was a lesser place without it. And I've built it as a contribution to SL's future, not as a memorial to its past.

8. The "Fetid Inner Core" built this world out of nothing. And no one who actually knows me, which you certainly don't, would ever think of me as inner anything. If I've made any significant contribution to SL in the past, it's strictly been in the realm of Beta Testing and bug reporting. The true inner core barely know that I exist, and could care less. And obviously you don't even know who they are, because if you did you'd realize that none of them have posted in this thread.

9. My business model is a free co-op. That's communism, not socialism.

10. Fairness in running a business? On what planet do they have that?

Who in the world is 'they'? I did this entirely by myself.

And the Lindens' support wasn't the least bit grudging. Lee Linden's reply to my original request ended by saying, "Happy building!" What's grudging about that?

Please continue ranting. I find it highly entertaining.

Why do you keep trying to make this a money game? If you knew anything about the best of your so-called feted inner core you would understand that most of them are here for fun, not grubbing each and every $L that comes their way, and if some of them are financially successful, it is because of unending creativity and hard work. How dare you browbeat people for their generosity. Maybe your second life is about nickling and diming everyone to death, and if so, fine. Go and do it and let everyone else have theirs. We don't need lessons in having fun from someone with so obviously little talent at it.

I think BlackAdder has other reasons for wanting this whole thing to happen. It's fun to make a place that people will enjoy, even if you don't see a red cent from it. I've done it, and so have lots of others in Second Life.

Summarizing Prokofy's post:
"I pay a lot of money and you dont, so obviously I'm going to try and rationalize on why other people should never do or get things for free."
Here's a free hint, Mr. Neva:
People who act bitter, whiney or even outright HATEFUL will never get anywhere in a social world (which the real world IS).
You can get very far just by throwing money around. You can get even farther by getting to know the right people and being a generally nice person.
Look at Torley for god's sake. From zero to hero in less than a month, solely on account of being an extremely likeable person. Torley doesn't have money, or need it. Everyone's more than happy to make stuff for Torley in flashy neon colors, from scratch, for free.
As much as it shocks you, SL *AND* RL have always, will always work like this.
Humans are social animals.

Please keep your psychosis out of my business. Thank you.

that was beautifull Eggy!!!! well said!!!

I think Aqua looks wonderful. Chip,and the revival of Avatar Central, have provided a real benefit to the SL community. All we need now is Kex's little shop in Aqua, and for Skee to return to Freelon with her shop of "assorted" items, and I will be in nostalgia heaven

Thanks guys for making Aqua special again!

I just had this revelation; I'd bet serious money that if I was charging rent I'd have been sujected to a rant chastising me for ripping people off with my neo-Capitalist version of indentured servitude. "You filthy rich, self-serving Fetid Beta Bigots don't know the meaning of the word charity! How dare you charge rent for your recycled psuedo-Linden monstrosity! The Lindens never charged anything!!!"

Let me just point out that there is a classic red Donation box in front of Av Central; so I'm not above taking money from people. Haven't gotten any so far, and never expected to...but I wouldn't refuse it if I did.

No doubt...Chip is the real deal.

And I'm overwhelmed at how much Buck Weaver's gorgeous Stained Glass has suddenly made the new AvC look truly authentic.

What once was old is new again. (Thanks to Feckless Diamond for the screenshot.)

Hey whiney bastards: if you want money, go out in the real world and make a hard buck.

And to BlackAdder and everyone else: Effing wicked, dude. Great job. I love the beta stuff

Awww thanks Katy It's been a great bit of serendipity to have BlackAdder doing his Av Central build at the same time I decided to rework the old mall land. It's turning out to be a great sim! I still have a bit of work to do but it's about 90% there.

Oh crap. Now I have to retract my earlier statement that none of the Fetid Inner Core have posted in this thread.

Seriously though, you can't imagine what your compliment means to me.

A million thanks, Dar.

By simply being "born" nearly two years ago, YOU are FIC.

Inane observation aside, good job. I used to live at Avatar Cental. Even without the hand, it still brings back memories.

Ugh, this is even far, far worse than I thought. Ugh, Ugh!!!! This is AWFUL!!!! Yuck!

I understand that cool groovay builds that kewl beta-fetes made are the cat's pjs, that I don't dispute. I love Linden builds and Linden build clones too because I now have been conditioned to associate them with freedom from clutter and griefing.

The free life-time 4096 is one of the biggest obstacles to progress in the game, because it ensures that those possessing them believe, because they pay no tier month after month, that they are on some kind of free wiki vacation where they can just endlessly create content for free for the benefit of mankin without any heed as to cost, even to themselves, and that what they do is a benefit, and therefore can never be questioned by normal market forces.

This constant lecturing of me not to make it a money game, implying that I'm a RL failure if I make it that, is entirely out of place. It has to be a money game if it will grow and get investors. No RL investor can invest in a game where everybody plays hippie socialism commune while Mom and Dad send the checks. I don't need a game to survive in RL, that's silly, but if you want this game to survive you must make it possible for people to do that normally, without any uproarious provincial small=minded censure.




