Do Away with Telehubs?

I think this is a great discussion thread and with all the "downtime" threads it got pushed off the front page, so I just wanted to give it a bump in case anyone else wanted to reply but missed it.

I hate the telehubs. If anything I think that the telehubs keep people from exploring. I would be much more likely to explore the remote sims if I were able to travel without spending 45 minutes trying to teleport then 10 minutes waiting for my hair and clothes to catch up and another 20 minutes flying to my destination. Not to mention the fact that those people outside of the close proximity of a telehub have far less incentive to host events or develop their land. Who wants to spend an hour trying to get to a trivia event only to find that the owner canceled it because nobody showed up? Placing restrictions on mobility in an online world without a true game objective which is enhanced by restricted mobility is silly.

Regardless of whether or not I like telehubs, I realize others love them. That said I believe that choice is key. So maybe have a few regional telehubs (leave the ones we have and add a couple as the world grows, allow for an alloted amount of p2p travel per stipend period at no charge (at minimal charge when the allotment is exceeded) and then each person is given 3 top pick land mark choices for instant free teleportation (It should be coded where a landowner can choose whether or not to allow others to set to home...but I think that coding was already in the previous versions).

Bleh I really don't have the answers but the current system is very restrictive and keeps me from traveling around when I actually get the chance to be in world. It definately has an effect on which events I choose to attend.

Khamon, I agree with most of your post. I think p2p teleporting is the way to go. I however have to disagree with you on the reasoning you give for charging for it. If you teleport from point A to point E without first teleporting to B then flying through C and D to get to E you are actually saving the lindens bandwidth. Instead of downloading assets for 4 sims you are simply downloading the assests for the destination sim, not the telehub sim and any other sims you have to fly through to get to your final destination. If they want to charge, ok, I guess we will have to get used to that, but the saving bandwidth reasoning doesn't stand up with me.

Just my L$2
McW

edit: typos

Voted Something Else...

I don't mind the telehubs, they sometimes work as landmarks (ie: Store description: "120m due east of the telehub", but would like point to point teleporting.

The thing that bugs me about telehubs isn't the functionality or the hubs themselves, but the damn malls being put up around them. That's just what I need when I teleport some place, 2000 prims and textures loading in upon spawning. Thanks!

this is true and well stated. i'm bailing out of these discussions to play the game now.

What would make me smile is if they did some sorta trial -- maybe even a specially themed week, "NO TELEHUBS WEEK!", where TeleHubs went invisible and we had to fly from point to point manually for the first 3 days of the week WITH NO TELEPORTING ALLOWED, and then for the remaining 4, we'd have DIRECT TPS TO ANY SPECIFIC PUBLIC POINT.

Yeah... I know, it's crazy, and such a stretch.

But it does get the mind thinking of the possibilities. I'm reckoning that in the first instance, similization would huddle together in small bands of voyagers -- those with flight scripts acting as surveyors and scouts to the main group in a defensive ground circle formation, and a new method of exploration would begin anew.

In the latter, well... let's just see what happens.

Even if a week is too much, a Preview Grid-type exercise might be in order. Just to constrain yet free us at the same time and thinking about how these virtual metaphors and paradigms apply to offline methods of personal transportation.

Just some craaazy ideas. ^_^

Yes I like that too...on rare occaisions I do actually meet people at a hub.

I wouldnt object to have direct TP but I dont like have to pay for it.

You're right, this is changing the rules. But, as far as scams go, I think there are worse ones in the works: /130/ca/29461/1.html



Point-2-Point teleport would not so much be a destruction of wealth, so much as a redistribution/creation of it.

Yes, telehub land will go down in value, but, the value of all other land (of which I know you own very much, Anshe will become more valuable, because of increased accessibility. SL as whole will become more "valuable" because it will be easier to travel from place to place. We'll all be the richer for it

So you mean normal land would become more expensive again? Of course making everybody who just wants some peaceful remote corner of the world pay the bill that telehub land buyers funded would also work. So today we have some telehub sims with 20 L$ per sqm and some remote sims with 6 L$ per sqm. Would 13 L$ per sqm for everybody the right price then?

Yes, if you make everything the same and kinda destroy concept of travel and distance then you remove diversity and geographic choices. I would also predict lots more stores, malls and clubs in normal sims as business would no longer focus around hubs but go to those sims with the nicest buildings and the least lag. This means when you move to some nice place and building something nice you can place your bet that your nice building will attract somebody build ugly store or club next to it

We need the telehubs to re attach everything!!!! Imagine showing up at a party without your hair!!!! EGADS THE HORROR!!!! Telehubs must remain so that we may put ourselves back together before we join the group!

Mmmm, I never defended Linden's decision to flood the land market the way they did. Instead of one slighly lower land price as told us by Philip we were subjected to land market crash. It cost me much money at that time. And I was by far not only one. But I found it pointless complain about it since I would only have been called "whiner" and lynched on forum. I must admit however that I was really close to shut down and leave after first some other land barons mysteriously stopped bidding on snow auctions and then some days later a third and totally unwanted flood of snow land was released after snow land price already had dropped much.



