Pansies opposed to war

Ok all these antiwar protesters are getting old. Why are there people who complain about that which they know NOTHING about? They complain about war because they value their lives, they can't stand to part with anything that endangers their perfect yuppie livelyhood. Here's a good example from some moron who made a rude remark towards Bush and the war. He said hmm we don't have a very bright President, and he had to be the dumbest looking guy I've ever seen in my entire life. Saying that all that matters is money, yes to an extent this war is about saving the precious oil fields so the greedy corporations over here can continue to rob us blind, only because we as Americans let them do it. The part that bothers me is the people saying they are against troops being there to do what they enlisted for. Of course many Americans take jobs with the pure intention of sitting on their lazy asses anyways so I guess that's why people don't understand the next part. Anyone ever seen The Rock, the movie? With Nicholas Cage and Sean Connery, all people opposed to the troops fighting in the war need to watch this movie, and remember the part where the guy gets left behind when the chemical spills out and eats him from his insides out. Now that you've seen that, ask yourself is that normal? If you think it's a totally natural way to die you're insane. That's the main reason we are over there, to stop WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. I fully support the troops and I'd gladly go to over and fight if the need rose and the troops got depleted. I'd fight till I died, not because I'm patriotic but because I was proud of all the people who took up the fight and lost their lives to ensure I lived one more day. It just sickens me that we live in a society of weaklings. Not one person who is against the war with Iraq has a single clue what's really happening. This Saddam Hussein wants to rule the world and force his religious beliefs on the world, and all the anti war people want to let him build his armies and all him time to build more weapons of mass destruction. All opposed to the war should be the ones who get left behind. War is a part of history, those who don't want any part of that history should leave the country cause they aren't wanted here.

so what are we dropping on them?

the majority of the people that are anti-war are people who do not want destruction of any kind. Yes, they do not want Weapons of mass destruction in the hands of an idiot in iraq. But, they also do not want us bombing the bejezus out of people. I agree, the need for action is there (in my opinion). (it should have been done before it got to this point in my opinon)

But to come down on antiwar people for being against war is idiocy. If you are 100% for war, then you are for death and destruction (the same things we are trying to stop). Whether it's US soldiers dying or civillians, or the enemy. Whether it's necessary or not, a lot of people are dying. More than you or I know.

Don't come down on people for not wanting others to die.....(that's why we are in Iraq in the first place. Anti War protestors just use different methods)

What Val said...

Why? Why would you respond to this?

It's obvious that he's using charged words to incite you, and it's not like someone on either side is going to go "you know, I hadn't considered that, you've really turned me around on this issue, thanks!"

Seriously, there's nowhere good that this kind of debate can go. There's plenty of other places on the internet to go for everything from reasoned balanced debate to rabid frothing flame wars.

The funny part here is how clueless you are. I am very pro war - however - I am also full aware why we are there.

1. Economic Reason (Oil) - After the war you might as well call it the republic of the U.S.

2. Isreali Intrests - A very powerful lobby in this country.

3. Political Reasons - War is good for the economy and Bush's approval Rating, yes even though there are protests he approval rating is up to 70 percent.

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION is a convenient excuse, not a reason.

So If your going to support the war, make sure you know what your supporting. It's death and carnage against another country to promote a better life for us.

Xavier

What Xav said.

Oh and by the way. Agree or disagree with the protesters (on either side) REMEMBER that this is America and it's their right to have their voice.

That being said... I also agree with Wednesday. There's a time & a place. Sure this may be the time but I doubt this is the appropriate place.

Neo,

I'm forum retarded so I'm not sure how to quote properly, but you said:

"This Saddam Hussein wants to rule the world and force his religious beliefs on the world..."

You may be correct in the former, but you are incorrect in the latter part of your sentence. Saddam might want to rule the world, however, it's not for religious reasons. He is a secularist. He uses his subjects' devotion to Islam to get what he wants from them.

*Ahem* I now attempt to step gracefully out of the ring...

