Is our education system working?

First off, this is NOT a personal attack against this person. I am upset about our education system.

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I read this post a bit ago and all I could do was sit there with my mouth hanging open. I just can't believe that a teen in the United States could be this illiterate. Obviously this person comes from a middle class family as they can afford a computer, high speed Internet access and had the extra cash to buy some extra lindens. I'm not saying that I expect everyone who posts here to be an English major, but come on!

What does it say about our country when we can spend $900 + billion dollars to “bring democracy” to another country, but we cut the funding to educate our own children to do it? Basic literacy is critical in today's job market. Would you hire a person who doesn't even know basic spelling and punctuation? What kind of job would someone like this be able to get after “graduation”.

Who's fault is this? Is it the fault of the child, or ours? Isn't it our responsibility to educate our children? How many of us would have stayed in school and studied hard if we hadn't been made to do so by our elders?

Again, I don't want this thread to degrade to just flaming this poor kid, he is just a symptom of a larger problem. We should be focusing on the problems with the education system as a whole.

Public schools only care about passing kids, not failing.

Briana Dawson

Having raised two children through a public school system, I have certainly seen my share of serious issues and had my share of battles with teachers and officials. In my area, the public school system has it's good points and it's bad.

However, whatever your particular school system is like, the final responsibility lies with the parents. If your child can not properly spell even the words lied, because, and wanted (liyed, becus, wonted ) by the age of 13 (legal age for the teen grid) then it's your fault. You let him down.

Absolutely the school systems in many areas are shameful and that needs to be remedied. But if your child manages to make his way through it, graduates, and leaves your home without the necessary education to provide his own way... the real shame is your own.

I'm not sure what this has to do with "our" education system.

There could be any number of reasons for a child's poor spelling and grammar. I also noticed issues with his logic, problem solving and social interaction.

You are eager to state the amount our nation has spent on the war effort over the last four years, but you seem to think that our nation has CUT funding to schools..this is false. Additionally, there is no correlation between increased spending and increased competence.

Try blaming parents first. Then blame Congress for not passing legislation that allows for school vouchers. But you won't because it's easier to blame the nebulous government, divert the argument (war in iraq), and act shocked and angry by all of it.

This might be a major part of the problem right here. If we, as parents don't care, why should our kids? The schools can only do so much, and have less and less money to do it with.

The question is, how do we get parents to care?

"Then blame Congress for not passing legislation that allows for school vouchers."

School vouchers are the magic beans that'll fix the school system in your country?

Musuko.

I blame it on the education system, but also on IM, text messaging, and other modern communications where abbreviations and 'leet speak' are the norm. They are training the kids to think that communicating in that way is okay.

-Ghoti

I don't want government money going to religious schools in any fashion. Let mythology support itself. Vouchers for private school? NO. The PUBLIC school system is available if you can't afford private school. the PUBLIC school system is what the government runs, at no cost to you other than taxes!


No vouchers..if you want to send your kid to provate school, pay for it yourself.

I agree with holding parents responsible. Parents really should take an actual interest in educating their children. My mother read to me and my brothers when we were little, and by the time we started kindergarten, we were above average readers.

School vouchers are a scam. Vouchers do not guarantee admission into private school. Vouchers do not pay the full cost of tuition. If you can't make up the difference, too bad. Your kid has to make do with public school. The only reason why some push vouchers is that it is a backdoor subsidy for religious schools. The only thing vouchers do accomplish is diverting public funds away from public schools.

You are right Briana, I do care about passing kids. I work hard at it as well. With each student they are encouraged to pass. They are provided with a teacher that gives them 100%. Each lesson is designed with their education in mind, so that they can learn, succeed, and pass my class. All the benchmarks, all the standards, and everything our school requires of me..I pass on to the students. It's up to me to provide them with the opportunity, but I will say, it's up to them to take responsibility of their education as well. I don't care if a student is poor or rich, disabled, dyslexic, ADD, or one that doesn't take any medication. ALL students can learn if they want to and as a public educator in my class they will. Do they all get As? Of course not. Do some fail? Of course they do. The bell curve hasn't changed that much since we were in public school. Each day tho, I reach a student! Each day they learn to spell "a lot" as two words. Each day come hell or high water they know I mean business and that their education is the most important thing in that room.

For all of you out there that want to condemn the public education system, fine. Come in and help! Teach your child to care! Teach your child why they need to be educated. As for the teen that started this thread, you had an opportunity to teach him without embarrassment. What did most of you do? Just that. You had the opportunity to talk to him. to share with him what his writing should look like without condemning him. When you find a child that needs to be taught... use that opportunity to have that "teachable moment" and teach him. Don't bite his head off so that he thinks all adults are going to attack him. We are here to teach, every one of us. Please do it in a manner that best helps the child.