In real life if you make such major decision for betterment of all, such as building new airport or highway, then government compensates the nearby land owners for their losses in property value. At least that is rule where I live now. If tomorrow Philip come to me and ask me sell him my telehub land for what I invested in money and effort so that he can make nice lag free park and do whatever other change to system I would do. Improvements and positive change is nice thing when it is done in some way that is fair and does not happen at expense of some people.

Why have it all or nothing? Why not leave the telehubs that are already established where people have paid a lot of money to get the land, but phase them out gradually on lesser-used old sims, or never put them in on brand-new sims? I've started just using the map more because I find in the newer sim areas the telehubs are simply broken a lot of the time -- I'm always filing bug reports -- and put me "off world" somewhere in the Void.

Telehubs are an eternal mystery to me.

1. They are ugly -- institutional ugly dirty brown, squat, and stolid, like some horrible municipal building where you have to go and wait in an especially onerous long line or three to perform some difficult task like replacing a lost insurance card or proving you did, too, already serve jury duty.

2. They are awkward and cumbersome -- when you land, you bump your head either on the roof or on those weird plastic wings jutting out from them. The wings are supposed to be for landing, yet when you land, you land UNDER them not ON them. And since you can't use them for OUTGOING travel, what on earth was their POINT???? Check it and see -- most telehubs have you land UNDER those things not ON them.

3. Nine times out of ten, you materialize to find someone is on your head, and as you move and they move to extricate yourselves, you stay entwined. It's stupid.

4. Bumbling around, you often fall into somebody's house unfortunately located near the telehub. Because of this frequent occurrence, they've installed annoying security scripts that bounce you half a sim or a sim away just because you got lost out of an annoying telehub.

So I think they should be redesigned to be less ugly, less obtrusive, and more user friendly! That being said, I don't think you should remove them completely.

Why? Because if we restore point-to-point teleporting, and it is massively used, I imagine it will put a huge load on the system, and given the track record, we could more or less assume that this will cause more delays, lags, crashes and not be worth it. Paying for teleportation -- like texture payments -- is symbolic and doesn't really help the server load (we never hear that the Lindens take all those texture upload payments, cash them in on the GOM, and buy new servers, do we?)

Remember, when you ask the Lindens to improve one thing, it inevitably means they have to un-improve other things. So think carefully -- be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

I am not sure about what create more load on the system: point to point or going via telehub. I mostly see loss of property value of telehub land and also loss of de-facto zoning. Some may not be happy about malls at hubs. But maybe you should be glad malls are near the hub and not near your home. And also be glad that shopping business does not drive up land price in your residential sim.

But if lag at telehub is big issue, maybe Linden could keep more Linden protected land around telehubs. Or reduce prim count in telehub sims. Another solution would be to use faster servers for telehub sims. After all, land there is usually sold for more money.

Dont get rid of the telehubs...they are a great way to meet new people...also that is how I met my sweetie *muah* hehe

I think it is important to note that LL did not put Telehubs in so that people could advertise and basically make the hubs unusable. I won't even use them as they are now. I go "ghost mode" through nearby building's walls, most of which are needlessly tall boxes, then I get trapped. It sucks big time. That was a choice of strategy employed by some players, so just as those who bought by the edge of the grid for their own reasons and subsequently lost that perk, I see the possible loss of the Hubs for those who chose to surround them with lag machines and boxes as the same type of risk. There were and are no guarantees.

What if everytime you wanted to ride the bus in RL you had to wade through a bunch of stuff you might not be interested in when you got off the bus?

With any strategy, there are inherent risks, especially when you involve money.

It's also important (I think) to note that everything isn't about money for all of us. Not being able to use a public service because of a few players desire for $ is far more intrusive in my mind.

If the vehicle worked maybe, but cars are a pain to use, they fall into the ground and the scenery doesn't rez fast enough to enjoy it anyway. Planes work, but you only need one to move: people will all use the same free plane that's fast and no frill because what they want is to reach the destination, not have a plane ride (it'll get old after the hundredth time), they'll fly at hundred meters high were nothing rez too, so much for discovering the scenery.
I don't see that improving the economy.
my 0.2 cents.

You know what it's like? Sometimes when you hit a link on a web page, you are first taken to a different page with a big Flash advertisement on it. Then you can click a link to get to your destination. Similarly, when you teleport to a spot in SL, you are first taken to a different location which is surrounded by advertising. Then you can fly from there to your destination. Some people see it as fostering "exploration", I see it as captive eyeballs for marketing.

Well, it wouldn't be like that. Let's pretend your prices are accurate, and that going rate is L$20/m in a telehub sim, and it's L$6/m in a "remote" sim. Last I heard there's about 30 sims to a telehub. So, averaging out the prices, that would mean that land prices would increase to about L$6.5/m. And for that L$.5/m overhead, you could teleport to your land directly



Maybe. Or it could mean that malls and clubs are now free to find land in more isolated places where they won't negatively impact their neighbors.

