Starting the 15th, No more land under 16k m.sq in auctions!

I will reserve my critique until after the Town Hall, with the exception of an issue Robin raised in this post over in land and economy just a little while ago:



That bolded portion concerns me. Does this mean they are going to start putting newbies on 512's in the middle of existing neighborhoods? Does this mean that none of the reclaimed land will ever go to auction again? The way I am seeing it, the answers are yes.

If so, this means the only way to attain more land within one's sim of residence is to purchase it directly from a neighbor. This will cripple a lot of folks with plans to expand in their home sim.

Anyone see it differently?

P.S. - I will definately try to ask this question at the Town Hall.

Perhaps noob sims now?

Yes, she does state that there will be new sims coming online that will be parceled into 1st land, but then goes on to say that reclaimed land - which currently goes to the auction block - will be parceled into 1st land. That will have several effects, and IMO, none of them will be very positive.

If the main grid sims really are limitless, and release is judged solely by demand, how can they go much above US$1000? I mean you would first of all bid the 1k. If you get outbid, why bid again, start again on the next sim lol.

Hmmm now I'm wondeing if this has anything to do with "filling the void"

Actually, if it worked just like that, can you imagine? First of all it would set the price to one fixed figure pretty much. Second of all, no land dealer would have as much control. I mean they are faced with someone who wants a sim at 1k, starting up a new auction everytime it goes over that, a land dealer trying to push the price up is going to have to keep buying the sims infinitly. Anfd they wont do that of course. So surely, this is not so bad for the little guy?

I dont get it really. I have always thought that the Lindens would be happier with more land owners carrying a tier. Land needs to be easy to obtain. With the minimum bid being $1000, that will set the break even point on a 512m plot at about L$4000. L$4000 if no one bids on the sim and its won at $1000, doesnt account for a bid war where it goes for $1500 or more.

So the new player has L$750 starting money. They spend L$512 on their little first land plot (if they can find one) and buy a couple of things and they might have have a balance of L$100, maybe. So, they decide they want to carry a tier (money for lindens) and they decide to save their money for more land. Without spending a dime of stipend, it will take two months to save up enough for an additional 512m plot.

Okay, so they are lazy bums and need to get a job to make it happen faster. Or, spend money with GOM or IGE or something. Thats fine I guess, but many just spent $10 a month or $72 for an annual and its sort of discouraging to have to go out and spend more money on currency to afford to buy more land or work your ass off to make money in world.

It just seems backwards to me. Seems to me the money is in having happy customers carrying an additional $8 - $40 - $200 tier. Getting the land to create the tier ought to be easy to obtain and not some huge investment. I dunno, I hope it works out. I just dont get it really.

Well I am sure that most of the newbies that you mention rarely go to auction, they buy off the land dealers. So nothing changes there.

I bought three plots in auction, L$16000 for 4096m, L$10000 for 2048m and L$85 for 2048m. The last two were expensive and when the auctions were new and I got into a stupid bid war, but the point is, I would spend $100 for a good size auction plot. No way I can spend $1000 on a sim.

So, just spend the $100 with GOM and buy land from a broker? Okay, fine, Im defeated. Some will do that, many wont.

It still doesnt moot my point that a tier ought to be the prize linden should seek. Cheap land with the ongoing monthly tier seems logical to me, but Im not on the inside dealing with it. I am just the guy trying to explain it all to the newbie that doesnt know how to find first land thats not available.

I completely sympathise for the likes of yourself that it affects. My point is that I think you're in the minority, most buy from in world and not at auctions (which makes it no less of a bummer of course). It doesn't affect me personaly, well not directly. I'm still screwing about the hike in private estate sims That's what affects me (altho again the minority).

My thought was for a sim to be the smallest parcel of land that a resident could "own" (rent monthly from LL). Sim owners would then be able to subdivide and rent the land through an interface much like the one we use to price and sell land now. The difference would be a time frame during which the secondary rentor would "own" the parcel for a set fee. As long as the tenet paid their rent, they'd "own" the land with full rights. When they stopped paying, the land would revert to the sim owner's control for resale or reauction assuming a resident controlled auction facility had been added. The only real difference was that most of us would purchase land from, and pay tier to, another resident rather than LL.

Another contingent point was that sim owners would have the ability to log into and manage their simulator machines or host their sims at their own colocations. This was back when I thought LL was trying to develop a new Internet service by seeding a metaverse of w3b spaces. I do think the announced changes will meet the needs and goals of LL's current business plan as far as I can discern it.

I think Philip Rosedale is the smartest man in the world. He has people paying large sums of real money for make believe land. The only guy in the world who has a business plan that fits on a 3X5 index card.

Step 1. Create make believe world in computer
Step 2. connect to internet
Step 3. Sell make believe land to end users
Step 4. Print make believe money that can be sold to end users
Step 5. Repeate Steps 3-5

In a nut shell they are playing you guys for saps. As you clamour over this land like it's a gold Mr Rosedale's bank account gets larger. Someday he will figure he has made enough money and purchase a real island. Second Life gets tossed in to the bit bucket. Then what do you have to show for it a blank computer screen and Phililp drinking rum and cokes in the sun. Your broke and he is having a good laugh on you.

Then there are the land barons. A favorite example from Linden Labs of why this land trading is a good thing is because you can become rich beyond your dreams, just ask Anshe. For every Anshe how many have never even made bus fare or lost a large sum because this new hot sim is is a dud? I have often wondered how many of thease land barons work as a shill for Linden Labs .

