Jessie - Terrorists and Other Annoyances

The Bhodi Tree Gallery was beset by terrorists last night at the end of the show Personae. Now, we knew that this was going to be a problem when we chose Jessie as our home, but we chose it anyway. Why? Because of its history of free speech and artistic conflict. And I WOULD like to THANK the terrorists for waiting until the event itself was over and the prizes were awarded.

However, I was disappointed that their attacks were nothing more than a frag-fest. I myself died eleven times, which seems more than a little excessive and definately on the edge of being nothing but grief play. Also, several people had difficulty claiming their full prize (which included having objects placed in the gallery) because the terrorists insisted on killing them repeatedly when they tried to do so.

SO, here's my question. Is there a point where behavior, even in Jessie, becomes griefing? Or is Jessie just one giant frag fest where nothing else is possible? I was saddened to see the destruction at the gallery this morning - again with no obvious demands or communication from the Terrorists, just a lot of junk left around to be cleaned up.

We support and even encourage the participation of our neighbors in our events, and understand that by choosing Jessie we have chosen to live in a zone where we can not ensure the safety of ourselves or our patrons. And there are things about being in Jessie that we like very much. We would be sad to have to leave simply because the line between "total freedom of speech and action" (which we completely support!) had been crossed and it had become nothing more than an arena for griefing.

We offer the terrorists an opportunity to share with us their demands, and would be pleased to provide a forum for their political views.

Bhodi

Read up on an old thread about the wars in jessie, Jessie is believed to be a free for all sim, there is no garuntee of safety.

There were a lot of wargamers at one point and they lost the 4 sims they had (the outlands) to fight and were struck down to just Jessie, can't people that dont' want to die leave JEssie? You already took 3 sims from them, just let them have fun in Jessie, I think we should have 1 sim at least (i'd prefer more) where anything can go.

JV

This debate has been as old as SL don't expect to get much of a unified answer.

Oh and I am completely offended by you calling them terrorists, its not funny considering all the actual terrorist attacks in the world. I just believe there is a little difference between your avatar dying and real people dying.

This was ghost written for me by another secret SL player, since I am bad at expressing myself
It says what I want to say though.

"Death isn't the only result of terrorism. In fact, loss of life is a secondary goal of most terrorists. They want you scared, not dead - that's the whole point. If they really wanted to kill everyone they'd use more nukes. But all that is beside the point -> Second life is suppossed to be an immersive experience, and I find it less so when you drag real world bias and politics into my game world. If someone talks about terrorist acts inside secondlife chances are they're not attempting to say that the temporary loss of an av was as bad as losing a brother/mother/spouse in a RL terrorist attack, they're saying that the attack comes out of nowhere and without provocation, which fits into the definition of terrorism."

The terrorists were part of an organization which wants a Jessie based on their own terms and community standards. I was captured as a hostage and thanks to our rescue party I was freed after dying only 25 times

I have it ongood word Oneironaut Escher helped fund international terrorism.

I am also a non-violent resident of Jessie -- yes, maybe it seems a contradiction and yes, I do carry around a very mean looking club/sword/bow depending on the day and my mood to deal with the random griefing death if I need to. I was also approached by someone who called _himself_ a "terroist" and said "you are my hostage" just as my neighbor Spider Mandala and I were working on a project together. I was testing out my club and beating Spider with it, the self-called "terrorist" started to beat me up with *his* club-weapon at the same time.

All we had to do to get him to stop was to say, "Sir, could you please stop that? We are trying to work on a project here and we would like to do so in peace." He quit, he smiled, he stood around and chatted awhile and then he went on to find more hostages.

It is true that some residents of Jessie believe it should be a free-for-all with no permanent residents who don't expect a free-for-all. I say, so long as they respect my land and my desire to not engage in the battles, they should do as they wish. So far, I've only had two random sniper deaths and other than that -- everyone has been uber nice and chatty. More neighbors drop by to vist me in Jessie than in any other sim I've inhabited. I plan on staying there permanently if I can manage it.

