***HOT*** Prim Abuse ***HOT***

This thread is SO wrong!

1. If they can PAY for the prims, it's their problem, not anyone else's

2. Dragging this into the open for a feeding frenzy is just pathetic. Pa The Tic

3. This is obviously a personal attack, not something 'for the comminity' As such, see #2

This is a PRIME example of how NOT to deal with personal issues.

And the whole thing is really whiney too.

I can't stand 'whiney'

Those of you who say "she bought the prims, she can do what she likes with them," seem to think that because something *can* be done, it must be okay. If the Lindens haven't created some restriction to keep people from hoarding prims, then I guess there is nothing wrong with it, right? I'm easily capable of walking next door and clicking on a build to see how many prims it consists of. Therefore, there must be nothing wrong with it. Choose a standard, people. Hell, I don't even have to leave my back yard to be able to count Bri's prims. That's like telling me I'm invading someone's privacy because I can peek out my window and tell the color of her house.

This thread was meant to include discussion on how we can police ourselves and solve problems without the intervention of Linden. If I have offended someone by invading their privacy, I expect the person to come to me in a civilized manner and explain the situation, so that I can correct my actions. I have no problems with others coming by whenever they feel like it. I was under the impression that Briana felt the same way. Why have a voting box outside if that's not the case? Why not block access to her land, etc etc?

*When* the bookshelves were created is irrelevant. They are just now being noticed. Bri should simply do what is right, and that is delete the bookshelves or create low-prim versions if she needs them to decorate her wall. It doesn't require 194 prims to make a friggin' bookshelf, and the Lindens have already said that prim banking is against the terms of service. If she needs help constructing prim-efficient bookshelves, I will be the first in line to help her out.

Bri's refusal to discuss the matter any further is exemplary of her unwillingness to do what is in the best interests of those around her. It illustrates the inability of a community to solve problems through communication and sacrifice, and is the reason why we need the Lindens to babysit us.

Jellin, this is not a personal attack against Bri or Tae. I tried talking with Tae one on one before I posted the thread. I apologize for not having the opportunity to discuss it with Briana before I posted, but I was under the impression that Tae was speaking for the both of them. If this weren't the case, the bookshelves would be gone. It's just the right thing to do. That simple.

Since you dragged Bri and Tae so violently into the open and attacked them, this IS an attack, there is no way in the world this thread was started to 'help' people, you did this to attack and harm someone. Say it if you want, but it's pretty obvious what this is, and it's an attack.

And why so furious? Sorry, must be personal. My god, aren't you ashamed of doing this? This is just a specticle now, nothing else. Nothing useful can come of this now. (not that it ever could considering how it started) The only thing that can come of this thread now is to generate a lot of anger and hatred not only in this forum, but online too.

If ANYONE has the slightest shred of dignity, this will die NOW! Instantly.

it is apparent that posting requests on the forums is ineffective in this case. Banking even a couple dozen prims is probably ok if you plan to build in the near future and want to make sure you can. If you find someone with huge prim banks or wasteful builds, it is probably better to just file an abuse report. Let the Lindens decide if someone has crossed over the line, and help keep the stress level of off-line SL down.

The way it started was with a friendly conversation between Tae and me about what we can *all* do about preserving prims. None of you were there for that, so I apologize if my arguments give the appearance of being personal attacks. They are sharp, perhaps even derogatory. But they have only to do with the way Tae and Bri have handled this situation, and they ultimately serve to improve the community. Since it is apparent that nothing will come of this opportunity which I have given to Bri and Tae to do what is fair, I will cease my "attacks," and consult the Lindens instead. This is not pleasant. I take no enjoyment from the situation. But I won't stop until I have pushed the issue to its limit.

Nooo, this isn't personal at all.

Of course not.....

The friends and confidantes of a certain two Prim-hoarders would like everyone to think this is a subjective matter, a 'witch hunt'. I put forward that being free of scrutiny leads to greater and greater misdeeds.

I'm going to separate this between things that I owe are mathematically true, and things that are something of a judgement call. Feel free to do the math yourself in your own home, viewing audience! =)

Fact: Each of those bookshelves costs 1940$ to Rez, but 194$ for taxes each week. They have a great deal of disposable income, and a little under 600$ tax for a little under 600 Prims isn't going to make a dent in their stipends. Diagnosis? The extra prims are NOT an economic liability.

Fact: If someone had 5,820$ extra that they didn't want getting in the way of their stipend cap, then rezzing 582 Primitives that cost 582 Dollars each week COULD be a fantastic way of getting around the cap whilst still having a great deal of funds in the bank. Diagnosis? In all likelihood, due to the stipend cap they are becoming effectively richer the more prims they have rezzed. (??? : This is totally theoretical, it depends on their stipends being very very high which is possible, and on their bank accounts being lowered below-cap by these rezzes)

Subjective/Fact? : They have 1,000 Prims in a disposable, cosmetic form in and around their house. Not a flower here and there, but rather a half-dozen objects with density between 35 and 194 and a dozen 20-40 Prim objects.

