A question/plea for the women of SL...

Okay, before I step on any more toes..

What, exactly, is so bad about saying "ma'am" and "madam"?

Let me explain..

I'm a nice kinda guy, I try not to piss anyone off. I was brought up to respect women, etc. etc. Now, I do that sometimes by saying "yes ma'am" or something similar... or when saying goodbye, I might remark "cya madam", followed by the obligatory smiley face emoticion.

This, apprently, is a big social faux-pas.

Some people think of it as an insult, some think of it as age discrimination, others even find it sexist... I just find it polite, and now I'm all scared to talk to anyone

What would ya'll prefer? Would you prefer me saying "yeah, man" or "cya later, dude?"

I don't want to be sexist, I just want to be friendly and polite.

So, if you see me in-world, and you hear me say to you "ma'am" or "madam", please don't punch me

Lordfly

Sorry to interrupt your thread here Lordfly, but how is it that you can say:

"I'm a nice kinda guy, I try not to piss anyone off. "

Yet you are doing just that with your childish sign?

lol..

I don't understand why someone would get 'offended' in any way by you saying that, people need to lighten up

say it all you want lord

Realy dont understand this myself, ran into it before but dont use that phrase alot myself.

PS: What sign?

If you're offending people by saying ma'am or madam it's probably because that makes them feel old, not because they see it as sexist. Or they might be the kind of person who loves to be offended.

I never say, "See you later, Sir" or "Catch you later, mister." to any of the guys I talk to in SL or RL.

As a guy, perhaps I'm not equipped to "get it," but maybe that's where the objection stems from--it's a superfluous honorific that draws attention to the gender of the other party.

I think I have some idea of how it feels. My personal pet peeve is when people add the diminutive, "dear," when they ask me questions.

"What'll you have, dear?"
"What can I do for you, dear?"

It makes me feel four years old. It certainly doesn't leave a guy a lot of room to feel "macho." And yeah, it's the ladies who do this. It's their equivalent, unintentional (I hope!) faux pas.

Might I suggest simply dropping the "Ma'am" / "Madam" and saying just "yeah" / "cya later" / etc?
Less to type and saves your fingers

Seriously... I know what you mean, and thats one of the reasons I usualy omit any references like the above, unless it's someone who knows me well enough to not take offence.

/Edit:
Hehe... I didn't read the thread title properly lol. I'm a BLOKE by the way, adding his L$

Bob, the sign is personal opinion. It is on my land, it is my own prims, I pay my own taxes on it. If you don't like it, don't fly over there.

I have an issue with your policies with certain things, Bob, and that sign is my protest of said policies. I thought we went through this?

Lordfly

This may be a cultural thing, but I would say "Sir" or "Ma'am" only when addressing a senior or superior. Even then, it's only when I want them to know I recognize it.

It's also used as an honorific when addressing someone you don't know, but since our names are pasted over our heads all the time here, using it instead of someone's name is actually a bit rude. It suggests you don't even bother to remember a name when it's right there on the screen.

And please, save the pet names like "hon" and "dear" for people you actually have a familiar relationship with.

So, you just say, "I'm not trying to piss anyone off", but you really don't mean it?

OK, just wanted to understand where you were coming from. Good to know you are just a talker and not someone that actually lives up to what he says.




Thanks!

Hmm. Fair enough. Looks like I'll have to make myself not type in "ma'am" or "madam" anymore.

Thanks

Lordfly

Let me edit a bit - there are certain times when saying, "Yes, Ma'am!" could be a smart thing to do.

Dare I ask, what the sign in question says?

Now thats not fair. Its either an acceptable term or its not, this kind of double standard "its ok when we want it to be ok" is not fair, at least in so much as you are not letting us (guys) know when is when

PS: Yea, whats this sign business?

For sign info, please fly by the borders between Slate and Teal. Look for a 5-meter wooden sign.

Any questions or comments, please direct them to me ingame. I don't want to start a flame war on the boards.

