Would you agree to let LL check textures before they are in game?

Yes, There does have to approve things because of the minor crowd but for a different reason as well. There also approves things so that ideas do not get ripped off. There the company has just bought ThereOrleans in order to keep it open.

Many people have tried to steal the textures and models used to build this great city. If it was not for There's approval the creaters hard work would have gone to waste. Many copies would be lying around and it would be all for nothing.

So if Linden Labs adopts this process it might save things from getting ripped off. I've also attached a picture of ThereOrleans, which is still being built. I have name tags hidden (ah, new features) so it won't look so tacky.

ditto

Well now that I know this is a very big problem i'm going to forget designing for the moment. But if Linden Labs would do something to make sure there is no chance of my designs and textures of being ripped off, then i'll design.

Untill then i'm not wasting my time...

They do; they're required to do so by US law: it's called the DMCA, the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

Don't bother wasting your time, here or in the real world. After all, there aren't filters in the real world to prevent you from accidentally or intentionally drawing the Swoosh with your pencil. Your pen is not designed to prevent you from scribbling little doodles of that latest design you just saw on a Paris runway. An artist's paints do not inhibit the reproduction of the Mona Lisa. In Second Life, as in the real world, we have the right to behave as we wish just as we have the responsibility to behave ethically and morally. Unfortunately, that right has been usurped in There by a childish and irrational policy which offers little by way of protection but which is abundant in inconvenience.

Ok, most of the members in There who joined Second Life did so during Black Friday. That day has passed and they have said There is not closing countless times. Due to this, many of our good designers have returned.

People have created such things that are only imaginable in dreams. There has done countless things to save these pieces. They're acts are any thing but childish. There is trying to save people from getting their great work copied.

That is why they have the approval, so people can be caught when trying to copy others work. Atlantis is well on its way and There will save the creaters work from being copied when it arrives in world.

I have been able to be a part of such great projects. If there was no approval, all those projects would be copied and put in world countless times over. I am all for an approval process for all things in Second Life, not just textures.

I'm curious, how would LL go about doing this? Would they have to have a database of all the textures in SL and screen each new texture? I mean if someone upload a cheap knock-off of something, how in the world would LL know?

Each texture would be compared to those already in the database. If the computer thinks they are similar then a Linden would look at it. If it is a knock off, then it will not be approved and returned to the creater. If approved then it will be returned to the creater but he/she may sell or use it.

Zack, please stop turning this into a "SL should do what There is doing look at how beautiful There is, There, There.", it's fine to use it as an example, but when you push it in peoples faces, it makes you less credible and more to be labled as "troll". And I'm saying this as someone who at one point liked There more than SL and am happy to see There finaly getting some regular updates despite how "little" they may seem.

Anyway... onto the main topic at hand here... it would be highly implausable for LL to check textures, an automated system takes time to develop which can be better suited toward something else, and even then you must hire a person to check what the computer flags, a person whose time could be better suited than doing that.

SL already has the DMCA system in place, if a copyright holder feels their content is being violated, they simply fill out the paper work and send it off to LL. The DMCA is a pretty standard thing now-days and someone like Nike is not unfamiliar with the process I'm sure. For a standard user, this may be more alien, but the same things work for the user as well. I'm sure residents have already had cases where they contact LL about such situations.

Linden Lab's job is to be a technology provider, and we the content providers, it is our responsibility to look out for our copyrights being violated, just like in the real world. There is not a clothing inspector that goes around inspecting every article of clothing ever made in existence to make sure it doesn't infringe on a copyright, that would be silly.

And for LL to check *everything* made in SL for copyright infringement... thats just nuts, the whole infastructure(sp) would have to change and would severly cripple the creativity of the world from its current state.

LL is taking a different route with its content, its working thus-far in most senses, let it be. I think a larger issue is that people don't know how to handle copyright infringement, perhaps a Town Hall should be held or some information made publicly available somewhere noticable with easy steps to do if someone thinks someone is ripping off their IP.

What about all those zillions of textures that are in the commons that people are sharing and using at the same time? They'll throw up a match.

How does LL figure out if they are copyright infringement or not? In fact, how does LL figure out if someone just shared a texture or not? Probably in most cases that will be the case.

The fact is

a) If you feel there is a copyright violation of *your* stuff, you can file a DMCA
b) LL isn't going to activate a highly expensive logistical nightmare that no one wants, no one else does (There is different, they do it for minors), and the law doesn't require them to!

Also, Zack, this forum is about SL. Conversations about There.com are off topic.

Good point, there are alot of "Free to use" textures on the web that would cause alarm when attempted to upload. (not everything like transfer of textures in-world would be cause for them to be "checked", I agree with on your post under this one)

I agree with hell no, since it would make making clothes a near impossibility time-wise, it would be censorship, & there is no way to have a linden know all the clothing designs in sl & judge what considered copied & what not anyway.

I think having to have what we upload approved would ruin a big part of what makes sl so great. (& 1 of the things that makes sl 10 billion times better then there )

Hmm, whatever's my vote. I'd be more prone toward 'hell no' as I do agree it's a form of Big Brother-esque government, but on the other hand, morals only work when people actually HAVE them. I see my things ripped off on a pretty regular basis, and I've never said a word to either the thieves or in the forums, so this isn't about protecting MY creativity. I would be more prone toward a 'whatever' stance to protect the rights of others. And hey, forcing people to NOT steal means they actually have to do the time in the art program to develop the skills necessary to make BETTER stuff, huh? Just a thought

That is a nice built that looks like complete crap. Since the avatars in There look like bloated cartoons, everything that looks too realistic looks completely out of place. Thouse building looks totally out of place in the There tropical paradise setting.