Fact : The hull of their Yacht is about done, much of the internal structure seems to be worked out, and it consists of around 118 prims last I checked. It would need to consist of 11 times this amount in its final version to account for all disposable 'banked' primitives on their property.

Erm?? : Many of those speaking up in their defense do not own property in Hawthorne, they really have nothing to do with this except for personal connections with the 'accused'. Many of those defending Bri and Tae don't have 1,000 disposable prims on their property, but I invite them to try that and see what their neighbors think.

Opinion : I don't think ANYONE has the right to do what they're doing. If you ever see me 'locking down' a half dozen projects in a simulator because I wish to reserve all remaining prims for a project that has seen little progress in two weeks, feel free to call me a hypocrite.

Opinion : This is the last time i'm going to post in this topic, unless I see some amazing bald-faced lies and emotional appeals. I wouldn't be surprised.

I only got about 1/3 of the way through this RIDICULOUS thread before I decided I've had ENOUGH.

People on BOTH sides of the issue are out of their minds. Chill the hell out.

1) Jade, stop trying to start a witchhunt. You say it isn't personal.... well geezus, stop mentioning names then! Don't mention Bri and Tae every 2 seconds! Christ yes, they have alot of prims. But calm down! You could have easily said, prior to any of this CRAP from happening, "My Neighbors". Don't bring in names if you want to keep it impersonal!

2) Bri and Tae, your bookshelves and prim bank underneath your house is prim hogging, fair and square. If you want a bookcase, I can make you one and give it to you free of charge. Just take down the freaking bookcases already.

Everyone else, calm the hell down. Seriously.

Know what I did this weekend? I worked 36 hours at a retail store, selling stupid people stupid electronics things. I'm so sick of people screaming at each other (and eventually at me) for stupid, inconsquential baloney.

I've seen my friend called an "stupid !sshole" on the phone by some irate customer who didn't want to come in for our 27.99 DVD player special (we were sold out in 3 minutes, and several angry customers yelled at us for not having those broken doorstops in). I've been yelled at for refusing to GIVE merchandise away to people because they FEEL they are JUSTIFIED because their piddly little raincheck doesn't happen to be honored today.

Look, you're all wrong.

PRim hogging is wrong. Jade's neighbors are prim hogging. Cut it the hell out.

ALso, jade and EVERYONE ELSE EVER needs to stop freaking OUT over prims. First COME, first SERVE. Yes, you can mutter all day long that it's the freawking bookcase that prevents you from making YOUR LEET PENGUIN SOOT or whatever the hell else you're working on. I don't care. Yes, it's annoying, yes, it's probably against the TOS, but geezus christ, calm the HELL DOWN.

Are we really all over 18 here, or am I secretly amongst a bunch of preschoolers?

LF

Well of course, I'm sure Jellin and Corwin have never even HEARD of Taessa and Briana before now. (dripping with Sugary Sweet Sarcasm. Nummy!)

Frankly, they have nothing to add to this situation except for their adoration and close friendship to those two. It's good to be friends, but intelligent, honest communication has its merits too.

Why don't they help their friends buy 20% of a mostly empty simulator, or simply in the same simulators they live in, and allow them to move their project so it's both right next to their friends and neighbors and no longer a problem for me and anyone else who wants to build in Hawthorne?

I'm right next to my friends -right now-, I'm right where I want to be, and unless we want to give up 15% of the entire land mass in that sim and move somewhere else at a massive loss, we can't do anything about the prim shortage.

So many people don't seem to have a problem with this, so why can't they sell some land to our prim-hungry neighbors so that they can live in a land where nobody minds???

Oh yes, I'm friends with BOTH Bri and Tae, have been for some time. I like them both very much. So Strom, I guess you caught me red handed.

I don't change my opinion that this attack on them, yours as weel, is far more a personal vendetta than anything else. Sorry, this is just an opinion of course. but I think some people have jumped on this with fury because it's a convienant way to vent other issues and cover it up with this prim thing.

And this includes you too Strom.

As I said before, if any of the people on the attack here have any dignity, they will just drop this like a hot potato. You may think you're drumming up support for this, whatever it is, but in fact, you're all coming off badly enough already. You should just stop now before you look even worse.

Yes... Bri and Tae are friends of mine. Yes... when I feel someone's being unfairly attacked, (especially a friend) I step in.

No, I don't happen to own property in Hawthorne.... I own some in Freelon, which is almost as bad prim and landwise. This invalidates my input.... how again?