Gah, I want to get this straight. You are going to award space not just to your friends (you'll find that you have a lot more of them now lol!) but only to those whose content you approve and whom you find of sufficient quality. Ugh! Then why are you seeking to serve as a fake public interest project? Ugh! You get to provide free space, but not let normal forces sort out who gets it, and only allow those you approve? Then do that...but not with a Linden clone, and not with a Linden-subsidized account. Have a little club with your girlfriends and just put their bling out on rentomatic 10 x 10 boxes, but don't say you are "serving the community". Now that I see that you have a) a Linden clone that the Lindens have approved and b) the Linden subsidized for-life property (huh...you're going to put your whole mall on 4096 lol??), I will have to scream about this. It is feted, certifiably. The whole psychology you and others at the core have is visible here in spades. Try to think what it would mean if you opened up a store you called "Macy's" that only *looked* like Macy's and occupied public land on Herald Square but that only was available to your friends, the feted, and those whose content you "approve". Why on earth is no one else screaming about this????



Yeah, we understood that. But only those old friends really got in their dibs here on the public record, hmm? And only those who trodded down memory lane with you in this thread, and only their special apprenticed friends, and they who responsed first on this thread, hmm? And we know you have already *pre-approved* their content, hmmm? Great! Then have a little bling party with your girls on your 4096 but don't call it a project Serving the Greater Public Good. I actually love Ingrid's handbags but I like to encourage a real economy for her and for people like me by seeing her bags in land that either she or someone else has paid for.



So? the beta-test-love-fest is a state of mind, baby, peace out, feel the love.



I just don't get how you get to have an infomercial that is not in SHOPPING. Huh? Jeska? Because...um...why? It is a Linden clone? Hey, I have a box that is a Linden clone too. I have a club now right in the Linden dam. And I want free air time on GENERAL to advertise my club because...uh.....it is in the public interest. Yeah. I just do it as a hobby, hey I do not make a dime, and I never reached the purchase price yet, just bought it today so puleeze Jeska perty please let me advertise my club diguised as a memory land infomercial essay love fest in GENERAL with thousands of people loving me up instead of in the boring SHOPPING.



Boy, I know what that is like! And there is just too damn much of this in this game. And if you would get over the allergy to commerce, and the belief that you always have to be on a socialist potato harvest, you could get your rent just by charging people like Ingrid and Marcos and YES I have the right to comment on big-time prominent players in the game who know the cost of land, rent or buy land, get business on it, and now are saying, give me free space connected to your Lifetime 4096 Subsidized Forever By The Lindens that only YOU can pick as to content quality.

Did the Lindens ever think when they handed out those pernicious things supposedly as a reward for faithfulness during beta that they would one day lead to closed box malls feting only those selected by this guy, barred to others?



Heheheh like I said, buddy, you got a LOT of friends now with THAT offer.







Could the market be the judge of that? I'm confident it will be. And I think it will reward you with constant rentals. But...it means lessoning your iron grip on the "quality control" content issue a bit...and we wouldn't want to do that, eh???

The Lindens Endlessly Subsidize You with the Lifetime 4096. Whatever. And that means they and you get to decide what is a contributoin to SL's future.

Um...you do? Why? Because you were there first? Because they started it? because you're special? But with that kind of attitude, how on EARTH can Phil Linden EVER be expected to become the WWW of Internet virtual spaces. In a place where only his beta'ed feted get to build Linden clone malls, give out space to whomever they please, and tell people like me to fuck off with their sour grapes? Do you get it?


I thought we built this city on rock and roll?

You don't know me either. And you don't realize that my brand of cynical sharp commentary is not "about" you and not designed to hurt you as some individual but to pointedly raise some REALLY important issues here. God, they're important. Phil's WWW of virtual words is hanging in the balance!

Wow, an inner inner INNER core! I saw them once. A glimpse...a flicker...sigh...I shall never know....



My relatives were killed under communism? So that's not an impressive statement to me, sorry.



Planet Second Life which pretends to be the WWW of virtual worlds maybe?

This statement is completely crazy. First off, the new Avatar Central is not only available to the groups you mentioned, it is available to the public to visit. You make it sound like there is an exclusive allow list in place. Now, as for spots for selling goods, there are only so many. As such, as the operator of the store, it is fully within his rights to only allow approved content to be displayed and sold.

Going back to your example of Macy's... When you go into any department store, you'll notice (hopefully) that there are only certain brands that are being sold. Now, there are several reasons for this, but among the most important and pressing is that the buyers for the corporation look at the manufacturer's goods and choose products that are the best fit for the store and its clients in terms of price and quality. You cannot buy your way into these stores if your quality sucks, and you cannot just set up shop in the middle of the Men's Department. Only approved content is allowed in real department stores. I guess all of those brands are feted as well. Better stop shopping at the mall, as it is full of content-barons.

