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OMG!! Jeska STOP!! please?? End the confusion??

Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-22-2005 19:43
OMG!! Jeska STOP!! please?? End the confusion??

Alright. I know your job totally sucks. And I know you have nothing to go on but Forum "push that triangle" reports. But GAH!!

Whole threads are getting moved and/or closed when they should not. General forum is *just* that. I got a response from Robin today that reads:

From: Robin Linden

Typically we ask that forum posters treat groups and businesses the same way as they treat other residents, and avoid direct, personal attacks. So while it seems reasonable that someone might want to discuss an experience with a business in the forums, doing so in a negative way that could be construed as an attack would be discouraged.

A more constructive approach might be to set up a chamber of commerce type organization in-world, and encourage businesses to participate in it and build up a positive reputation.

Found here: /invalid_link.html

Ok. So time and again we are told to take "complaints" and issues in world. Some of us are taking heed and we are setting up groups, programs, what-have- you to educate and explain our positions to others.

But in the grand scheme Jeska. This is our world you want us to make. Let US decide what does and does not belong where in the forums.

I hate democracy (mob rule sucks).. but I hate more the fact that 1 or 2 people complain and you, not having time to read everything, act on it and that makes certain things happen (namely moving threads or closing them before they have run their due course).

I don't blame you. I blame the fact you don't have enough moderators, and staff on hand right now. That is not YOUR fault. That still does not mean that often threads get moved that should not. That posts get edited that should not. That whole ideas and questions are pushed to the wayside because you are too busy (understandably so) to see the big picture.

How are we to evolve as a world, when we are subject to "discipline" by one person (who has to base their tasks on a handful)? You know I adore you and think you do a great job. But even I know this is a bitch of a task alone.

I see *way* too many threads closed or moved that do not make sense why they are done so, to believe you have had the time to take reports in context. Is there anything we can do? Is there anyway we can help or make known that "while some may be upset, this thread is heading in a great direction"??

Some way, some how, this has to be figured out... . Because every time you take our words from us. You take our world from us as well. :(
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-22-2005 20:35
Hmmm. This is a very interesting presentation, and I half agree - but only half.

While I was originally against the inclusion of "groups" in things that weren't to have negative things said about them, in the case in question here lately, where one person decries a circumstance (which was later resolved to the satisfaction of all involved), I certainly agree with the utter and total disappearance of that particular thread.

As for the threads being moved, it seems like a no-brainer to me that any thread by an individual which is all about making that individual famous or infamous or anything similar (such as "three words to define somebody" - properly already in off-topic) definitely doesn't belong in the general forum. (Regardless of whatever obscure intent to parody other threads it may or may not purportedly contain.)

I, too, have always thought that just looking at reports out of context is a bad idea, particularly as reports can culmulate into a forum banning AND an in-world banning, and not everyone is as report happy as the next guy (or the next gang of guys who all dislike a particular individual and whose reports add up). But for this, I think more help in forum moderation and report handling, in addition to enough people to listen to appeals (not sure how that works), would be sufficient remedy.

I definitely don't think moderating the forums takes our world from us. I think it often saves us as individuals, despite various instances which we each could no doubt point to as ones we consider unfair, and saves business reputations.

I also like democracy, by the way, and "mob rule." I much prefer "mob rule" to rule by a few self-appointed elite. In the case of the forums, I prefer moderator rule - moderators being less involved and biased than most of us. In the case of SL, I prefer Linden rule over resident government. I pay LL, not the other players. Getting some protection in return from LL is, to my way of thinking, part of the service, and forum moderation is part of that.

coco
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Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
09-22-2005 21:40
I'm formally going to request a "Forum Policy Roundtable." It seems enough of an issue to bug Pathfinder and Jeska about.
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-22-2005 21:58
From: Pendari Lorentz
Ok. So time and again we are told to take "complaints" and issues in world.

Time and time again? These are LL's forum. The guidelines are clear. How many Lindens need to explain their position?
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hush
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-23-2005 02:43
From: someone
How many Lindens need to explain their position?
Doesn't this question presuppose that there exists a "position"?
Invect Hasp
Registered User
Join date: 5 Apr 2005
Posts: 200
Abolish Separate Forums!
09-23-2005 04:25
Why should the forums be separated at all?

I much prefer a fluid, dynamic, liquid, roiling, boiling bouncing lively change of topic from thread to thread instead of having them all divided up into separate categories like the guy who made the the Dewey Decimal System was a ghost in the machine, checking everything to see if should get a number of 510.32 or 510.33.

