Hand Me Downs

I agree - it was short sighted to make this announcement without providing full details, especially when making a request like this.

I also concur with Catherine. There are a huge number of unsolved issues with the main grid due to lack of resources, and now they are taking on another grid, one that will require even more supervision than the current one. Without more information, it seems like a short sighted and frustrating turn of events.

Thats a great point Beryl, how do they regulate CC usage or do they tell mommy and daddy that they read the tos and agreed to the charges? Yikes. I would hope that they have set limits as to what little johnny can purchase over there. "WTF! 195.00 this month and next what the hell for johnny!" LOL

Cat

Where there is a will, there is a way!

Oh look, I own 3/4th the grid. Now, my fellow teenagers, I'll let you buy the land off me for L$2 a sqm! If you want the best land near the PG disco, you gotta buy from me!

Isnt the SIms Online the grid for minors already?


Edit- Really this is a great idea that will assure talented creations in the years to come. I know I will be sending you and some weapons and vehicles I made.

Will they be able to use animations? Because I will send my entire collection.

Yes, I agree Beryl. I bet also that aside from the initial sign up charge, only Linden money will be able to be used to purchase land and items. Doesn't stop the teens from going to GOM or IGE and using a credit card to buy lindens, but that is not an LL problem. Of course, they could always make a different currency, one that is not as valuable and that would keep them from getting money from IGE and GOM right away. But someone could just as easily start a similar system in time. So really there is no way around that. The Lindens making everything buyable only with in world money will still help a lot I think.

I like that how about this for the curency; "Linny bucks" no value anywhere but on the teeny bomper grid cannot be sold on the gom or ige either. I like that.

Cat

Well it does, unless there's a Zeppi Junior or IGE Junior on that grid on which to transfer your money.

Right! And of course that could happen in time. It just wouldn't be able to happen the day the server opened. And if the people running GOM and IGE are over 18, they would have to bring in someone younger to be the source in that world. Not impossible as I'm sure they could have younger players in other games. But let's say they did not have this in place. Then it would take time for one of the teen SLers to create this system, build trust, etc. and so on. Just wouldn't happen overnight is all I'm saying.

Yep - and when they turn 18 they're probably going to be coming into our world acting the way they acted in the KidGrid...

Some will be cool, some others will be <fill in the blank>.

And many wil be <fillin the blank>.


I wish LL would stay focused only on SL and continue developing this world!

My bet is LL will not use L$.

In most US states contracts with minors are not enforceable.

They could create KG$.


heheh

Hey - I'm glad to see so much interest. I would like to let Robin answer most of the questions on the how and why of the teen grid at her town hall.

For answers on the content submissions:

Hank, Yes!
Daemioth, Unscripted weapons are OK too.
Beau, cool - animations are good too (although we don't need the "adult poses" listed in your sig)

ben

Hey - I'm glad to see so much interest. I would like to let Robin answer most of the questions on the how and why of the teen grid at her town hall.

For answers on the content submissions:

Hank, Yes!
Daemioth, Unscripted weapons are OK too.
Beau, cool - animations are good too (although we don't need the "adult poses" listed in your sig)

ben

On the question of parents being surprised by a sudden $195 tier fee... I'm betting that the 'My Account' page will have a different password from the login password for teens, and so whoever the credit card holder is (mom or dad) will be the one to log in and approve tiering up if/when that occurs.

On the question of providing learning content - couldn't have come at a better time for me. I was planning on taking all my older, "made when I had less skills" items out of my vendors today and restocking with some newer items. Guess where those old items will be going

Furiture and boxed houses heading for Content Linden....

I have a ton of used diapers I don't need anymore.

Will objects we donate into the kidgrid still bear our creator tags? Or will this information be erased?

Edit: Oh, and will they have access to our script library? Some useful goodies in there, but no sense in donating them if they'll have access

Heh, I'm just waiting for find out who the "Francis Chung Jr." of the younger grid is. Ya know, I have an idea. You remember that classic movie, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? And you remember that inventive dude named Willy Wonka? Well, you're like Willy Wonka, except you're cuter and like to shiv people (a seeming contradiction, but oh well...). You should hold a contest where you invite several promising young scripters to your magic wonderland and then put them through rigorous amounts of tests -- yes, start with the flamethrower dodging -- and then give one the coveted "Francis Chung Jr." award.

Alternatively, you could run it in a format not unlike Donald Trump's The Apprentice. Instead of "You're fired!" though, you could do your doll-like giggle and simply use your GREEFER TOOLS to do away with the failed candidates. After forcing them to dance with the AFK Override headcans so they'll look merry getting the boot.

Wait:

1) that's too cruel
2) uh... i just remembered that peeps aren't supposed to cross over. that'd like, blow up the world or something. :|

Ok, I'm sure I'm missing some critical (and obvious) info here, but here are my thoughts on this hand-me-down stuff.

Why is Linden Lab asking for hand-me-downs rather than offering to buy user creations for L$ or US$ like the rest of Second Life's population does?

Why is it that I have to pay a RL subscription fee to use Second Life, and am charged RL money for fake land, but Linden Lab wants me to give (rather than sell) my creations to fuel a new business venture?

I suppose it's all about the market. If LL can get items for free, why would they pay for them...

To me (as a RL freelancer), this hand-me-down scenario is roughly comparable to a publishing company asking for submissions for a new book. The book will be sold in stores, but the submitters will not be paid. Instead, the publisher will pocket the profits resulting in large part from the quality of the content in the book. The submitters will be credited, but have no way of knowing if their work was appreciated by the readers of the book, and no way to sell their work to readers of the book.