Oh that's right. It doesn't.

If we want to discuss the issues, then the tone of this thread should change. If we want to continue as-is, we need the unflappable Jerry Springer to moderate things.

Maybe I jumped the gun on my very first post on this newest sub-topic. I'd say I definitely did. But Jade tried to discuss this with Taessa and nothing could be done, nothing would be done even though she was the one who owned the three most offending objects.

If we can all discuss this rationally, and get done with all these snappy comebacks, innuendos, and character attacks(i'm not innocent either), then maybe we can actually find some resolution. Otherwise we can keep posting until our keyboards break. I know I can keep writing out the facts again and again and again, but nobody's going to read them...

You guys didn't listen to me.

All of you. Drop it.

The end.

Bri, Tae, release your bookshelf. Everyone else, stop attacking.

LF

LOF'nL! That has to be the funniest thing I've read in a looooong time. I'll tell that same line to the cops when I try to explain why I pointed the gun at the bank teller and provided her with an opportunity to give me all the money. Fair is such a subjective word

I've just realized I never had to say anything more, a lot of people have chosen their side and will defend it even when they must make absurd conclusions and tirades. The average person is just wondering why some Oldbie needs 1,000 prims to decorate their house, and I believe the Lindens will ask themselves the same question.

I just made this post to try and save you some time, because i'm sure there'd be another 40 posts here by morning if we don't just decide to let the facts speak for themselves.

And, I know some people think there might be some sort of 'vendetta' here, but I don't hold grudges longer than a day or so. They're barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps they should look to themselves.

With the setting of the sun, begins the night...

..with the setting of the moon, begins a new day.

rinse and repeat.

Strom, it's simple really. I'm not defending a side or whatever, I'm not refusing to 'see the truth' or any of that.

I just simply disagree. Totally. Completely. Disagree.

Your list of facts? So? So what? Big deal. I'm not saying it's fair as in share and share alike, but it's definately fair in the structure of the game.

I will not be drawn into any debates of what 'should' be and act like that's what is.

Earlier tonight you said something to me like "What if I move into YOUR sim and build and bank you to the limit?"

Hey, that's your choice. I got -no- problem with it. Does this mean I agree with overbuilding? No, beyond a certain point, what's the point? But see, that's just me, I will NOT try to force others to agree with me. I'm happy just having one room and a nice deck, a few plants. That's my game in SL. Others want to build big. And I always stop to admire their work when I come across a big detailed build.

Even if they're in the same sim as me and I can't build cause it's at 100%. If need be, I move. I'm not married to the virtual ground I'm on either.

So, in answer Strom, we have to agree to disagree.

Everytime I think I'm done, I see another emotionally driven and utterly empty post. Which, in turn, makes -my- post emotionally empty and, while it may contain some facts, empty of entertainment value.

I think I'm going to step back and let the Groupies contract hoof-in-mouth disease. Meanwhile, I wait for someone who's got a nice expensive chunk of land in Hawthorne to say, no, they don't want to finish their building, they want Taessa to keep her 194-prim bookshelf.

I'm not really seeing the residents of Hawthorne speak up either way. I think they have more restraint than I, and know better than to argue with people who have no argument.

Go ahead and work out anymore excess ranting, then please, let the thread die so you can keep some dignity.

(and to those convinced of my amazing evil powers, yes, I can read your mind, and I know you're living a lie.)

And that just further proves Jellins point in her last post. Calm down and read it instead of looking at it as a flame.

She's saying. There are different kinds of people, those who are carefree (in this instance her) and those who aren't. Everyone's got their own view and their own ideals of what is right and wrong.

Again everyone is missing the issue. Burn the witch. Everyone's focused on one or two sole people instead of the issue at large. Yes you can complain that the sim is full in Hawthorne. Lets complain about Shipley, DaBoom, Federal, Freelon, etc while we're on the topic shall we? Oh you don't live in those. That's right you wouldn't understand what its like to live in Hawthorne. Its different than all the other sims out there that are also packed full of the same things. No.. never. Only in Hawthorne does these issues really matter or even exist.

Uhm... I have approximately 13k on me without liquidating (derezzing) anything. And Taessa has *way more* than that, but it would be innapropriate for me to post her financial portfolio without her consent.

I do not even understand what you are saying about stipend caps. I avoid issues of taxes because ignorance is truly bliss, in this area.

So rezzing items gets me more money on tax day?

Briana Dawson

I woke up yesterday to this madness. Jade, you never spoke to me about the book shelves. If you had of spoken to me before posting, I would have spoken with Taessa, and given her an emotional plea to remove them since I have already been bludgeoned to near death in these forums recently and would have opted for a less public arena for this discussion.