Pass or fail in my class by each student learns that they are responsible for their actions. They are responsible for their education and that with any effort at all they can pass my class. With enthusiasm and determination, they even learn how to read, write, and do arithmetic. That is the basis for the public school I teach at. I will never sit still and tolerate anyone calling us failures!

Shit in, shit out is my opinion.

Most folks coming into the public school system simply don't care. Their parents, also not caring, didn't raise them with the proper respect learning/education should have; not teaching them ABCs, not helping them learn/enjoy reading, not explaining to them how stuff around them works, and so on. If they're taken from that environment and plopped into another system that also doesn't really care (they're just a numbered pupil on a spreadsheet in some bean counter's computer), they're not going to extract much out of it.

Proper education starts at home, and at a very young age. I grew up with a gigantic library to sift through; I learned to read via Mad Magazine and Calvin and Hobbes with the help of my encouraging parents (Dad? What's "superfluous" mean?), who also took the time to explain to me how stuff worked as best they could.

I became overjoyed at reading, and going to the library every other week to pick more books to read. I used to read history textbooks just for fun.

My friend down the road, though, his parents didn't really teach to him the importance of learning and the joys of reading; as such he dropped out of high school by Grade 10. I think he sells bicycles now and smokes a lot of weed.

Yeah, I was a bookworm; what the bullies would call a "geek" or a "nerd" or whatever. But I also managed to squeeze a huge amount of learning out of a "broken" public education system, while the bullies stumbled through elementary, middle, and high school.

Did they pass? Certainly; the GPA needed to fail my local school is a staggering 0.33. Yes, that's a D- average. But it's biting them in the ass now; not being able to balance a checkbook, or scratching their heads over their fine-print laden credit card statements because of the big words takes its toll in the 21st century. I blame their parents.

It's the parents' responsibility to evoke a sense of wonder and enjoyment out of the mere act of learning and acquiring knowledge; otherwise there's nothing a school can do for the child.

I'm a public school teacher, and though I see lots of problems with public schools I also see that a lot of the complaints about them don't reflect or consider reality.
First of all, how do we know whether this person is a public school student or not?
Second, how do we know that this person was actually trying to spell correctly?
Third, regarding the issue of public schools versus private schools (and vouchers) - someone brought up a point about funding religious education. I often wonder how the proponents of vouchers would feel when Muslim families started sending their children to Islamic schools using public funds. Also, many of the reasons private schools look better than public schools have to do with parent involvement, tighter rules that can NOT be put in place in public schools, and a focus on the whole child that is too often missing from public schools, and often because so many interest groups want to get a say at what will (and won't) happen in those schools!
Fourth, the nature of instruction regarding spelling (since that's the main issue here) has changed quite a bit. Not just the whole word versus phonics debate, but also developmental spelling analysis and probably most of all (unrelated to schools) the spellcheck feature on word processors (but not, sadly for this child, on internet browsers!). As someone mentioned, the models of writing that students see are typically either run through a spell-checker or are in the kind of shorthand that's used in IMs and notes, and often in Second Life chats.
Interesting discussion.

If you don't like vouchers then that is ok too.

Gxeremino,Lordfly and milady made very thoughful and coherent responses. Thanks for your input.

I have no desire to impugn or insult good teachers or good schools, but I believe that the less the government is invloved in our education the better we are. I can't really figure out why we think GOVERNMENT is the best authority to determine the educational needs of our children?

Please, enlighten me about why you think our governent is so capable of educating kids but so bad at everything else!

I think the reason you all like the government influence on education is exactly for the same reasons you argue that you don't want private influence! You think Muslims in America are going to teach theire kids what??? Christians will teach their kids what?? Governement will teach their kids what??

Really lame arguments. I'm not opposed to reasonable arguments against vouchers, but so far all I've heard is the same old worn out fear mongering about religion and money.

Perhaps you are right about less government, the main problem to address is money. The U.S. Government funds public education and the private sector can't replace it on their own. School millages are being defeated left and right when it comes to pumping new monies into the school system. If the Gov't pulls out, who will pick up the tab?

You mean "who will pick up the tab in economically challenged areas?" Right?

The nice thing about vouchers is that government still provides the funds, but now there is the possibility for more competition in the educational marketplace.

How does anyone feel about competition in the school industry?

milady!