I don't think that Bhodi was being insulting by calling the group last night "terrorists," I believe they were calling *themselves* terroists if my enounter was anything representative. Also, I believe that if you just simply ask these guys nicely to cease if you want them to cease, they will. I think the line is crossed when you ask nicely and they don't cease. I've never asked nicely and had someone refuse to stop killing me. I don't know what happened with the gallery event, I don't know if anyone asked these guys to stop and find other hostages, but all I had to do to keep from getting smeared all the time was make it very clear that I'm open to their actions but I'd rather not participate all the time, thanks. So far, nothing but respect for that.


Having been in Jessie nearly a month now, I have to say that the majority of this kind of stuff happens over by the "bunker" on the northwestern border near the wall. That's the spot where a person is more likely to get killed randomly than anyplace else. I just tend to stick to my southeastern edge, where I, Baccara, MaryJane, and Prozac Feaver live, along with Antagongistic, Spider, and Shadow Weaver. It's actually a little corner of the sim that I find very pleasant and calm.

So, I guess I'm saying -- just ask the neighbors to stop shooting, I'm sure they will. And at the same time, I have to say that there *are* residents in Jessie who don't engage in gun battles and I think, being that there are no rules about who can move into Jessie (it's *not* a war-theme sim, ok? When it becomes one, if ever, then this might change but until then, well, it just isn't), there are going to be a few folks who don't want to engage in gunbattle. That should be "ok" too. Jessie has many other charms besides the ability to kill people -- it has some very nice builds, some great people and heck, it has my camp with it's pretty trees .

Zana

Actually, they called themselves Terrorists, which is why I used that word. If it offends you, then discuss it with them. I respect their right to call themselves whatever they wish.

Zana,

Thanks for your reply. We did ask that they stop killing people - and even asked that they not kill the patrons before the event even began. Now, in truth, I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to kill everyone ONCE or to launch what ever other sort of action serves their political ends. Again, we're in Jessie on purpose, not because we couldn't find any other land.

We are here because we recognize that conflict breeds creativity. Although I wasn't here at the time, others involved have told me about the fabulously creative events that lead up to the segregation of Jessie.

My post really is about discovering whether or not anything counts as Griefing in Jessie. If it doesn't, then I'll stop complaining! If, however, there is a line I'd like to know what it is. Not so I can complain to the Lindens, but so that I can behave accordingly in game.

Thanks!

Bhodi

<rantmode>

Just because Jessie is the only 'shooting' area doesnt mean it should be filled with random, pointless killing. There are EVENTS for shooting stuff up, and wasting 8-10 av's repeatidly at an ART SHOW EXHIBITION is NOT a proper place to do it.

To those of you who say, 'You should expect it in Jessie!', you are greedy, and are trying to dictate how other people will play the game. You are wrong.

This game is 18+. You would hope that would be enough to curb 13 year old equivelent spastic rage shootings, but I guess its not, huh? If you really gotta live out that inner pre-teen, please, go play quake. Theres a time and a place for combat in SecondLife.

</rantmode>

This is a tough issue. I certainly don't agree with folks being shot up at a gallery opening, but Jessie does have a reputation for being a dangerous "outland" area. I love attending Jack Orlowski's shooting events out there when I get the chance.

I'm curious to know, Bhodi, if you reported any of the shooting as abuse and what the Linden response was. Do the Lindens view violence in Jessie as a part of the game, or are they willing to try and regulate it?

And there is some nice land in Tan, if you need to move your gallery.

I did not report the shootings as abuse, because I'm not at all certain that it was abusive. I am still not clear on the community standards for Jessie, although I know these are hotly disputed. (I know the official standards, but I'm not sure about the de facto ones...)

Oddly, at least one of the Terrorists was ENCOURAGING me to report it to the Lindens. So I assume that part of the agenda has to do with freeing Jessie from the Comm. Standards as they apply eslewhere?