However, because you had your confrontation with her, and then posted the message, i told you inworld that you have to settle it with Taessa and that it was out of my hands.

A 194 prim book shelf is a meticulous work of art and i'm very proud of Taessa and her building skills.

Next time you have an issue that concerns two people, speak with them both first, before attacking them both.

When you came over to speak with me, you did very little but insult us and tell us that Taessa was not creative, etc..etc.

Is a 194 prim book shelf against the TOS? If it is, im completely ignorant of this, but I really do not care since I did not build them nor have the skill to do so. Maybe a pop-up window should have told me when i rezzed one that "the object you are rezzing is excessive in prims and is or could be in violation of the TOS, please hit OK to rez the object anyways". What makes a 194 prim book case any more against the TOS than a 188 prim unfinished 40m yacht, or a clothier store that has empyt boxes all over the wall for future clothes (gasp, that for sure sounds like prim banking/reserving for future clothing item uploads to sell)?

Hey did you know Jeff Lindens Chopper Bike is 88 prims.. When he rezzes it, he takes away prims from us paying customers! How unfair of him to do so when he works at LL and should be more considerate of us paying customers who may need those prims in whatever server he is in when rezzes that Hog.

How dare Governor Linden have a home in the SL world when all he really needs is an email box? He is hogging prims from the needy.

Look out LL, these angry people know where your place of business is, and they may just come banging on the office doors to burn you down next.

In fact, I think all the Lindens should go naked because they're attachements increase sim prim usage in every sim they enter, prims that other people could be using.

Sarcasm is not my preferred language of communication, but noticing that many of the flamers communicate fluently in this manner, I too --this one time-- shall act in Roman kind.

Briana Dawson, why do feel less clean after posting this message?

Briana, that's why I called it theoretically. You have proven that theory wrong, assuming Tae hasn't bought herself down to below-cap.. but it doesn't matter.

Ultimately, we're going to have to agree or disagree, and you could say it's on the difference between communist libertarians and capitalist libertarians.

One side says we should all be given a chance to have the same, equal amount, regardless of our advantages.

The other side says first come first serve, don't have money you don't eat.

I believe this is a communist libertarian system because within a Sim we all share the same -pool- of prim quota. The quota limit, at the time being, is rigid and it doesn't matter what we do we will have the same total pool of resources.

If you don't agree with that, then you won't care about the fact that in a fully-populated sim each person should have 330 prims to their name. If you have 600 prims, and your roomie has 600 prims, then your project has nearly quadruple the amount it shold have.

That -steals- 20 prims from everyone else. I, for one, am short by about 20 prims. I need to rez in 10 game pieces, and I also require some trees and rocks for my project. I'd make Artemis delete her house and everything, as sad as that would be, but someone would prim-bank and make that moot.

And I think you feel less clean after your message because of all the BS. An 88 prim motorcycle is -fantastic-, that's fine.. i'm sure it's a beautiful thing. A NON INTERACTIVE book shelf consisting of 194 prims --- that's malicious.

If people could pull out those books and read them, that'd be nice. 5 prims each is plenty to allow at least one page per book.. but no.. they just sit there.

/// There was more to this post, added by edit, but I thought it was rude to put more into it when someone out there might already be formulating a response..
If anyone else came along and started to respond to the extra bits, i'm very sorry, but it would've lead this discussion into territory that only those involved would have any clue about. This isn't a personal matter, and I feel bad that I had so little compunction about hitting 'Save Changes' in the first place.

I have made every argument that I feel is strong, and I believe that it really comes down to opinions at this point. There's no more reason for me to post, and hopefully I can resist the urge to check on here again and be baited into continuing this whole rant-fest.

It just comes down to the lindens anyway.

Stromko, you come by our jome multiple times a week, hang out and talk. We've had as many as eight people there when you have showed up and talked to us.

I try not carry grudges. I had no grudge against you when we moved in, or you would have been banned from our land.

For you to post a lie such as this is disgusting.

For someone who never wanted to say anything to us, you sure do come by alot to talk about everything except your prim problems.

You were scorned by Taessa and I have never gotten over it and It is really sad because SL has a number of boys (definetly not men) who become attracted to some women and then after an unsuccessful chase, become bitter and aggressive.

Please let this go. You edited the original message to include 2 paragraphs of personal issue that was best left, private and personal. You are the one that brings up Taessa's name repeatedly and how "we left you alone", as well as telling everyone the same emotional sob story, which seems to twist and evolve into something more horrible with each retelling.

I'm sorry that you were hurt, but it is really time to remove your heart from your sleeve and move on. Go in peace.

You are not banned on our land.. But please, if you come there to talk, remember you were not invited, you came by your own will and that you are welcome if you mind your manners and that razor sharp tongue you wield like a weapon.

Briana Dawson.