Will you stay with SL?

I can't wait to see what the lifetime subscription is That the one i'm waiting for

Yea, I am totally doing the lifetime thing. I just hope we beta testers get a good discount

I had a lightbulb moment.

The LLers call us "lifers"... seems fitting to get a (discounted) lifetime membership.

what would the noise tanks do with out me im staying no matter what

Interesting idea; and of course, it was widely reported that Everquest money could be traded for real money. Given that SL pays a weekly stipend of L$, I imagine the exchange rate would have to stabilize at something where you couldn't pay for your SL subscription with your SL stipend, otherwise you'd be playing for free. Could it stabilize at a rate where the stipend would come close to US$5? Someone with more knowledge of economics (and the SL stipend system) could say better.

I'm glad that Linden Labs is going to offer the Beta folks a discount, they have my support for life. Everyone in the forums that are saying $15 is to high, will NOT be paying that much!! We are getting a discount, so don't say you woun't be staying until we know the final price.

But here is another way of looking at it, $15 a month is 50 cents a day. Put your change in a jar daily and you can afford that.

AND.....comparing SL to ANY other "game" is just not fair! This isn't "just another game".


-TK

Or as Cat Omega would say:

"This isn't a GAME!" Hehe.

I too am curious about the lifetime membership.. I wish something had been said in the email, doh! >.<

I'll be staying. No doubt about it. I'm thinking I'll get the annual subscrition (possibly the lifetime depending on cost, but NO game has ever held my interest more than a year).

How could I leave all the great, smart, creative, and just plain cool people I've met? Or my cool house I built (that's so much nicer than my real house)? How can I resist the pure voyueristic desire to watch the SL community evolve and see what people will be making when they've had a year or two of experience with the tools and scripting language. The whole thing It's just much to cool to not stay involved.

One thing to keep in mind when evaluating the subscription fee. Linden Labs is a small company without the backing of a huge mega-corp like Sony (EQ) or Microsoft (AC). I will gladly pay a little more to such an innovative and independent company. After all, can you just imagine what SL 3.0 might be like?! drooool.

I don't really think of SL as a game as much as I think of it like a giant social sandbox. I've got my plastic pail and shovel and I'm ready to make more sandcastles

That's a really good point, Chip.

I think Linden Labs has developed something very special, all the while maintaining amazing rapport with their players. (when was the last time you saw the founder of EQ, DAoC, etc, strolling through the game, talking to players about their problems, and FIXING them!).

For the liaison presence alone, i'm willing to pay a little more.

For being the independent company in an environment dominated by corporate giants, I'm willing to pay a little more.

For having the guts to have a Mature area, I'm willing to pay a little more.

I could go on...lol...like i said before i'm a hopeless addict.

Anyway, i'm staying, and though i can understand that different folks have different budget concerns, I'm convinced that the price is fair for the product that I'm getting.

SL is just about a prefect enviroment for my creativity. Before SL I could model things in 3d but they had no interactivity, I could play a game where I could program limited behavious and AI's but I couldn't chose their models or textures, I could chat online, but couldn't really showcase my creations. Here I am able to do all of those things and meet people with simlar interests. Their is no way I am giving all that up. I will certainly go for the annual membership at the very least. I am a student but I have a good paying summer job, just a little overtime every week for the summer should be more than enough and well worth the effort.

Hum 14.95*12 - beta discount - annual membership discount = shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I'll go lifetime, we will see.

I understand how for some people $15 a month isn't much. But how do you feel about $20.68? That's how much it translates to Canadian funds. That adds up quickly. Not to mention the fact that I personally rarely go to the movies or Starbucks because I can't afford to. Which makes the argument rather moot for those of us who are students/newly entering the workforce.

Also: The beta discount won't be a monthly thing. If you want a discount at all, you have to buy yearly or lifetime. And you only have two weeks where said discount is valid. Not enough time for my personal circumstances to change, unfortunately.

Just wanted to point out that $15 US or $21.00 Canadian is a lot of money to some of us.

So, unless something dramatic happens, I'll be saying goodbye once things go pay. It's been great, and I hope SL continues to flourish.

Yuki

I would agree that Jason Smith was comparing apples to oranges to some extent, but I would take that in the opposite direction: Those other games mentioned all involve completely premade environments. Every twig, pebble and creature has been created by the providers, and the constant maintenance of the environment is one of the reasons they require 10-13 bucks per month from every denizen.

I agree that the unique attraction of SL is what WE can create in the environment, but shifting the creation and maintenance of much of the in-game content to the users should LESSEN the monthly costs. However, I accept that an independent company with limited resources is going to require higher fees.

I think the success or failure of SL will all come down to the pricing. And I'd strongly recommend a limited time free trial to all commercial customers -- I wouldn't have tried SL if I hadn't gotten to beta it for free. Until I experienced it, I just didn't see the draw and would never have paid up front.

I'd also like to echo the concerns about a June launch. In my limited time here, I don't believe I've gotten through an entire evening without having to exit and re-enter to clear a glitch. I had another full system lockout last night. It would be a real shame for this to fail because of instability at launch.