*hands Prokofy some yarn and knitting needles*

Start Knitting.

--BL

I wonder if Prokofy realizes that in addition to being a reward for sticking with SL in light of the fact that it was a teeny tiny endeavor that had no guarantee of succeeding, that it cost money, more money than I myself ever shelled out for any MMOE. I suspect this is true for many other LT acct. holders. I wrung my hands about whether or not to take the plunge for WEEKS. I did on the very last day they were offered.

A staff of RL economists warned them that SL would fail unless they restructured it. They did - and the economists were proven right, although myself and many others at the time were very dubious about whether the restructure would work. The 4096 lifetime memberships cost between $159 and $225 US. That is, in essence taking a leap of faith, faith that a very small fledgling game would still be around in a year or two. I paid 225 a year ago and it finally, just recently payed for itself.

Ah sweet envy. Envy in and of itself is a natural thing, it's when someone goes off the deep end that it reaches the point of obvious sociopathy.

I am sure this post will be met with 1000s of words, many of them demeaning and foul. I don't care. It's all becoming very droll and highly predictable. Prokofy's inability to communicate anything beyond petty jealousy and contempt for anyone not of like mind, despite the use of 1000s of words, prattling on like a madman, is a psychologist's dream. (Or nitemare?).

$$$ sigh

After reading so many threads that turn into a rant about the suppossed fetid inner core and resisting every urge to reply, I finally gathered the energy to reply to one.



First of all, one of the greatest things about SL is that it allows the players to choose which way they want to play it. Not everyone wants to play SL like a money game and some players do. Nobody should be lecturing others about the way they play SL and the game will survive having a wide range of players (some that play it for the money and some that don't).

I own a store so I consider myself to be somewhere in the middle (and there are more of us than you think ). I play SL because I love the creative aspects of it and having a store has had it's advantages. If it wasn't for the money that I have made from owning a store, I probably wouldn't have been able to own land since I pay the monthly fees with the money I make. I also create many things that I do not sell and many that I give away. So even if I play SL and make money here, it doesn't mean that it's a money game to me. There can be a middleground between playing SL like a money game and playing it for it's other many wonderful aspects.



AV Central was a mini mall that held many items created by the residents. To many, it was their first store and their first opportunity to start a business, since it allowed them to sell their goods and gave them some exposure as well. As time passed, AV Central became too crowded with goods and too laggy. It was an example of what a mall-like business can be (it had it pros and it's cons) and showed many residents how to create this kind of business.

Blackadder decided to bring back an old Linden build and has brought back some of the memories that were tied to said build by recreating one of the places that helped form the money-making community that you are now part of. As the land owner, he has the right to choose who he wants to set up on his land. If he was to let "normal forces" choose who gets space, he might end up with some of the negative aspects that AV Central had: laggy, a bit messy and being that many residents had their first creations there, some low-quality goods. So, in order to have this project be a success and have the pros that AV Central had, one needs to be choosy in allowing residents to sell their goods here in the limited space provided.



In my opinion, the objective of this thread doesn't fall into the description that has been set for the Shopping category. Even with all the forum categories, we seem to be lacking some given that I have seen many threads that don't quite fit the description of where they were posted. This thread is about how Blackadder has decided to rebuild an old monument that once existed in SL and place it on his land. I would love to see other residents do this with the many old builds that are now gathering dust in many residents' inventories. Seeing AV Central resurrected gave me the same teary-eyed feelings of nostalgia that I got when I was exploring and ran into Big Red (Shadow's awesome dragon). I understand that this kind of feeling has a lot to do with how I am one of the many older residents (though not as old as Darwin ),but many of the newer residents will themselves experience this in the future when they see builds that have shaped their SL lives be resurrected as well.



Blackadder has chosen to play SL differently than you have. As I said before, there is room for all kinds of players and all kinds of playing (be it for the money, the social aspects, the creative aspects, the sex, etc.). He has chosen not to charge players for the space provided and it's his right as the owner to choose how to manage his build.



Unfortunately, with the limited space and resources that are provided in AV Central, there has to be a tight grip on the "quality control" content issue. As stated above, AV Central had many cons and if there isn't control over which players can have space, history can repeat itself and the new AV Central can end up with the cons of it's predecessor. Also, with all the threads that we have seen on how there are so many residents that are selling other people's creations, stealing textures and exploiting permission bugs, Blackadder has to be choosy when deciding which residents he can trust to set up on his land.



Blackadder went through a lot of trouble just to be able to ressurect AV Central. I am sure that if other residents were willing to go through this in order to ressurect some of the old builds, that LL wouldn't have any problems with it. I honestly don't think that it has to do with wether a player is "feted" or not. All that matters is that the resident is patient enough and willing to go through all that Blackadder has for this project.

P.S. In the many threads that I have seen where posters use the word "feted", for some reason it sounds like another word for popular. If according to this thread, I fall into the category of "feted" does that mean that I am popular as well? Maybe it's just wishful thinking...