Will you stay with SL?

If you think my post was an " uh, let's choose a kind word and say "unconvincing" attempts here", you mis-read my post. You might want to reread it.

And one question that comes to my mind is if someone can't afford $15 a month, they would be able to afford $12?

I think we have been given quite a bit here, especially those of us who have been testing for awhile, to be able to have done so for free.

Did we all get too used to it being free?



So have I. It is not really an exclusive club.

fen-

you know impretty freaking cheap in rl but even i dont bicker about the price. i mean what do you expect it to be free? they have alot of people workingforthem and that are acuatly in game and I dunno. I just dont see it as arguable. Its not that expensive for what you get, and hell i love douglinden and this is the only forum of communication i have to put my advances on him.

Very interesting thread here. As some of you don't care to hear my opinion here it is anyway lol

Ok, I'd love to own/drive a Ferrari or BMW, or even have a personal jet....Do I have it? NO.

Why?

I cant afford it. Should the companies who produce the things I want that I can't afford adjust their prices so I can fullfill my wants?

NO, They would go belly up if they did that for everyone.

There is a cost in producing anything for sale...

Look at our SL lives. The only thing that really doesn't cost anything is scripting. Otherwise, to make a cool gun or something in-world it costs us by the number of primes we use to make it.

Not really like the real world in some ways but its a good example. We can't just go buy a ferrari on tax day if we get a huge refund from the IRS, and then cuz we can't afford to live later on, put it in inventory and still own it but get the rendering cash back lol.

Some love SL but just can't afford it.
Ask a homeless person who lost everything due to a layoff and/or divorce that has had SL experience, or any other Computer experience, if they would like to stay in SL. Then ask them if they would spend $15 a month on it instead of trying to survive...

Granted a homeless person would not have internet or possably a computer, but hey what if they could use a library computer or a friends computer...either way, alot of people "would like" to play SL but simply can't realisticaly afford it.

To some people SL is the Ferrari of online games at this point. It is an insult to think they are being ridiculous in thinking they can't afford it.

Can and will some people who are more furtunate then say a single mother/father living on a minimal income adjust their "Leisure" expensis to afford SL? Sure there wil be.

But not all can. If you can afford it. Then do it. Don't scoff someone who has responsibilities that taake presidence over online games or SL in general. The beta was free for the most part (aside from our duty to report bugs and work as betas) and YES there were some here only cuz it was fun and free. I am not one of them. I will try to figure a way to pay for SL. I am less fortunate then most, but will still try.

Now a question for the financial legal Lindens:

In Wisconsin "Lifetime" is legally considered 12.5 years (I think, unless its been changed).
Whereas if you were based in Wisconsin your obligation under a Lifetime advertisement for membership would only legally have to be 12.5 years.

What is your definition/legal obligation of Lifetime?

If $15.00 is so important to you that you weigh it against buying food, paying rent ect... You need to quit playing SL and get your life on track.

What I want to know is why is this guy peeing while he is on the phone. Is that a guy thing?

fen-

Having purchased MMO(RP)G subscriptions since the days of some of the more elite MUDs, I can tell you that $15 is a tad high, but given what you can do and the experience it provides, I would consider it worth it.

That being said, I've been working on a getting a startup company going since LAST April (as in 2002, not 2003) and not had a real paycheck since then (we're almost there), and paying $15/mo will be difficult for me until I do start getting a paycheck. Not that I would let it stop me mind you, but it's certainly not easy. I am very interested to hear what the lifetime membership fee will be. That may be a worthwhile "Card It" expenditure.

I only hope they fix this darned ATI Video problem. (HINT HINT)

The difference there is that $12 a month is nearer to my acceptable upper limit for entertainment spending. $15 is over it by a fair margin, and yes, $3 a month is important to me. A friend, who is a person of remarkable restraint, recently budgeted himself $4,000 for a motorcycle, and turned down an offer that was $150 over that limit, because sometimes you do need to set yourself limits. He could afford the extra $150 without a problem, but that wasn't the issue. The difference between $12 and $15 is not the issue for me, it's the fact that I have limits, and I'm not going to chain myself to a game that requires real life sacrifices. Others may, and that's fine, but do not insult me for my decision, do not compare me to "homeless" people-- what the hell?