And thanks for the scoop about land in Tan, but we really need to be in a Mature sim - and preferably, we'll stay in Jessie.

Bhodi

<two cents>

I would still go ahead and report it, not necessarily for revenge, but as a general 'clearing of the air' over what is and is not acceptable behavior in this sim.

I for one would be curious to know whether this is considered acceptable, borderline, or bannable by the Lindens.

So, I ask you for the sake of clarification, to get an official ruling. I for one would now be a bit hesitant to venture to an event in your sim simply because of what has happened before, and the knowlegde that without Linden intervention, the chances of a reoccurence are fairly good.

Or, maybe we could hope for an official Linden response here in the forum . .

</two cents>

Reese

Just an update -

I was able to speak to the leader of the "terrorist" group in world (SL is gonna get me fired - I'm at work. Luckily, I'm the straw boss, and the real boss doesn't pay a lot of attention...). I now understand the purpose of the attack, and the reason it went so badly - from both our perspectives.

He and I are working out a neighborly agreement, which is certainly how I had hoped that this would be resolved.

But I think we'd all be interested to know what the official stance is on these goings on - as that is, apparently, at the very heart of the matter.

Thanks!
Bhodi

Ive heard some things about it, here goes-

As I heard, they did this to take hostages(cue derek) and make demands, namely that jessie residents be allowed to write their own community standards. Ive also heard that Hamlet was on the scene- Just checked NWN and theres nothing there yet, but keep an eye on it.

Let me clear this all up.

I was one of the "terrorists" that took the art gallery hostage.
Our goal was to get the lindens to listen to us, we want to negotiate the possibility of Jessians writing the Community Standards of jessie. Bohdi, do not look at it as a personal happening, you were just a target of opportunity ;D, and our main goal was achived, we got hamlet to come talk to us, and i am calling an end to all attacks untill next tuesday, but only in the case if the lindens do not hear our argument. If we can come to some kind of compromise or hopefully they will give into our demands. *NOTE* if the lindens continue to ignore us we will become more violent,

btw thanks for defending me zana

we are the JESSIE LIBERATION ARMY or the JLA

Cool!

Do you dress up as superheroes? Are Aquaman and Wonder Woman on your team?

your mocking us arent you
well i have this to say
remember that post when you are looking down the barrel of my gun

Ok, I'm not making fun of your cause or anything. But being named after the Justice League of America is classic! lol

I'll warn you though, if you attempt to show me the size of your gun, I may be forced to return fire by laughing at you!

Acting needlessly violent towards innocents is a LOT more likely to get your account suspended than it is to get your point across. All it takes is a handful of hapless newbie-slaughters for the lindens to shut you down for a few days..

cool it lola! as i said on the av contest thread, sorry for my comrade's trigger happyness, and i didnt kill anyone, i dont think, and it did get the lindens to pay attention to us and we cant get suspended for killing people in jessie, and bhodi did have warning, she could have told you

I'm perfectly cool ^_^ Doesnt really bother me to die in Jessie, I spawn about 10 seconds away.

I only say that because i dont want to see you get suspended over something silly..

And dont blame Bhodi, its not her place to warn innocent event-goer's that her neighbors might just kill them for no reason.........

Well it all started when I commented on the ammount of fresh targets and that it might be a larf to zap a bunch of peeps as they left the gallery with an ambush and help them on their way home. Well any way as I told Bhodi it was hastily planed and poorly executed and Im sorry we disrupted the event before it was fully over.

As for the rest of the political fallout from our actions:
Well im glad i did it cause peeps are talking about it and its important we explore jessie's self Rule and what it means to each of us.

Jack O


We are Jessie hear us roar!

We Are the Outlands...

There Is Only War

ok lola im cool with you, i thought you were putting down our movment, ty for the concern

I told you! ;P

P.S.- Larf?