I don't understand this Gorean thing.

It's not the groveling in the dirt and the slavey part I don't understand but the rules as stated in the Official Handbook. They state there has to be mutual respect and all sorts of agreements must be made. Since when do slaves get respect? If I signed up to be a slave the only respect I would expect is a kick in the head.

Is this Gorean thing some attempt to make S/M more palatable to the masses? If so it is pretty lame.

Slaves just get cuter outfits skimpy I Dream of Genie silks, rather than dirty rags or leather S&M gear

*wonders when and why you were reading the handbook*

No, I see Gor as being more like what happens when you get the same sort of mind that memorizes every Star Trek episode, valiantly crusades for "HAN SHOT FIRST", and pedantically corrects your smallest error in a given subject... and introduce them to the whole D/s subject.

Why would anybody deign to be so absolutely submissive in the first place?

Catholicism?

Only half joking; in my life I've seen much personal damage wrought by externally inflicted guilt. Just so this doesn't turn into a religious war, they certainly don't have a monopoly on guilt, but in my personal experience, those that I know who have the worst trouble with it as adults claim to have gotten it in church as children.

this may explain it ...


http://www.geocities.com/gorean_community/gorone.html

That depends on what kind of respect you're talking of. In Dom/Sub situations it isn't really in good form to go about 'disrespecting' slaves. In a way, those slaves are extensions of the 'master/mistress' and any disrespect or abuse the slave (that is unwarranted) receives other than it's direct owner, is an act of disrespect or insult on it's master/mistress.

Besides in gor, as much as slaves are properties of their masters/mistress, they do enjoy a certain degree of protection (as do a lot of D/S).

As for why people would want to be submissive, well it's a freedom thing. Some people feel more free when they submit to other people, letting other people decide and control and master them. I know it sounds contradictory but think of it this way, the greatest freedom these people experience is not being responsible for anything, not for themselves not for others. it's their masters who take on the responsibility for them. That's one of the bigger appeals of Dom/Sub relations.

S/M doesn't have anything to do with Gor.

Hadn't had enough of trolling today have we?

I am really wondering where all the Priest-Kings are in SL Gor. (SLorean?)

Gozer the Traveler... he will come in one of the pre-chosen forms.

During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg!

Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor!

Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!

There are a lot of weird and dumb people in the world, especially on the internet.

I suppose my own hangup comes from the fact that I've had occasion to study actual slavery that happens right now in the real world. Of course, I haven't taken leave of my senses - I fully realize that Gor ain't the same thing... but the word "slave" outside of the context of configuring computer hard drives still sends little tendrils of anger down my rugged individualist soul.

An equivilent would be violent video games with no context for it - something like "Manhunt". I don't mind violence in the proper scenario - If ever you find yourself on Mars when someone opens a portal to Hell, it is unlikely anyone would object to the shotgunning of demons. Except maybe the demons. But just blowing things away without even a thin, action-movie justification turns me off.

I bring this up because, whether this thread was a troll or not, I think it can be valuable to analyze one's biases.

Yes, have some.

~What is a Gorean slave girl?~
A Gorean slave girl in the books had no choices from birth.
She was born into slavery and kept or sold depending on the whim of her owner.
A Gorean slave girl on Earth (on-line or off-line) has a conscious choice.
Although her belly tells her she is slave and she aches to serve and please,
she CAN make the choice not to allow herself into slavery. Should she chose to follow her natural instincts,
her belly will tell her which collar to beg.....and once the Free places Their steel on her,
she has no more choices - she obeys Them totally or she fails being what she is.

In either case, (on Gor or on Earth) the slave girl's sole purpose is to please the Free
and her Owner in particular. In either case,
she is acutely aware of the Natural Order and that her place is at the feet of the Free.
She has a belly-burning need to please that goes way beyond desire. It consumes her mind,
body, heart and soul and she is helpless to do anything but respond to it.
A slave girl does not have to be taught her purpose...she feels in her belly the ache to serve and to please.
We hear that a hundred times a week in online Gor... but it is, quite simply, the truth of it.
Her tummy physically pulls in her, cramps and contracts with ache and need to serve and be found pleasing.
Her heart rejoices each time she is told she has pleased a Free Person
and aches when she has been found not so pleasing. Her Owner becomes the focus of her life....
she awakes from sleep in the morning thinking of her Owner...spends her day wanting her Owner,
thoughts of her Owner and being with her Owner consume her...
deep joy and excitement overtake her when she is with her Owner...
she drifts to sleep at night with thoughts of her Owner, awaking,
often in the night with the fever and ache for her Owner....
then, morning comes and she wakes to thoughts of her Owner again.....
She feels her slavery to her Owner all the time, no matter what she is doing or who she is with.
When she is not with her Owner, she yearns to return to her Owner as quickly as possible.