But you know what, folks? You win. I will not continue to participate in your community, and I will no longer be considering the discount, whatever it may be. This is no longer a community of which I choose to be a part, because being berated for my financial choices and being insulted because I'm at a point in my life where there are more important things to do with $15 is not entertaining, it is not fun, it is not worth paying any amount per month.

Let the "small loss," "we're so glad," "good riddance" flamefest begin. I know you folks have been waiting eagerly for it.

Ever been dirving in the middle of Nebraska and needed to pee real bad and happened to be on the cell phone? lol

Gail, I doubt anyone here wants to flame you. It sucks when you really want something and it's beyond your means, especially when it's something you've already had and love. There's probably not too many people here who haven't been there. I spent a year living in NYC where my furniture consisted of a metal folding chair, a big stuffed bear, a 12" B&W TV, and assorted cardboard boxes. Ever have to carry your groceries on a bycycle? I've eaten so much ramen that if you strung it all together in one long noodle it would probably wrap around the earth six or seven times. I don't even like ramen. But you know what? Those are the times that make you truly appreciate what you have, especially when things start to get better. They will.

I think what rubbed people the wrong way about your post is that you came across as resentful of those people who can afford $15 a month, and angry at Linden for pricing the game out of your reach. Just because your circumstances mean you are making the personal choice not to play doesn't mean that there's anything unfair about it. I'm sure Linden is basing the price on how many people they estimate will play and what they need to support themselves and the game.

Maybe in six months or a year your circumstances will be different and that extra $3 a month will be doable for you. SL will still be here. Maybe a lot of other people will feel as you do and Linden will lower the price to draw in more subscribers. Right now I think it's time to be pragmatic about your choice and let it go. Know that you're doing the right thing for you... something that everyone has to do for themselves. Why would anyone hold that against you? Don't hold anyone else's choice against them simply because it's not the same as yours or because they're able to have something that you can't. It's one thing to be disappointed. It's quite another to feel like you're being cheated or denied something you're entitled to. No one is putting you down for not being able to afford SL. It just is what it is. Life. Live and let live, ya know?

Best of luck Gail. Hope you're able to come back to SL.

This is where I begin to doubt people have actually read my posts. They see the "no" at the start of the first one, and go from there...

I said specifically at one point that I thought it was perfectly fair that some people, myself included, can't afford SL. "I'm a big proponent of capitalism"-- ringing any bells? I've repeatedly, at least once per post, said that it's fine and wonderful that other people will be able to afford this, and no, I don't resent those people.

What I resent is being told time and again that I could afford this if I really wanted to, which is only rubbing salt in the wound. I would love to be able to afford SL, I would love to have $15 per month that isn't absolutely required by any other expenses, and while I'm somewhat envious of those who don't have to think twice about a price like this, I'm rather hurt by all of the posts saying that $15 is nothing, and what's more, sounding angry at me for choosing to put what money I do have toward other things. I resent the thinly veiled insults, the implications that anyone who has decided that $15 per month is just too expensive, is whining and wants things for free. Saying that "no-one is putting [me] down" is simply not true. Without naming names (PM me if you really don't see them, but they aren't that difficult to spot) I count no fewer than three posts that are blatantly, intentionally insulting (one of which was later edited -- too little too late?) simply in the 'topic review' pane as I am typing this.

I'm not holding anyone's choice against them. It boggles my mind that other people are holding mine against me.

This is probably too late, but... please, people, please take into account the difference between saying "if the price were lower, I could afford it" and saying "the price should be lower so that I can afford it." I've been saying the former, never, never the latter.