Wednesday, I responded because I felt the need....no other reason.....(and yes debates can change people's veiws and opinions.) That said, I agree that the debate could turn ugly if people allow it to do so....so far people seem to decently discuss it....and this is the place as it is an off topic forum for people to discuss things with others that they play Second Life with. (Now if this was posted in the general board I would have a problem with it....but since this section was created for this purpose, I can choose to read or not, as I see fit....

Hopefully this can be an enlightening debate for those involved and not degrade to a flame fest....

Valfaroth

wow lots to coment on here...
Now I know going into this im gonna get blasted but wth ....
Im used to it LOL


Let me start with this....
Im am for this war and NOT for all the same reasons posted here thus far but for alot of them and the fact that Saddam needs to go, and Leader that could stand for his troops to put its civilians between them and the people they are fighting is a MORON and does NOT deserve to be a leader of a marching band let alone a country!
there are plenty more reasons for him to be ousted but isnt that truely enough !

Chemical and Biological weapons , missiles that go beyond the UN Stated distances , Weapons ,Planes (unmanned settupt to spray chemicals) State sponcered terrorists camps, Ties to Bin Laden.... Some of these things are DIRECTLY in violation of the siece fire agreement signed by them at the conclusion of the Gulf War...that alone reason enough to resume attacks since without the agreement we would have already takin him out in 91....

Honestly there is SO much we dont know about this War that in time we will learn ! i would be willing to bet that Bin Laden is there in Iraq and The U.S. Gov. knows it and added fuel to the fire to move in....

Now as far as France and Russia being opposed to this war and are the only reason that the UN didnt send in the troops ( if they would have you wouldnt be seeing marches against the war in the U.S. ) Seems to many are so uninformed and march to march and complain when the facts arent even known in ALOT of cases..

You see France threatened to Veto ANY new resolution that would seek UN Military action because they was Buying OIL from Saddam (behind the scenes against UN sanctions) for several $$ less per barrel than the going market rate.....

Russia also was thumbing thier noses at the UN sanctions and selling small arms , AK 47s , hand held anti tank ..anti air craft weapons...and GPS jammers....

Now since they was selling them for way above actual value and DIDNT want the US to find out they voted against the war....and at the start of the war was STILL selling them to Iraq!!!!

this is the thanks we get from Russia for bailing there asses out of TOTAL economic failure...selling the enemy weapons that help kill our Boys!

My honest opinion is tell the UN to kiss our ass, tell Russia and France fend for themselves and dont come begging the US for AID, grain or Military support for ANYTHING at all...Any UN that has a Voting member on the security council that has STATE funded terrorism is no UN we should be apart of anyways!

Before you march know what your marching against!

Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iraq.

In closing I hope are Coalition Troops are as safe as can be , thier aim is true , the target is sure and thier conciouse is clear
Give our Pres. and other Coalition Leaders Wisdom , Guidance and may God bless them all..............

I like the comment the father of one of the first marines killed made....the peace activists could much better spend time feeding the homeless or something.

Yes everyones free to protest against the war if they like, but seeing as support for the war or presidential approval ratings aren't falling, apparently the protests don't work, perhaps let it rest, put your efforts into something else for the time being....protest at a later time even...if they keep beating this horse to death then the message gets old, everyone ignores it cause they hear it everyday and it has less and less of any effect it might have had anyway.

And some groups just go too far anyway...a few days ago in Chicago when protesters shut down Lake Shore Drive, their march against killing could easily have caused death as even ambulances with patients inside had extreme difficulties reaching hospitals...or women standing at monuments in D.C. stripping nude "to protest the war", was anyone staring focused on the protest or just them?

Sure folks may believe war is wrong....be that the case or not war is a fact of life and has happened for over 2,000 years and will continue to do so. What about the beliefs of service members such as myself who are proud to wear the uniform and do the job we swore to do. I'm sure all those guys who volunteered (there's no draft, they all joined the military on their own...this ain't Vietnam), and are over there defending everyones rights really appreciate being able to see on tv or hear on radio that what they are doing is wrong.