Actually, Shijuro, having user created content means that we don't have to pay for the software initially. That's a good $50 (on average) saved over other games. The downside is that SL would take FAR more resources per user (theoretically unlimited storage, for instance). The nice thing is that it's a flat rate. I've seen other systems where they might say charge for Linden money as a means to control resources.
That said, I'm going to suffer with the price tag. And I wholeheartedly agree about the free trial.

IMHO it is much harder to make a game like SL compared to a game with more limited interaction like many of the MMORPGs out there. To allow a user to do anything he/she/it could imagine is to invite them finding ways to break your game (for example lag bombs). The comapny who would undertake such an effort instead of just going with the 'status quo' should be hailed for their courage and williness to lose sleep The extra cost is acceptable and worth it to keep this game going. Heck even without knowing pricing I've been considering the lifetime membership

Shijuro, those were my thoughts too. However, I think that the issue is not so much what Linden Labs thinks it is offering us, but what they believe the response will be -- games with broader appeal can afford to put the prices a little lower, and games which don't have such harsh limits on players-per-server, likewise. I really don't see any of the Lindens sitting in a dark room, rubbing their hands together over the chance to extract well-above-average monthly fees from their subscribers for the privilege of making the game fun for other subscribers... even if that is, in essence, what SL's all about. Not saying that's bad -- I enjoy it, I find it rewarding. Just not $15-rewarding.



Not singling you out here, Tracey, but you -- and a lot of other posters -- really struck a nerve. Please try to understand the following.

May I make an observation? May I note that the attempts to show those of us reluctant (or unable) to shell out $15-a-month (and yes, there will be a discount, but until we are told what that will be, $15 is all we can go with -- besides, there are other people who will be in the same position and will *not* have the option of a discount) some kind of "perspective" are misguided, at best?

Oh ye of little imagination...

To rebut a few of the particularly-- uh, let's choose a kind word and say "unconvincing" attempts here:

Coffee, movies, etc: Two problems here. One: do I spend as much as people are suggesting on any of these things? (No, I don't. Nor do a lot of people with my point of view.) Two: would I give them up in order to play Second Life? (Personally -- no, I don't think so. I don't think very many of the people suggesting that this can be done would, either.)

$.50 a day-- Are there REALLY people who cannot even imagine that this could be a problem for someone?

I am a very lucky college student, as we go (read: I'm spoiled rotten), and after rent, I have $8.33 a day. That pays for food and general cost-of-living -- everything from soap to light bulbs to zip ties, as well as the occasional indulgence. You're talking 6% of my monthly check (or nearly 10% if you factor out groceries) -- fifty cents a day is not insignificant. Please don't insult me, and others like me, by implying that it is. Some of us use the spare change in our pockets, and it is not because we are lazy or stupid or uncontributing members of society. Let's put it in perspective the other way-- work out 6% of your monthly income. Would you put that toward a game?

Of course, it's not the job of Linden Labs to make their service affordable to everyone. It's a fact of life that there will be people who would love to subscribe, but simply can't at the price it's being offered. That's fair -- I'm a big proponent of capitalism. But I resent being told that my reasons for deciding against a $15-a-month game are faulty.

Like I say, I'm lucky. My parents (home for summer ATM) did ask me, if $15 a month were to "fall into my lap", would I spend it on this? I have to say-- no.

Hopefully a few of you, at least, will be able to understand and respect that decision, rather than accusing me of not liking the game enough, or not understanding how "innovative" it is (huh? ActiveWorlds, anyone? Heck, Furcadia? Any one of thousands of MU*s? This is prettier, more polished, but not new), or not having an accurate perspective, or whatever it is you folks think is going on.

I'm still hoping for that discount to be doable, but after some of the posts in this thread, I'm finding myself disillusioned with the community. For people who consider themselves so accepting and imaginative, there seems to be a lot of dismissive "oh, well, you're exaggerating, you could afford it if you really wanted to" hand-waving at those of us who aren't so well off.

Gail, I think you make an excellent point, not everyone is able to afford SL - if it had been released a year ago for the same price, I would never have considerd paying for it. The simple fact is I was having a hard enough time paying for food, but was lucky to have a birthday present of half a year of cable internet. At the same time, please don't feel that the other users who have been commenting that $15 isn't worth the trouble are doing the hand waving let them eat cake thing. There are people who just really love it, who find that SL is more than a game, more even than your "activeworlds" 3dvr enviroment. They get defensive when they see others claim its not worth it, which it might not be. Speaking as one of them, after playing for a year, if I were still in the same situation I was last year (not being able to afford it) I would still try VERY hard to scrape up the 50 cents a day to afford it. $5 buys a 20 lb bag of rice, enough cheap flavorings, and $15 can feed you for a couple weeks, until you can't stand the taste of soy sauce or ramen.