It's an interesting situation. What's the value proposition for content creators here? A warm, fuzzy feeling? I can't take a warm, fuzzy feeling to the bank... which is a shame, because I have credit card bills to pay

My comments and questions are not intended to be malicious-- I'm not demanding answers, just sort of thinking out loud for the purposes of discussion.

[edited for grammar]

Zero an importnt thing to note is that the Lindens will not be "selling" any of these items. They will be free to copy , probably living in a Bazaar of somesort like in Stillman on our grid. So your scenario is not quite correct.

I do have a question for Ben though, I have several things I would like to offer up, but I was thinking about making more content for the SL Kiddy Grid. Would there be anyway to join up and put things out for free? Or will we always need to pass things through Content Linden?

Right, I see what you mean, but I hadn't imagined that the items will be sold-- the product here is Second Life. Let's assume that teens will have to pay subscription fees just like adults. In this case, Linden Lab is selling a product (Second Life subcriptions) based in part on the strength of unpaid user contributions. I guess it's entirely appropriate that a real-world capitalist business running a virtual world based on a capitalist economy intends on making money with as little overhead as possible--i.e. by soliciting free content from its users. The socialist in me wonders why a company that makes its own play-money can't "buy" user creations with it like its user base does. Again, I don't see any incentive here for content developers.

Ok, here's a situation to imagine (trying to restate my issues more simply here):

Linden Lab announces an upcoming private Teen grid.
The grid will basically be empty, because most objects are created by users.
Teens arriving in an empty world will not buy a subscription to Second Life.
Linden Lab needs to fill the grid with interesting objects to attract subscribers.
Linden Lab solicits unpaid content from its adult customers.
No content creators submit content.
The grid is largely empty.
Few teens subscribe to Second Life Teen Edition as a result.
The teen grid fails.

Teen grid + content = Real-world profit for Linden Lab.
Teen grid - content = Failed venture, wasted money for Linden Lab.

I am a professional content creator in RL, so the idea of giving away work for free so that a company can profit strikes me as goofy. I only do charitable work for non-profit organizations. The obvious retort here is "then don't submit your content." This is a fair response. But I think that in giving away content for free to a for-profit company, creators are unecessarily short-changing themselves. Without donations, Linden Lab would be forced to pay for content like any other business. We pay Linden Lab for services, why shouldn't Linden Lab pay us for services?

Disclaimer: I am not heavily-invested in the commentary above. I'm "just thinking out loud." I don't know many details about this teen grid, so I'm simply speculating about some issues that came to mind when reading the announcements.

Higbee: I don't have info for you on cross grid inventory - if it was to happen, it would not be "easy" so for now, just send stuff to Content.

Zero: You raise a good point. We do like to see people rewarded for creating good content for Second Life. The problem exists on what is a fair method for reward - In the past, we have held contensts to submit content for new resident inventory, where we offer fairly substantial rewards. Historically, we only get a handful of entries when we do this. So we decided to call for whatever people want to give for free, and I have 70 submissions so far. I guess sometimes the pull of a strong community (even seperated) outwieghs the desire for the benjamins.

ben

I agree with you Zero. I personally do not believe we should be giving this content for free. The Lindens created the first content for Second Life... they should do the same for the teen grid.

Yeah. I can only imagine the headaches What you've done is ask "who will give us stuff for free?" which is a fair question, and if unanswered would necessitate some sort of payment system. I don't think it would be all that hard--residents already price their creations, and all Linden has to do is go shopping like everyone else It just so happens that currently you have a selection of free goods, which is a pretty good price, and I can't fault you in the least for accepting donations. I guess the ultimate question is "will you get enough quality material for free in order to attract and retain teenage subscribers?"

Ah, Ben... I believe Fran was still wondering about the below:


Will objects we donate into the kidgrid still bear our creator tags? Or will this information be erased?

Edit: Oh, and will they have access to our script library? Some useful goodies in there, but no sense in donating them if they'll have access


Can you please answer these queries? I'm wondering about them myself. Thanks

They probably will get fine items donated, the real problem for content creators is the flooding of the market. If some rich company (like Walmart) moves in and sells stuff so cheap, even at a loss, to get rid of competition, the small stores won't survive.

What's my point? hee hee, well none really, it's growing pains. At this point in cyber history, content creators are going to have one heck of a rollercoaster ride, I think. But on the other hand, I sure hope some day, that CC's will have real honest and plausible careers in cyberspace. It's really incredibly exciting.

Can’t blame LL for calling for donations, I got an elevator and maybe some clothes to donate?? Or maybe I’ll try to make some better tutorials on my website. The quandary is, do you want these cyber worlds to thrive? Or protect the entrepreneur? I want to do both, but it’s so early in the game, my support tends to go toward helping the infrastructure become solid….. even though it’ll be our #1 enemy one day (big brother corporation, hee hee, sorry Lindens) No matter how good their intentions are. But without the pioneers, that is users, investors, managers, programmers, etc… getting the thing started, there is no future, eh?

I have no time anymore, and am hardly ever on SL, but maintain some plots of land as my “homes” and happily pay into the system mostly as my version of “philanthropy” to the future. It’s what I try to do with the little bit of cash I can steel from our dinner plates. So yes, I agree with you, but yes, I’m all for how LL is doing things, oh, and I can’t wait to give my kids an account!!! Hope they want one???

Ingie