I don't know where this 6 approval rimor came from, but has always taken several days to several weekd for items to be approved. Often you would submit 10 items, they would all be approved one wouldn't becuase it was just overlooked in their MANUAL approval process and you would have to wait sometimes a week until the new update date. Sucked.

Given the sort of content that goes into Second Life, a manual upload process would not work.

1) Because LL has only around 50 employees that are spread thin as it is.

2) Because way too much content circulates in-world at any one time.

3) Because anyone looking at all of this would begin to hate their job.


While there are a couple of interesting things you can do, like compare JPEG-2000s, even a "perfect" anti-copy system would restrict commerce.

Furthermore, how is LL supposed to guess a resident's intentions? They could be uploading that Nike Swoosh as part of an art statement. Last I checked, certain forms of signage and "derivative artwork" is legal.




Now. Here's one solution I would support:

Place a sales counter, by object name and key, at the backend. Because LL has proven sales figures can be tracked, why not compile a list of the most common sales and check these regularly?

This would be interesting. While it would still allow for "low profile" infringement, huge sales of "Metallica CD 3" or "Coca Cola Avatar" (fabricated) would be easily traceable and dispelled by a couple Liasons.

Thoughts?

I don't see why so many people are concerned about protecting big company's trademarks. For example, the Nike swoosh. While it would technically be infringement, I'm pretty sure anyone from Nike would say, "Hey! Thanks for the free advertising, we didn't even have to pay for building brand!" At worst, they'd have their lawyer write a sternly written letter; I don't see them spending the tens of thousands of dollars it would take to remove their logo from an online entity. They certainly don't stop people from using the swoosh on web sites:

http://www.saigon.com:8081/~nike/
http://www.oxfam.org.au/campaigns/nike/
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5232/

As long as its positive and not derogatory, I don't see why this has become the latest "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" issue. Its simple; if someone sees or finds out their copyright or trademark is being violated they call LL, and LL removes it. That's a much easier deal that it is in the RL. Some of my code was being used by a company against the license I realised it under. I cost a ton of legal fees to get that protected, and a whole lot of headaches.

The legal system ain't as simple as poeple tend to think, and no one seems to have a clear concept of what "fair use" is.

Regards,

-Flip

On the other hand, Flip, Disney sued a daycare out of business for having some of their characters painted on it's wall. A daycare. Out of business. Bankrupt.

I guess it all depends on how tight-assed the business is, and/or what image they're trying to portray with their goods.

As for going through an approval process to upload textures... No. I'd close up shop and not bother anymore. One of the pleasures of owning a SL business as opposed to a RL business is that lack of red tape and hoop-jumping required.

Disney is just plain evil in a way that defies all rational explanation. They're the last people anyone should tempt fate with.

I agree. Greedy, greedy people.

First off, Zack... You really don't want to turn this into a There vs. SL thread. You really don't.

You know, it's funny. We have builds and products in SL that are absolutely amazing. Anything Neil and Neph have done, just to take one example out of hundreds of examples, is out of this world (no pun intended). By your logic, they should have been ripped off a bajillion times. They haven't been.

Do people get copied now and then? Yeah, it happens sometimes. But its hardly the problem that anyone in this thread is making it out to be... It's just the old truism about you only hear the negatives. Nobody posts a new thread, "Hey! I haven't been copied!".

I'd pretty much avoid the internet in general if you don't want to 'waste your time' with an environment that doesn't ensure your copyright.

Please tell me that's a joke.

Zack - as you may have noticed - is a new member of SL.

Zack is a player from There. He has seen something There has and thinks SL should have it.

That makes it automatically ON TOPIC.

That he wishes to discuss this aspect of the topic is also in no way equivalent with "pushing it in people's faces."

His bringing this up this aspect and talking about it in more than one post in no way merits the use of the word "troll," as in suggesting he get quiet or risk being called that.

People can disagree vehemently with him if they like. He can then post again, bringing up another aspect, i.e., another thought he had. They can then speak to that. Or not. And so on and so forth. Conversation. He can, after all, have additional thoughts, having read responses to his post. There is not some arbitrary point at which he is supposed to shut up and slink off.

It not only isn't necessary to crush any desire of his to ever post here again, it's bad for the game to do that.

coco

Just a friendly reminder (to everyone, not just you, Coco):

We're getting a bit off topic here. Please try to avoid the meta-discussion, and stick to the actual subject at hand. Otherwise, we get mired in an argument about the argument, which really doesn't accomplish anything.

Back on topic:

The problem is that the proposed restriction are anathema to what SL is about. SL is an open and creative space with nearly unlimited freedom. Suddenly requiring texture oversight doesn't make legal sense, as I spoke about earlier, and it really obstructs creativity. When I'm working on a build and I have to make a texture, I don't want to wait weeks, days, hours, or even minutes for someone to tell me that it's ok to continue building. When I purchase a texture from Turbo Squid, I don't want to have my legitimate use of the texture inhibited because someone else currently uses the same texture. The proposed system is one which stifles creativity while serving as only a tokenistic nod to copyright enforcement. DMCA takedown is a far more appropriate policy.

"We're getting a bit off topic here. Please try to avoid the meta-discussion, and stick to the actual subject at hand. Otherwise, we get mired in an argument about the argument, which really doesn't accomplish anything."

You are correct, Ardith. I don't mean to start a meta-discussion (or meta-argument).

coco