Lordfly

Cant >_< -turn on PM's for us

Since when has any social rule been universal?

Most places in SL, you're going to meet women who are just out to have a pleasant time with friends. Calling them "Ma'am" is likely to make them feel old, I agree. It's an honorific labeling someone as a senior, often sarcastically.

Now on the other hand, you might get into trouble in Club Midnight if you leave out the honorific, though there it's "Yes, Mistress".

I don't under stand feeling old because somone calls you 'sir' or 'mam' its not a lable of age or even seniority, mearly respect.

Heaven forbid we respect one another...

As far as the familiar labels go, some people just speak that way. Visit Texas or Louisiana for a bit and you'll see what I mean. Its not 'forgetting' the name floating infront of them, heck you cant, its right there.

To me, it's a term you use to address an older woman, or a school teacher. Not something I would get offended over though.

In fact, while I was teaching a building class one of the participants said 'Yes, ma'am" - I couldn't type for laughing for a good few minutes

Good comment, Gwydeon! I agree with you completely. If you've had a pleasant conversation with someone and they end with one of those words or a form of those words, wouldn't you just think "Oh, that's they way they were brought up or the way they talk to everyone" rather than "OMG, they're talking down to me.. or they're making a smart remark"?

Being called "sir" gives me a feeling of respect from another person... not being called an old phart. lol

For the women in the audiance...

www.dictionary.com

4 entries found for ma'am.
ma'am ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mm)
n.
Used as a form of polite address for a woman: Will that be cash or charge, ma'am?

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
[Buy it]


ma'am

\Ma'am\, n. Madam; my lady; -- a colloquial contraction of madam often used in direct address, and sometimes as an appellation.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


ma'am

n : a woman of refinement [syn: dame, madam, madame, lady, gentlewoman]


Madame is MORE polight (Will pull definition if interested)
No where does either say anything about age >_<

So more power to you Lordfly, Dont let the degredation of society destroy chivalry!

this is interesting, as i've been in the position where i was trying to figure out *how* to address a group of fellow SLers who are female.

not that it concerns me greatly, as i'm sure if i pissed someone off, they would let me know.

but, it is still very interesting how changing the label also changes the feel of what you are saying.

girls, women, ladies, mistresses, doms... dear, oh dear, what to say?

Ok, why is there a problem with this? Classism. Plus, all too often it indicates that the person using it DISrespects the other.

Here's a few more definitions of Madam, from the American Heritage Dictionary, 2nd College Edition:

1 a. Used as a title of courtesy in addressing a woman. b. Used formerly as a title of courtesy before a given name but now used only before a surname or a title indicating rank or office Madam Ambassador

That's ok so far. But here's a few more:

2. madam. The mistress of a household.
3. madam. A woman who manages a brothel.

The real problem with words like this is that the meaning conveyed depends a LOT on the tone in which it is said. In my experience, the only time it wasn't used sarcastically is when I actually was someone's superior.

Like I said before, though, it's a cultural thing. Where I'm from, titles like this generally imply classism, or indicate relative rank in the military. It doesn't sit well with us western wild-eyed individualists.

The problem with this is it's next to impossible to tell the tone of voice a person is typing in. People can get very offended over something that was meant to make them laugh, or feel good about themselves. Just one of the limitations of text...

sorry, ananda, i have to disagree with the 'wild west' comment. i'm a western u.s. native, and was raised to address women as ma'am or madam.

interestingly, i'm not sure that i agree with the classism comment either, as this was emphasized by both sides of my family, one side of which has lots of $$$ and the other side of which is lower-middle class at best.

**i also wanted to add that, i can see how someone might be offended, so i, for one, will not address anyone by anything other than thier name (unless i know you well and have a pet name for you!)

also, you presume a negative with regard to the definition of madam being the manager of a brothel. while you might find that a negative, i do not. where i was born, it is a LEGAL career.