If ya wanna go against the war, try not joining the military, or not buying products from companies that furnish items to the military, but at least spend time more usefully than standing around on a street corner shouting slogans till you lose your voice.

I probably shoulda read the other posts, and I probably should find the .mp3 of the interview from which I'm stealing the following sentence, but here goes anyways:

To anyone opposed to war:

How is keeping Saddam Hussein as the leader of Iraq promoting peace, when he's killed thousands upon thousands of his own citizens?

To this I say:

How is keeping George W. Bush as the leader of America promoting peace, when he's letting a few of his soldiers die in a war over oil?

Er, what's the point of this post? The point is that both sides have very solid arguments, and in the end, nobody's right. Saddam needs to go but Bush is still a cowboy hick (no offense to Texans here, but like Michael Moore said at the Oscars "When the Pope and the Dixie Chicks are against you, you're time is up!"

Either way, I don't really complain. I just wish automobile makers would learn to make electric cars that don't look goofy. That would solve our oil problems

Quick word outside of opinion and conjecture. I generally feel compelled to speak since...

...I was there. Standing at the base of the tower, getting coffee, suddenly thinking there was an earthquake, and then literally seeing the sky fall all around me. When I look out my window, right now (I work out of my home a lot), I can see the place the Towers used to be. I lost literally dozens of people I know, some close friends and working companions for years. Had fortune not been on my side that day, I would very likely not be joining you all in beta testing Second Life, but would instead be just another photo hanging on the deceased persons wall in Grand Central Station.

When the body parts and tower pieces started hitting the street, and I was running for my life across the Brooklyn Bridge, I was angry and frightened. Had an Iraqi been standing there that day, the crowd would have torn him to pieces, and probably gotten away with it.

I later realized, as I was walking across the street from my building in my protective mask so as not to inhale the burning metal that was now the WTC, that any retaliatory strike would have my Iraqi counterpart doing the same thing as me. Horrified and powerless to influence the situation, ignorant of the larger facts, that person would live with that anger and fright--and hatred--until their end. Which, incidentally, could be today. Iraqi Americans and Muslims stand in lines outside the municipal buildings here in Brooklyn waiting to register themselves. The lines and wait are equally long. People literally lay down on the street to sleep, and endure the hatred of passerby. In the meantime, the broken city of Baghdad lies in ruins, the Towers have been hauled away to the dumps in Staten Island, we edit those once proud structures out of our media, and more Americans and Iraqi people are placed at odds by their govenments to be permanently injured or die.

Tcoz Bach.

First of all this War is NOT all about oil!

Secondly ANYONE who makes a movie the way Michael Moore made Bowling for Columbine...should be shot!

The people at the awards had it right when he was on stage with his so called speech and was BOO'd off the stage..for the most part celebrities have used thier celebrity status to Voice out their opinions on this war and Most have been against it with that in mind it shows you how big a jerk Michael Moore is when his peers who are also anti war (for the most part) BOO him off the stage!!!!!!!!!!!

Had no idea who michael moore was until I saw it on CNN, I had (and still do) thought it was pretty neat yet another jackass that made some cash in hollywood feels he needs to use that to share his politics and got boooed.

The guy was there to get a movie award...take your trophy, say thanks for the movie votes and get off the stage, save politics for the voting booth.

Ouch Rivn, as a Michael Moore fan, major ouch.

Have you seen Bowling For Columbine? I think the only way you could not like that movie is if you like to buy or collect killing machines... oh er... guns. Sorry, mixed up the jargon there...

Second of all, there were only a FEW celebrities who boo'd michael moore off stage, and those were pro-war celebrities, not anti-war celebrities. During the booing, moore got a SECOND standing ovation by many of the celebrities in the crowd (I say second because almost everyone gave him one when it was announced he won the oscar, and yes, this is a rare occurance, there were many awards presented where there was no standing ovation).