Why don't do something similar to what happens in RL, as many people here are business oriented.

You don’t really see massive shopping malls and big supermarket stores in the middle of a village or town do you. What you see is Business/Commercial park areas where big chains of stores all sit there together. You go to a shopping park and in the same place you can find Sansburys or Wall Mart, B&Q or other DIY store, Halfords, Car Dealerships, bit Clothes stores, Big Furnitures shops etc…

What you see in the middle of villages/towns/residential areas is instead small shops, smaller outlets of bigger chains, craft shops, small business etc..

Now if we keep Telehubs, the land close to this hubs would still be very valuable.. BUT there will be some commercial related planning regulation… No Massive Super Malls that negatively effect even not shoppers….. but you can still have small shops. For example you can have smaller shops selling a part of what you sell in your bigger mega mall elsewhere and you offer to the shopper a link/teleport to your mega mall
In other words you can still keep the commercial value of lands close to telehubs due to frequent traffic, but they need to be regulated. Use small shops to lure customers in, offer them incentives to then teleport to you Big 10 floors Mega Mall located in business parks where they can find the rest of your products.

Business/commercial/mega mall areas will be placed on fast servers and those areas will constitute good investment. Also because based on better hardware customers will be able to shop around with a better frame rate/less lag and also shopper won’t have to see 50 people rezing up at a village/town telehub lagging their shopping spree… if you want to go shopping go straight there…

This could help with:

Balance traffic among locations

Do not lag people who right at that moment don’t need to buy anything

Still allow shops around Telehubs but of smaller size offering your products for sell and a teleport to your main store just outside town (if you really need more space)

Keep value of telehubs area stable

Create shopping areas where every one will benefit… some one may go shopping for clothes but then close-by there is your shoes shop… you get shoes buyers and attract customers that didn’t come in for shoes in the first place but they may be tempted as they are in a shopping mood… your shop is just there… why don’t see what else to buy since I already teleported into a shopping area?

Allow people to teleport to a telehub, have a quicker rezing time (no mega building) for the to then fly to desired location with less lag and more time to enjoy the scenery

LL will end up with more valuable land to sell:
Telehub areas with limited but effective commercial potential

Commercial park areas with high commercial value

Worth to buy not too commercial land where home owners won’t have to deal with megamalls ruining their views and speed

Still have whole sims and highlands to sell with their own value commercial worth

Well never mind spelling mistakes and eventual flaws… I quickly typed this up and I’m not going to read it because I have to go somewhere…
The above may have some flaw but it may also point out potential solutions

Cheers
Hokuto

Telehubs for islands, point-to-point everywhere else.

sorry anshe. i stand corrected on the point that you defended ll's release of enough snow land to collapse the market.

frankly, if it meant advancing the software to a more sensible, usable, model, i wouldn't care one iota if ll refunded you, and everybody else that owned land within a 256m radius of the telehubs, every L$ it cost.

that might have a drastic effect on the market; but it don't care about that either.

prof, it will actually cause very much less bandwidth for you to be able to port directly to a location, and download that view's worth of textures, than it does for you to port to the nearest hub and fly while downloading hundreds of textures you don't need.

this, i think, wraps up all the technical stuff i was posting about. i'm just going to play the game now.

Back in the pre-Telehub days, I'd just teleport short of a destination, and find a billboard, rock or some sort of other thing to hide behind. All you need to do is make sure no green dots are near.

[text removed via texter]

I voted to keep things as they are. I like the teleportation technology that the Lindens have developed and I really appreciate being able to teleport home no matter where I am at the moment. Still, there is a part of me that loves having to fly to where I need to go--no jet-propelled packs, no fiddling with an airplane or hovercraft vehicle and no dependence on Linden-maintained teleport hubs. I just jump into the air and go.

In spite of the fact that is takes longer, I can go at my own pace and take in all the local scenery as I travel to my destination. Goodness, sometimes it isn't even the destination that ends up being the most enjoyable. I often have more fun getting sidetracked as I spot something interesting or start to explore the area I'm flying through more closely. If I do have a long journey and need to get there more quickly, I like being able to teleport to the closest hub and flying the rest of the way. It helps me to stay in touch with the surrounding area. I never get tired of seeing the countryside.

Before The Erase, teleportation was just a myth that we used to tell our children about in bedtime stories. I remember my mother reading to me when I was a little girl, all curled up in my trundle bed with my favorite stuffed chocobo. She would tell of far off places where powerful mages could conjure a portal that would let them travel instantly to other far off places. I was enchanted.

After The Erase, when my family and I became refugees on Earth, I was only able to fly in my dreams. My best memory so far, after returning here, was jumping from the cliffs of Rodeo and soaring out over the water. Flying on one's own is the most liberating experience. And it costs nothing.

In my opinion, it is unwise to base one's business model in SL around the perceived value of land.

Retail and entertainment are the two dominant industries in SL and it will prolly be that way for awhile ... despite what people think about "land barons" making money hand over fist.

Many of us weathered the L$ and land "crash" unscathed.

Keep telehubs or leave them, I dont care

-AP