All the user forums should be one, no reason why the classifieds, events listing, scripting tips, scripting library, should all be separated.

I had a thread moved twice yesterday, the same post! It was about making models of the potential upcoming lunar explorer vehicles , and it started in the general forumk, then got stuck in the off topic forum first and then in the building forum I haven't checked yet, maybe it will have gotten moved to the Something Awful forums so the W-Hat's can read it. Who know?

Separate forums are for people like that chef from ages ago on Saturday Night Live that would fold and staple his trash: anal retentive.

We need the group forums dissolved and the threads mixed in also.

That way we can have the pet owner threads mixed in with the animation threads and the general threads and it will be a big bubbly frothy stew of multiflavoricious goodness. Yayzerama!
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-23-2005 05:04
From: Introvert Petunia
Doesn't this question presuppose that there exists a "position"?

Considering the essense or nature of your posts of late by this current representation of yourself, the only exchange I'll have with you is to wish you a better day.
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hush
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
09-23-2005 05:09
From: Introvert Petunia
Doesn't this question presuppose that there exists a "position"?

With the plethora of sex ball poses available there should be a position to satisfy everyone, and maybe three or four that don't generally unless it's with the right person after a little more to drink than normal.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
09-23-2005 05:57
From: Jeffrey Gomez
I'm formally going to request a "Forum Policy Roundtable." It seems enough of an issue to bug Pathfinder and Jeska about.
I would attend happily. I too have felt the frustration of the "odd mod".

~Ulrika~
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Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
09-23-2005 06:09
From: Jeffrey Gomez
I'm formally going to request a "Forum Policy Roundtable." It seems enough of an issue to bug Pathfinder and Jeska about.

Great idea! Please make it at eurofriendly times ;)
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-23-2005 06:48
From: Margaret Mfume
Considering the essense or nature of your posts of late by this current representation of yourself, the only exchange I'll have with you is to wish you a better day.
Would you by any chance be referring to the nature and essence of my posts helping people in various forums?

Or would you be referring to my posts that Linden Lab is woefully inept, comically unprincipled, seems incapable of accuracy in a four line announcemnt. Or is it that I have to post as an alt due to my three day suspension of September 2 for a one sentence parody of bigotry that our fine moderators were incapable of understanding (don't bother looking, as only an empty post was left, with the following two posts flaming the crap out of me because they didn't get it either, conveniently removed). My game account was restored properly, but the fine moderators have "forgotten" to re-enable my posting privileges and my inquiries on the matter have gone unanswered as does most mail sent to support@secondlife.

Or would it be the stream of suggestions that I've made to LL to help save themselves work, that were sound, simple to implement, and yield adverse affect to none, and were utterly ignored (as are most feature suggestions)? And despite all this continue to spend a considerable portion of my game time helping people through Live Help (i.e. working for LL for free)? Might that be what you are referring to?

Incidentally, I'm having a great day, thanks. May I wish the same to you?
Joseph Proudfoot
Proud Tsalagi
Join date: 2 Sep 2004
Posts: 234
09-23-2005 06:51
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
With the plethora of sex ball poses available there should be a position to satisfy everyone, and maybe three or four that don't generally unless it's with the right person after a little more to drink than normal.


I.....I....I think I love you :D
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
09-23-2005 07:18
From: Joseph Proudfoot
I.....I....I think I love you :D


but what am I so afraid of?
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-23-2005 07:54
From: Introvert Petunia
Would you by any chance be referring to the nature and essence of my posts helping people in various forums?

Or would you be referring to my posts that Linden Lab is woefully inept, comically unprincipled, seems incapable of accuracy in a four line announcemnt. Or is it that I have to post as an alt due to my three day suspension of September 2 for a one sentence parody of bigotry that our fine moderators were incapable of understanding (don't bother looking, as only an empty post was left, with the following two posts flaming the crap out of me because they didn't get it either, conveniently removed). My game account was restored properly, but the fine moderators have "forgotten" to re-enable my posting privileges and my inquiries on the matter have gone unanswered as does most mail sent to support@secondlife.

Or would it be the stream of suggestions that I've made to LL to help save themselves work, that were sound, simple to implement, and yield adverse affect to none, and were utterly ignored (as are most feature suggestions)? And despite all this continue to spend a considerable portion of my game time helping people through Live Help (i.e. working for LL for free)? Might that be what you are referring to?

Incidentally, I'm having a great day, thanks. May I wish the same to you?

I put some thought into my original response to you in the attempt to convey my awareness of who you are as well as the reason and my best wishes. I specifically used "better day" to distinguish form the mindless "Have a nice day". Your reaction to my post better explains my reluctance to engage in a discussion with you at this period of time in your SLife.