I forgot..I meant to say "Great Post" above. Your statement on the "teachable moment" is fantastic. It really made me stop and think about how much better I could be, and how much more I could help others if I was more sensitived to "teaching moments"

Thanks! I have a feeling that I'll be seeing "teachable moments" about 100 times a day from here on.

Just to be clear, I don't mean that in an arrogant way, but in the humblest way possible.

Just so we're clear, what kind of competition do you mean?

Currently there is already competition for a variety of factors in teaching. Different salaries in different areas. Differing times to tenure. Differing class sizes and grade levels. A wide array of benefits, or not. There's also differing moral and ethical values proscribed in differing areas.

Or were you talking about which schools kids can go to? I would think that saying that public schools do not already compete with private ones would be somewhat lunatic.

Please explain.

YES!! Totally agree there.

Let me add my 2 cents also:

It's not only the fault of education systems, government, parents, etc. You have to put some of the blame on the student.

I can think of 2 examples of Public School education go awry- and it's funny!! Yet sad.

#1: We're in a video store where my fiance's friend works. A guy & a girl come in. I'm quietly told they were the biggest stoners in the high school & have graduated. These two look around, come up & ask the girl at the counter for "Requeem of a Dream". Took us a bit, but we got it- REQUIEM FOR A DREAM!!!

#2: a waitress at work, who had graduated from HS a year ago, was going to dump a bucket of grease down the sink. I stopped her. She asks why. I explain that the grease will clog the drain when it congeals. She says "Whats that mean?" I said Solidify. She says "So whats that mean?" I was just... man, there are no words to describe what I felt!!

Hmmm, now I'm curious. I already did the 'Who is this?" test at work with famous people, where I posted pics of people like Gandhi, Winston Churchhill, Mother Terressa, etc, and no one under a certain age knew who it was. Now I'm thinking of trying a grammar test.

Have you ever seen the segments on The Tonight Show in which Jay Leno asks people on the street basic questions about history and current events? It makes me CRINGE to see people on there mix up Jefferson and Lincoln, et al.

The worst is when they simply throw their hands in the air and say, "I don't know", while giggling.

This is a failure on all parts. Parents need to take a real interest early on, teachers need to not give in and pass kids who shouldn't be passing, and the government needs to PAY THE TEACHERS adequately.

For Pete's sake, a roofer or a Subway sandwich shop manager makes more money at entry level, and that is just pathetic. PRIORITIES!

Excellent topic and some really good, food-for-thought responses.

Feeling around to articulate this, but has anyone else noticed that in American popular culture, education is not respected unless it's about the latest fashion trend or music buzz?

YEP!

I work with a lot of high schoolers & have had several gasp in amazement when I'd tell them about how the nuns would have no problem with using a paddle on you, or a crack on the knuckles, if you stepped out of line or misbehaved. Most of their responses were "I'd hit them back" or my favorite "My parents said if they ever did that then I could hit them back". Wow!! Nice values people teach their kids! I wonder if they're told its ok to shoot a cop if a cop pulls them over??

And dont even get me started on literacy!!!

Please respect the dead and spell their names correctly next time.

Do soldiers really need good spelling?

This says it all.


Suffrage petition

First, that kid's on his way to college. That's about the standard literacy and compositional style of an incoming "C" freshman at a public university. That's not a rhetorical statement - that's based on personal and professional experience.

Second, education departments across the U.S. teach standardized methods these days, and care very little about content, quality, or innovation. Frankly, they're turning out public school teachers who are mediocre at best when it comes to teaching content. In content-oriented courses such as mathematics, chemistry, history, literature, etc., education students are almost always among the lowest-achieving cohorts. That's not a rhetorical statement, either - it's based on personal and professional experience, and also myriads of studies done by professional organizations in-field (which is to say, outside of the education field itself).

Third, right now, in thousands of public schools across the U.S. millions of students are idling away their time getting ready for the standardized tests that determine the futures of their schools and their teachers. During this period - several weeks at least, really - they learn very little of value beyond how to take the tests. The tests themselves are problematic and are of little value in determining future success in various professional fields. They exist for the purposes of the education profession, not for the students.

American education is fundamentally flawed at very basic levels. The main problems are (a) parents who regard educational institutions as sitter services, (b) a civilization that has stopped putting education at the first priority and therefore failed in its faith to its own children, (c) underpaid educators who are undereducated themselves, and often have bad attitudes, besides, and (d) a national educational establishment that is rigid and calcified, far too institutionalized and conservative, and actively works against innovation rather than for it.