But then, the majority of the people who can afford a computer fast enough to run SL, with a graphics card that will run it, along with the cost of broadband internet, $15 is affordable. (I think its a bit steep, but I'm pretty gone, and would pay a lot more if I had to)

I hope that the discount makes this affordable to you, because I think SL only gets better with more users (bring on the lag!!) I also hope that more people decide that $15/month is worth it, because I want to watch SL grow.

bbc

Thank you for the response, BBC. It's one of the most understanding I've seen yet, and I'm glad that at least someone understands that paying $15 monthly for SL is not an option for everyone, nor is it worth it for everyone.

Yet... not to harp on the point, but I see the same assumptions popping up here, as everywhere.



Uhh... Gone grocery shopping in Boston recently?

Can we lay off this kind of reasoning, period? SL is not food. It cannot stave off scurvy, it cannot prevent students from collapsing in the halls. Ramen alone cannot sustain a human being -- I'm talking sheer nutritional content here. After a couple of months, your teeth will fall out. Guaranteed.

SL is not tuition, nor car insurance, nor rent, nor electric bills. SL is entertainment. Some people take it very seriously, others don't, but that doesn't mean that it is magically more than entertainment. It just means that, as entertainment, it's still very important to a lot of people. Some of them will skimp on groceries or tuition or car insurance or rent or electric bills to pay for it, and more power to them. But I find it increasingly disturbing that people are presenting this as the norm.

yah, I was pricing food to show that personally, I have been in a situation where $15 meant a lot more than a few coffees from starbucks. - agreeing with you.

bbc

Ah, I understand what you meant now, BBC. Thanks for the clarification. Still got my hackles up over all this.

Gail, if you saw this post prior to this edit, I am sorry. After a good nights sleep, and a little prodding, I see that my post was mean. That was not my intent. We all have buttons, and you found mine.

Please forgive me, I wish you nothing but the best in your future college indevors. I DO hope you stay, you only make or World better, but if not, I really do understand that too.


I know that a simple "please forgive me" doesn't alway work, and if what I said before was too much to be forgiven I understand. However......

PLEASE FORGIVE ME


Tracey

Only 2.19 for gas?! I'm movin to Hawaii!

Ok our prices did drop just recently so we are back to under $2 which is nice.

I think the real issue is not whether $15 is too much, or everyone can afford or what not.

Its a matter of is SL worth $15 a month to you? And that answer is of course different for every person. $15 is $15. Some people may enjoy SL but may feel that they enjoy getting HBO more, and that is where they want to put their $15. Or maybe they enjoy that extra bottle of wine a month. Or maybe the movie date, even that costs $18 for two tickets here now, is worth more to them.

Its all cost benefit analysis. Everyone does it all the time. Hm, this costs X amount, will what I get out of it be worth it for me? And its gonna happen - for some people it just isn't gonna be at $15 a month (or about $180 a year before any discounts). Even for me when I started EQ I had to really think about it, and it was only $10 a month. But it was only 1 game, and that same money could buy me 3 games a year (games were about $40 then or less). And the question was whether or not EQ was gonna be more entertaining per year than three games? For SL its about the same, games are $50 - $60 you can get about 3 new ones a year for the price of the SL subscription. And some people will enjoy the three games more.

God I ramble.

But anyways it is no ones fault if they don't think SL is worth the $15, no one is holier or better than anyone else if they can't afford it or if they can. Its a personal decision that can only be made on an individual level based on factors that only that individual knows. There is no point in getting upset because someone thinks $15 a month is no big deal, or if they think it is, because that is a decision or opinion only that person can make.

Lets all be friends, eh?

I love how everyone suddenly becomes the opinion police.

I think most people can afford to play this game for a certain amount of time, but one month down that road they will not be able to play it anymore, and will have to cancel their account. As myself, I belive I am one of those individuals that are worried that all our content in game will be lost, if we have to do this.

I feel Linden Labs should add another option to their user agreement, and that is if you cancel your subscription your land will become public in the 30 days, your items will decay to public that are on the land, BUT your account and inventory will be kept on the user database for anywhere from half a year to one year. This way the user (beta users and non-beta users) will be able to chancel their subscription for one or two months where they will not be able to afford it, and subscribe again for the months that they can afford it.

As this game is based primarly on designing objects, avantars, or scirpts, their should be some protection for users that are worried about their inventory that they have been working on if the time comes where they have to cancel their account for an amount of time.

EQ is useing this method on their server as the accounts are still on their server for a year (I believe).

They only gaurantee 3 months on EQ after you cancel that your characters will still be there. They generally last longer but thats all they gaurantee.

Hi I just want to point out a flaw with the "all the other games you have to pay $50 to buy the software". Not that i play any of those games and would definitely choose SL over them if i could afford it. But its a flawed argument. Lets say someone is going to play SL for 2 years (based on the monthly payment) The monthly fees for SL over 2 years will be $350 and for the "Other" game would be $240 (based on a $10 monthly fee) so even with the $50 one time purchase added on SL is still more expensive. I think SL is worth it, but it could never replace HYW for me, and I can only afford $600 dollars a year (well not really but thats what Credit Cards are for) for my gaming purposes. I wish i could have stayed.