I'll try again. With all due respect, I withdraw from a discussion with you.

How about this? Dude, sucks to be you.
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hush
Brian Livingston
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 183
09-23-2005 08:03
From: Invect Hasp
Why should the forums be separated at all?

[snip]

That way we can have the pet owner threads mixed in with the animation threads and the general threads and it will be a big bubbly frothy stew of multiflavoricious goodness. Yayzerama!


Yea, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Before they started increasing the number of forums, this general forum was a nightmare to sift through, as it was stuffed full of topics from all over. Now, with the forums organized in their current manner, if I am looking for a contracter, I know to go to the employment forums, or if I am looking for a discussion on the dropping $L, I can head on over to the economics forum. The categories may not be perfect, but they are a lot better than having no organizational system at all.

--BL
--Big time Lurker, small time Poster.
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-23-2005 08:04
From: Margaret Mfume
I'll try again. With all due respect, I withdraw from a discussion with you.


How about this? Dude, sucks to be you.
Oh, but you didn't withdraw, did you? Likely as that would have been unsatisfying to walk away without attempting a final withering blow.

How about this? I'm far happier being me than I would be being you. Have a nice day! :)
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
09-23-2005 08:06
From: Introvert Petunia
Would you by any chance be referring to the nature and essence of my posts helping people in various forums?

Or would you be referring to my posts that Linden Lab is woefully inept, comically unprincipled, ...
Wow.

To stand out as an egomaniac in a place full of egomaniacs is a hard! :)

"I am so great, I am so great, everybody loves me, I am so great ..."
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-23-2005 08:14
From: someone
Wow. To stand out as an egomaniac in a place full of egomaniacs is a hard!
Thanks for noticing!
From: someone
"I am so great, I am so great, everybody loves me, I am so great ..."
This does need a little work on the meter, unfortunately. I have a much better version.
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-23-2005 08:20
From: Introvert Petunia
Oh, but you didn't withdraw, did you? Likely as that would have been unsatisfying to walk away without attempting a final withering blow.

How about this? I'm far happier being me than I would be being you. Have a nice day! :)

You asked me a question. I am of the mind that to not respond to a communication is to ignore. I made an effort to acknowledge you and to excuse myself from a debate with you at this time. I intended no blow of any kind, that interpretation is in your head alone. I would liken that to kicking someone when they are down, which I not inclined to do. Neither am I willing to be your dog to kick when the world pisses you off. You could learn a lot from Jake about how to do bitter better.

I expect a "I am not bitter" follow up post.
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hush
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-23-2005 08:41
From: Margaret Mfume
I intended no blow of any kind, that interpretation is in your head alone.
Pray tell, in what language is closing with "Dude, sucks to be you." not an intended blow? Remember! don't answer as you have now withdrawn from this dialog twice.
From: someone
I expect a "I am not bitter" follow up post.
I hope you are comfortable with having your expectations violated. Indeed I'm quite bitter about having invested so much time in the dream and ideals that LL puts forth but so consistently fails at. But then again, 'tis merely a game, so I reserve that bitterness for here (ok, and sometimes take it out on my cat with a fork, but not too often).
Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-23-2005 08:54
From: Introvert Petunia
But then again, 'tis merely a game

SL is no longer just a game but "special". Didn't you get that memo? It gets to ride the short bus and everything.

/levity

Disclaimer: someone was going to say it, so it may as well have been me with a sardonic, mocking tone towards the concept. ^_^
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
09-23-2005 09:26
In short order;

"I cannot follow the rules, if they are not clearly defined."

Cat
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-23-2005 09:29
From: Introvert Petunia
I hope you are comfortable with having your expectations violated.


This is a great line.
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
09-23-2005 09:35
From: Introvert Petunia
My game account was restored properly, but the fine moderators have "forgotten" to re-enable my posting privileges and my inquiries on the matter have gone unanswered as does most mail sent to support@secondlife.
Yes. I've found that [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] is a black hole as well.

I've also personally emailed Lindens several times on other issues related to the forum (our group forum desperately needs a subtopic) and never receive a reply.

~Ulrika~
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Chik-chik-chika-ahh
pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
09-23-2005 09:45
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
Yes. I've found that [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] is a black hole as well.

I've also personally emailed Lindens several times on other issues related to the forum (our group forum desperately needs a subtopic) and never receive a reply.

~Ulrika~


The bearer of the prodigal Linden child can't get a response either? I don't feel so bad now! :D
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