I cannot describe how hurtful it is that people are accusing me of statements that are in direct contradiction to those I have actually made.

But at this point, we're just going in circles. People are misreading my posts, and trying to clarify what wasn't unclear to begin with isn't productive. My intention was only to answer the question Yuki originally asked, and give my reasons -- no, because I can't afford it. Never, never did I demand the price be lowered, never did I claim that it was unfair that I couldn't afford it, never did I berate others for being able to afford it. I defended myself when my reasoning was attacked by elaborating on statements I had made to begin with, and somehow this has been interpreted as resentful. I suppose it is a bit resentful to refuse to lie down and be trampled on by those who would believe that it's merely tightfistedness that keeps me from the game, but so it goes.

This is where I begin to doubt people have actually read my posts. They see the "no" at the start of the first one, and go from there...[/QUOTE]

Yep, that's a totally fair criticism, and thanks for clarifying. I have read all the posts but not straight through each time I browse the thread... and well, the short term memory ain't what it used to be

When people suggested that you could afford $15 a month if you really wanted to, I think maybe they were just trying to give you a nudge to give yourself something you obviously want. I take that as a form of kindness, even when it's not worded in the most tactful of ways or ends up hitting a nerve. People are just trying to suggest other ways to look at things or encourage you, not being dismissive of your opinions or situation. I guess I think there's two ways to look at it and they shouldn't be taken so seriously or personally, after all, no one here knows you personally. I truly think most people are trying to be helpful even when it doesn't sound that way. When something is presented in a really defensive way people feel like "what did *I* do?!" and then you get that tone back.

It's just always hard to know really where someone is coming from without being able to hear their tone. Something might sound like a total slam when if they'd only added a good natured "aw.. c'mon!" in front it would have sounded completely harmless.

Then you have people like me who just hate seeing people upset and arguing and feeling crappy and so *they* jump into the fray and try and give yet another way to look at it and just piss everyone off even more ;P In these kinds of forums a thick skin and the benefit of the doubt go a long long way. I'm sorry if I didn't give you enough of mine.

Anyway the intent of my post wasn't to accuse you of anything, but to suggest how others might have interpreted what you wrote. K? You know... that annoying trying to be helpful thing I'll shut up now.

Only been around SL a few weeks, but long enough to see that the opinion pendulum swings to the full arc in both directions <g>.

What a great, innovative opportunity there is here; what a chance to build something never before accomplished on this kind of scale... and what is the price of that endeavor?

I have never been desperately poor, merely poor enough to have to watch much of others' lives from the outside. There definitely comes a point where activities such as SL take a back seat to simple financial survival. Whether that point is $5 or $10 or $20 a month is simply a matter of the individual's situation... and I have been on the end of the scale where I wouldn't have been able to swing $3, much less an "extra" $3 over $12...

Thankfully now I don't have to worry about that quite as much, and I enjoy the luxury of deciding whether I feel a certain price point for SL is worth my time, instead.

But a point lost in all this discussion is the financial reality that Linden Labs faces. This world that they / we / you have all created needs FL resources - real money and paying customers - to survive as well as SL in-world boosters and creators. They simply must determine a price point which will enable the creation to survive and flourish. Without the cash, this entire argument is moot. I'm sure that Linden is aware that for whatever level of subscription price is required, a certain numbers of participants will drop out. Basic Economics 101, folks. I'm hoping the fellowship shown by the SL community will spill over into FL, when necessary to keep those folks who have been an active part of the community from dropping out due to FL financial problems. Heck, I know of a few people for whom I'd pay to keep them in SL... And there's always room for members who could be compensated for their SL efforts in reduced or eliminated sub fees. Yeah, I know that's a whole 'nother can of worms, but it's an option that could be explored for the right people under controlled circumstances.

Meanwhile, I'll be here as long as the experience is worth the price, and I daresay for a little longer. This just might be the next big thing... and I'd like to nudge it along in my own small way.

=SV