She gives herself to her Owner totally... surrendering herself to her Owner and her Owners will,
holding nothing back. She aches for her Owners teaching and her Owners guidance in order that she can learn
to be a slave most pleasing to her Owner. Kneeling at her Owners feet,
listening to her Owners instructions absolutely overwhelm her with happiness
as she feels she can take one more step to being what she so desperately needs to be:
a slave that pleases her Owner.
She knows that she must act in a manner that would bring her Owner pride
and happiness in her Owners possession. She wants to be worthy for her Owner.
She is obligated to make her Owner aware of her needs, desires, thoughts and questions.
her Owner has no responsibility to react to these things should her Owner chose not to
but her Owner must be told everything.... for how else can her Owner make decisions for her.

she knows that if she forgets her place or is found displeasing by her Owner that her Owner will punish her.
she knows that her place at her Owners feet is tentative at best....
that she had better behave or her Owner will send her away.
her Owner is strong enough to punish her or toss her aside if
she does something her Owner finds unacceptable. her Owner may care for her, even deeply..
her Owner might even love her in her Owners way...
but that will never stop her Owner from discarding her if she displeases her Owner.
It will always be her Owners choice to decide if she is worth punishment to be taught a lesson or not.
If not, out she goes!!! There may or may not be love for the Owner..
but an on-line slave girl surely saw in the Owner something that drew her to her Owner, specifically..
something that made her beg her Owners collar and not that of another...
and it is a natural evolution of the slave girl's heart (although not always) from devotion, adoration,
trust, commitment, obedience... to fall in love with the Owner who owns her, disciplines her, cares for her.

In short *smiles as she looks above and realizes there is nothing short about her ramblings here*.....
The Gorean Slave Girl is a piece of property. Owned by a Free person who can do with it as He/She wishes.
The slave must obey immediately and without hesitation or question.
The property is strictly held for the pleasure of it's Owner and if it's Owner finds no pleasure in it,
then it will be thrown out. However, if the slave IS found pleasing, then there are no boundries to the joy,
gratification and delight that both Owner and slave can experience with each other.

hope this clears up some of the confusion

Yes, and it is a sobering thought that we ourselves might be thought weird and dumb by others who do not share our perspectives.

That's a rather sanitised history though - reading it one might be confused as to why all of these groups thought the books were worth opposing. I don't see the problem with stating that one of the central points is master-slave relationships and a particular prescriptive attitude to gender roles. I read some of the Gor books when I was younger; they struck me as slightly pervy hack fantasy to be honest.

Not my bag as such but I don't see that it's a problem if the mythology attracts people - human beings have all sorts of fantasies, read some Nancy Friday. I wouldn't want anyone casting aspersions on my preferences. I'd be disturbed if somebody tried to set up a real-world Gorean community but that's about it.

Wat a weyrd and dumm thing too say.

I don't know about communities, but there are certainly people who "live the lifestyle" in meatspace, too.

One would hope that they weren't completely living the lifestyle, or if they were that the police were involved. Mind you, I think that the danger of men riding off on tarns and bringing back slavegirl captives is probably quite low.

Nice post Toy. I’ll add my .02.

Some people do attempt to recreate Gor online as well as in RL but it will ultimately fall short because you have to remember that every party is a willing participant, each taking a role and satisfying needs deep inside.

True slavery is simply wrong and unacceptable but I have no issue is a "Gorean slave" willingly chooses the life online or in RL because they ultimately can choose to leave the lifestyle at any time.

As for why someone would do it, not everyone is cut out for being a Gorean slave. It is not something easily understood by someone out of the lifestyle. A Gorean slave desires above all to serve and be pleasing to her Master. She completely gives all of the control willingly and happily to her Master trusting him completely to look after her.

To some people this gift of control can be freeing and intoxicating allowing the slave to be stripped of the responsibility that comes from having control. Gor is partially based on the premise that to their core, women desire to submit to men and in doing so they are free to be fully feminine. The common misperception is that it is all about the sex when in fact it has little to do with sex if the Master and slave truly understand their roles. It has to do with control, trust and love.

Again, that is a very short explanation but I want to make it clear that many people are not suited for the lifestyle which is ok just as much as it is ok if those suited for it willingly choose to do it.

Hope this helps a lil.

The choice is made, the traveller has come...

My theory is that, though there are many reasons for it (such as role play), a large factor in its allure is the blurring of sex roles in modern life. Liberating though that blurring is, it can also be complicated and confusing to many. Things are a lot simpler when you know who is supposed to do what. Half of marriage irl is deciding who is supposed to do what!

Then there's the sexual thrill of submitting to another. (Something people can take turns at.)

My experience with the Gor people is that they are ALL about respect, polite almost to a fault. I also like it that you can be friends with Gor people without any pressure whatsoever to join their lifestyle, and they respect those who aren't in it, too.

It's not my cup of tea, that's for sure. But I'm just saying (a) I think it helps define sex roles (whether male or female dominant) and (b) they do have that hallmark of respect and politeness, at least in my experience.

coco

Gor has a highly developed code of laws and customs, of which I've made some study. The emphasis on slavery is often misplaced, probably because of the sexual connotations and the unfortunate visibility of scantily clad slave girls. However, in the Gorean fiction-space, Free Women were far more numerous that slaves, and in the Gorean SL spaces that I've visited to learn of their customs, Free Women were numerous and often outnumbered the slaves. They also have an important role in the Gorean society, although they cannot bear arms as a warrior (a position also held by the US Government for its military forces until not too many years ago).

From what I'm learning about Gorean culture, Free Women and many slaves gain more respect and courtesy than women often do in SL outside of Gor. Sexual harassment of a Free Woman in Gor is likely to earn the harasser "impalement" (banning). This, combined with the Free Woman's clothing, which is concealing (often including a veil) when outside, is much like that of a Roman Catholic nun or a conservative Moslem woman. Sexual harassment of a "restricted" slave may earn the harasser hostile attention from her owner/protector, which may result in banishment as well.

The status of women in Gorean culture is controversial, but it would be a mistake to think that all (or even most) are slaves. It would also be culturally judgmental to decide that the status of Free Women or slave women is unacceptable, particularly in light of the fact that in SL, all avatars who portray males or females are volunteers with the power to leave at any time, and the power to choose to portray Free persons or slaves.