Michael Moore is very talented at the work he does, and although I'm neither pro nor anti war at this moment in time (I'd like to stress that, unless it invades my personal life, I don't care about it) I do support Michael Moore's film-making, and the way he presents himself to the public. He's done much more good in America than the press likes to let out, and I think you should get into doing that "deep research" you're so known for.

please get your terminology straight before making one-line counter arguments

the phrase "Weapons of Mass Destruction" is used to refer to chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. of which we have not used one on iraq. we have used only precision-guided conventional warheads.



you say this as though he just sits idly while his troops choose to use civilians as human shields... wrong. he orders the troops to use civilians as shields!



wrong again, on two counts. number one, automobile manufacturers know how to make electric cars, it would just cost them too much to convert their assembly lines over, and there is even conjecture that OPEC and other oil conglomerations have bribed auto manufacturers to stymie R&D on alternative fuel vehicles. number two, even if every single car in the U.S. were replaced with electric vehicles, it would not solve our oil problems. do you know how many products are made from oil? well for starters... plastic. look around your room now and count how many things are made with plastic. that's a lot of stuff, isn't it? okay, now what about lubricants? those electric cars will still have moving parts (we'll need antigravity technology to have any hope of achieving a solid-state car) and those moving parts will need oil and oil products to move smoothly. i could go on, but my attention span is wearing thin, so i'll stop here

just wanted to clarify some points here...

Er..

I wasn't being that serious about the statement. I know you can't over-generalize oil usage, that's why the statement wasn't supposed to be taken too seriously.

if you read what I said about the human shields again I never said he sat by idle as his troops used them ....I said he allowed it .................
If he didnt allow it it wouldnt be happening under a dictatorship, at least one he was in control of UNLESS he was 100% ok with it!

he is a monster in simple terms a Hitler Jr who has used genecidal techniques on his own people...

If the US finds NO WMD's they still where correct in going in if for nothing more than getting rid of scuds,silkworm missiles a brutal dictator after all he wasnt allowed to have those in accordance with the UN cease fire agreement ....

But explain to me why he would have to have chemical and Biological weapons suits with antidote kits if they have none of those weapons to be used considering the fact that the US coalition surely isnt going to use them against Iraq

For starters I will not post for or against the war, because both war and peace in this state of being have issues that directly effect myself and those who I care about.

If there was no intervention against Iraq, There would undoubtedly be more frequent and more deadly terrorist attacks against the US and other countries. Which would effect the quality of life world wide. The fear of dieing is in many or all people's minds. Not only that, but how we die. I'd rather die naturally or by most normal means (car crash, plane crash, even a gun shot) then by dieing slowly and painfully by chemical means.
I saw my grandmother suffer with cancer for 5 years and that was painfull for someone as me being healthy for the most part, to see it happening to someone I love dearly. Now to think that any of my loved ones could be forced to suffer a Man made chemical death. While I or any medical proffessional was helpless to relieve their suffereing (another sticky topic) and being forced to stand by and watch them suffer is to aggrevating to even imagine.

With this in mind no intervention could allow for the chemical and other weapons to be developed and stockpiled for useage.

With the intervention there are families left to worry about their loved ones in the war. People have to worry about retaliation and much like the above statement the fears of chemical warfair are still there. But with the intervention the ability for those to stockpile and develope the weapons are very limited. So their inventory is limited as to what they have at their disposal.

But to elaborite on the worrys of loved ones in the front lines, My ex's daughter has a father in the war. Under his command and in his company many have been killed. This poor little girl who has attached herself to me and considers me a "daddy" to her too. Is devistated by the thought that her real daddy could be gone. She even at times thinks of him as already gone. She is only 8 years old. She shouldn't be subject to the pain she is in. She lives with her Grandmother who is the mother of the devoted soldier. She also is having a tough time dealing with it but if anyone has a right to complain, its the families of the soldiers, families of KIA. But still she is for getting rid of the threat that Iraq and those like Iraq. So Yes she hurts for her son and grand-daughter, but she also is smart enough to know that she wants a safe lifestyle for her grand-daughter, herself, her loved ones, and civilians all around.

