Cindy Sheehan lies and deception!

The basic point that it took 783 days to do what is consider a very *basic* token of respect to the dead. I've dealt with that job before, it's not hard or time consuming to do. She just didn't do it.



You're making a lot of assumptions in this, so I'm not going to bother trying to argue your imagined course of events - I can't argue with phantoms.



783 days preaching her message in her sons name because it carries more weight, while she failed to do even the most basic sort of tending to the affairs of his passing. That's how it looks to me, and a lot of other people.

I have different reasons than Cindy Sheehan. See --Uhm--Cindy Sheehan and I are different people --and I've never had a child.

The Founding Fathers, Martin Luther King, the Dalai Lama, and even your relatives, Finning, proved to be supportive of what they are being memorialized for by their actions.

The question becomes, did Cindy Sheehan's son believe the war in Iraq to be immoral? He was a soldier, and he chose that path in his life. From what little we can gether of his opinions, it would seem to me that he'd be supportive of the war, and not against it.

We do not bring up King's memory in favor of bigotry, or the Dalai Lama's memory in the name of fascism. Before we bring up Cindy Sheehan's son in protest of the war, we really should find out what his opinion was on the matter. Before we 'memorailize' the dead, we should respect them.

Not everyone feels that "pretty much every war is unjust", so I think you're complaint kinda derails before it begins.

As for the rest - I don't think anyone out there isn't sympathetic to her loss (Well, ok, I won't speak for the Westborroites). That's not the point, on either side. Sympathy is a red herring in this arguement.

I think her actions are a disgrace to her son, as I feel that all of those who use death to make political actions are disgracing the dead. Your effecitvely saying "If you can't win them with rational thought, we'll make them sympathetic for no other reason that feeling bad for her" that doesn't make a strong base for your platform, because human emotions change over time.

How dare you. We all grieve in our own ways. How it looks to you is absolutely of no matter. Ms. Sheehan can mourn the death of her son any damned way she wishes.

I despise your sanctimony.

Go ahead. We all have our own ways and opinions, like you say - and I despise what she is doing.

I don't think you have the foggiest notion what she's doing.

I have as much notion as anyone else who isn't her.

its funny you mention the WBC, they are doing the same thing as Cindy. Using death to make political/religious points. All I hear is outcry about them, but none about Cindy. I guess when its a point you agree with, you will "overlook" the "means to the end".

So, your idea of what is a "basic token of respect to the dead" is a $1500 chunk of stone.
Her idea is living her life in the memory of her son and campaigning constantly for the return of the values he enlisted, worked, and died for.
AND she got a headstone.
Hm.


Like the assumption that the end-all-be-all token of respect, and the most important matter all in all, is dropping $1500 on a rock? I have a $1500 wedding ring here - marry me, keep the ring, and never complain when I sleep around, drink, lose my job, tear your hair out in your sleep and pour shampoo into your eyes - and when you do complain, I'm just going to point out the fact that you've got a prompt $1500 rock, okay?



Her sons' passing was tidily taken care of by the State Department. They put the gun in his hands, arranged the unjustified military-action-turned-war, put his body in a bag and box, flew it home, interred it, and even provided the money for the headstone. She didn't have to lift a single finger to arrange the affairs of his passing, /that's the gorram point/. Her message /is/ her son's message. He swore:

"I, Casey Sheehan, do solemly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Support and Defend the Constitution. All Enemies, Foreign or Domestic. True Faith and Allegiance to the Same.

When the gorram /President/ is the one who's doing the shredding, you can't exactly obey his orders, eh? Besides which she's a free person, not enlisted.

Actually, I decry both. Your point?

It's always the same deal with conservatives. They don't like your politics, so they'll attack you on moral grounds. This naturally hits closer to home and you get on the defensive, so it looks like your politics are on the defensive. You lose, and the cunning conservative laughs all the way to the bank.

The WBC isn't doing the same thing she's doing. THEY preach hate, death, torture, killing. This is not what she is doing.

finning you have overstepped AGAIN. There is a way around going its called conscientious objector status. Did he file for that? Then we can safely say he was willing to go.

After 700+ days, when it was publicly outed that no headstone existed.

Sorry, not buying it.



Do you frequently confuse the phrase "basic" and "end all be all"?




The political point is completely beside the point I'm arguing here, actually.

Since I'm not arguing the politics to *begin* with, this is sorta pointless. I'm not attacking morality instead of politics, because the politics dont concern me.

don't worry, I already stated this isn't a partisan thing to me, so whose attacking who?

ok whats the WBC? I tried googleing it and all I get is some shitty boyband..

Westboro Baptist Church, the loony toones that are saying the deaths in Iraq are God's punishment for our treatment of Homosexuals.

Anyone who thinks a $1500 rock is more important than the way someone lives their lives and vows, or that a delay in getting that rock can impeach someone's message of peace in favour of a dogma of war, can bite my big toe for an immoral unthinking materialist sheep. I truly have no /conception/ of what it's like to value a /headstone/ over the important part: That our country is going to hell in a handbasket and people are dying for it.

I don't want a gorram headstone. The headstone is /irrelevant/. my life and legacy isn't doing to be a chunk of rock that needs mowing around. It will be how many people live, in peace and love and light and friendship - not how many people we put into the ground and the rocks we put over them.

No she's not.

His death is the motivation for her activism. She doesn't claim the war is wrong because her son died in it. She claims it is wrong because the reasons given for the invasion were untrue. She also claims that the President knew they were untrue. Argue that, not whether she can or cannot demonstrate against the war. The very idea that she can't protest because she lost her son is ridiculous.

Your argument is absurd. When the President cites 9/11 as the motivation for the war on terror, why don't we hear you saying "He's using their deaths to further a political point"? When a politician cites the murder rate in a city as a reason to increase the police force, nobody claims he's "using" the deaths of people to further a political point. The death of Ms. Sheehan's son was the catalyst that caused her to protest. It is the personal tragedy that caused forced her to face the war. Her argument isn't that the war is wrong because her son died in it. Her son's death has nothing to do with why she believes the war is wrong. It's her motivation, not her argument.

who gives a shit if you don't buy it? Who the fuck are you to tell a mother how she grieves the loss of her child?

oh...dear....god...

its safe to say they are insane.. does yer one Cindy say god is with me god is this god is that? people so instantly loose credibility when they start that shit...

I never said not to protest, so there goes that. I said they way she is using her son's death to gain attention is wrong.