Now before you hit the reply key and light that army surplus flame thrower laying next to your desk. Let's think about about how we got to this point. We have gotten here because people have bought into the big lie put forth by Linden Labs and the die hard fanatics, to enjoy Second Life you must own property. The fast and easy way to fight this new change is to stop buying property. Even for the most die hard Second Life fanatic a $1000 has to be alot of money. I am sure there will be some folks who will max the cards, sell thier body or even thier little sister to come up with the money. Just because they do it, does not mean you have to do it. Make a stand and say no more or Phillip Rosedale and company will figure out another way to squeeze your pocket book even more. Do not mis read this and think I am trying to tell anyone how to spend thier money. If you want to stop this, you must vote with your wallet. It is like the old saying about money talks and we know what walks. Time to show Linden Labs that we are not sheep just ripe for the shearing.

To Linden Labs who may be reading this. Your plan will raise the bar on land prices and personaly I think your smoking something if you think reasonable people are going to shell out that kind of real money.

rox

My take on this.

For the next couple months, thing'll be all kooky. There's quite a bit of availible land still, so overall, there won't be too much change in the land market. Sure, thing'll dip one week, peak the next and much virtual handwringing will appear in the forums with cries of both salvation and doom. Normal stuff.

I think the bad stuff won't start till the current mainland glut dries up, and it will dry up.

In the future, maybe 6 months down the line, the only people who will be able to buy significant portions of land will be the barons. Sure, you can try buying up all the 512's from the new folk, but more than likely you'll wind up with a hopscotch of plots.

This heavily consolidates the role of the land baron. The only people able to buy mainland land will be the barons who can drop $1000 or more in the auction. Then they can slice it up and sell it to you for whatever they want. The only consideration will be to sell it a few dollars lower than the other barons. No longer will they have to compete with the free-ish market of the auction. The price per m2 will be whatever the barons decide it will be. There will be no other choice will there?

Again, don't look at it now, think about 6 months down the line when the population has grown and the current market glut has dwindled. Someone will eventually buy what land is out there now as more people join.

It won't even matter what the purchase price of a sim will be. Let's say the auctions for mainland sims top off at $1500. Does this mean that they will slice it up, divide that $1500 with a reasonable markup and sell the land? It might, but it might not.

If in one month 4 new sims are sold, and SL is bursting at the seams because of growth, then the land buyers can, and will, sell it at whatever they want the price to be, WHY? Because there won't be ANY other choice! If you want land you will HAVE to buy from them.

Welcome back to land at $20 per m2 and up.

But don't forget, it'll be for YOUR OWN GOOD!

They'll still have to compete against people who are moving and reselling their own land. Only time will tell how it plays out. If people hated land barons during the last scarcity they'll hate them tenfold when it happens again. There's also nothing to stop a group of people from pooling their resources and buying a sim at auction themselves, then parcelling it according to what percentage each person paid.

Yay Jellin! I knew I was always hot..er..liked you for a reason. What a sexy brain on you girl! I agree completely, and said pretty much the same thing (in a clumsier post) earlier.

This is true, and a big hassle and opens up the door for alot of problems. Pool your RL $ with virtual folks, with one person named the owner originally and then slicing and dicing. Eeek..definitely possible probs there.

It will, eventually, completely put land control in the hands of the wealthier land barons. Being at their mercy is not a place I plan to find myself in. I was in the process of tiering down already, and will continue to do so. I'll save enough for a nice home, and just rebuild it time and again if I get the building itch too badly.

"In a nut shell they are playing you guys for saps. As you clamour over this land like it's a gold Mr Rosedale's bank account gets larger. Someday he will figure he has made enough money and purchase a real island."

I agree, Roxie, and have always seen it that way. BUT . . . if we are finding it fun and entertaining, and relatively fair, we don't mind paying for our pleasure, even though it's not "real," just like we wouldn't mind paying for any other entertainment.

And if some actually make a few rl bucks off it, so much the better.

But this is a delicate balance. If policy changes mean what happens is just that the rich get richer and the poor get poor, people really WILL feel like saps, and taken advantage of, and will leave. People will resent the rich getting richer, and leaving will make sure they don't add to the coffers of those people.

coco

That's exactly what I tell people who play golf. Then again, who am I to tell others how to value the things they enjoy? (but people who buy those plaid golf pants really are saps).

Just because people will sell land, doesnt' mean I'll buy it at the price they want.. The buyer ultimately determines the market...

I've yet to find another one of my hobbies that is not only enjoyable, but actually pays me to endulge...

I don't think of myself a sap -- More a soap manufacturer:

I pity all you fu-- SUCKERS! You suckers who don't have a Lifetime Account. Hahaha.

The first rule of Second Life is: You don't tell anyone that it's a scam.

The second rule of Second Life: YOU DON'T TELL ANYONE THAT IT'S A SCAM!

have you ever played secondlife? i highly recommend you actually try out the game before commenting on it.

Time again for some math I'm probably doing wrong but...
65536 meters / 512 = 128
US 1000 / 128 = US 7.81
US 4/L1000 is the same as US 1/L250
7.81 * 250 = L1952 break even point for 512 plot.

Luckily I am a lifer and I already have my 4096 in a very very nice residential sim.

Yeah, your right, I figured a 1024m plot size in error. You figured a proper break even point, but retail will be at a profit.