So as you see I am not for or against atm. I have mixed feelings in both areas. Since neither way is painless, the route to safety sometimes has its consequences.\

Yes war has been around since the beginning of history but so has peace. Peace cannot be sustained without loss And war cannot and mostlikely will never be without loss.

What Val said and what Wednesday Grimm said they both make a good point. Poeple who are 100% for war need phychiatric help because they could go crazy one day and kill someone over a peanut. Also that first post made no sense. if your going to pist make the post sound intelligent and profesional. not bash some poor guy who wanted nuthing more to express his opinion. Just because you dont agree with him/her doesnt mean you should completly insult him/her. Have tolerance. thats what this country is built on freedom of speech,. and if someone cant say " I dont like the war, bush is an idiot"which he is) then whats the whole point of this country? thats a violation of the bill of rights you might as well turn thins country into Iraq. But this coutnry is not Iraq so have tolerance for other people even tho you might not agree with them.be open minded. I do not agree with the wat 100% but i alsot do not disagree with the war 100% I bet bush has his reasons. But i am pretty sure Weapons of Mass destruction isnt one of them. If Iraq has them and Biush throws them away, who's going to throw ours away?

LOL nada

hahahahahahahahaha

SUBJECT: STAND UP FOR AMERICA SPEECH

Last week, the Shelby County (Tennessee) Legislative Delegation hosted a "Stand Up for America Rally." More than 1,200 people attended including featured speakers Chief Justice Roy Moore, Adjutant General Mark Bowen, and State Auditor Beth Chapman.

Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which resulted in five standing ovations, tremendous applause and an encore. It's a short read and well worth it.

I hope you enjoy it as we continue to "Stand up for America!"
_______________________________________

Stand Up for America Rally Speech
By: Beth Chapman

I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.

If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy.

Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden.

I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion?

They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn.

The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as "human shields" for the Iraqis. I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go.

No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war -- innocent people have lost their lives -- and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son.

On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.

On September 11, 2001, there are no photos of movie stars standing as "human shields" against the debris and falling bodies descending from the World Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen -- underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.

When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship -- where were the human shields then?

If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets.

If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity who epitomize courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding!

Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and women who hated war too. However, they laid down their lives so that we all may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend," or in this case, a country.

We should give our military honor and acknowledgement and not let their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield -- they were human shields.

I thank God tonight for freedom -- those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past -- those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future.

America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained silent too long!

We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may hold.

After the tragic events of September 11th, 2001, my then 11-year-old son said, "terrorism is a war against us and them and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them."


So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families, and our country.

May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth!

Copyright, February, 2003

________________________________________

On Saturday, 29 March 2003, at 12 noon, a "Pro America Rally" will be held on the steps of the State Capitol Building, Harrisburg, PA. A large crowd is expected. Come out and show support.

If your heartfelt desire is for prayer and support for President Bush, the US Armed Forces and our Nation, then please visit www.presidentialprayerteam.org. Membership is free.

I hate to break it to you guys, but not everyone protesting the war is protesting because we love Saddam and our own safety.

For myself, I protest against the war because, although I agree Saddam needs a good ass kicking and his country freed from him, I see America's unilateral action against the expressed wishes of other countries on this great planet of ours as a threat to the soveriegnty of all other nations.

America has now set a dangerous precident of declaring war on a country that has not attacked them. (Although yes, they were in violation of the treaty, which technically, wasn't even a peace treaty to begin with)

What country is next on America's list of countries to be taken out? and will it only end when every other nation on earth is afraid to put a toe out of line of America's views and national goals because otherwise Big Brother USA might come down and slap them with a ruler like a nun at a high school?

People in other countries of the world are, in many cases, afraid. Afraid that the America's big eye might point at them next.