Pro-Choice and Anti-Capital Punishment?

Please name another part of a woman's body that has it's own brain, heart etc..., moves and thinks independantly and does not share her dna.

Gee, I didn't know that. Thanks for filling me in. We don't adequately care for the children already alive on the planet today, but yeah, by all means, let's make sure every fertilized egg becomes another mouth to feed. I'm sure that kid who depends on garnished wages from two irresponsible unemployed teenagers is going to have an excellent life. If they wanted not to bring it into this world but are forced to because of opinions like yours, your wages should be garnished to provide for it.

You guys are silly.

They're just babies!

Her husband?

All of those come into being, but are not present in the beginning. It is most definately a part of her.

They are all present before the kid is born... so are you admitting a fetus is not a part of a woman's body before birth?

Your response does not logically follow Juro's quote.

Again, putting words in my mouth... every fertilised egg, did I say? No.

You are very good at fighting a Christian pro-life argument, but truly, you fail to understand me. And in doing so, you enter some very, very dark territory.

Perhaps that child would not have, as you say, an excellent life. Maybe it would never own an SUV, or cable television. I presume you are in the United States, or the UK perhaps? Most of the world does not have an excellent life, and would consider such circumstances quite fortunate.



I am also curious just where you draw your line.

What of the baby born unexpectedly crippled, unable to walk? What business is it of ours, if the parents decide to kill their newborn on the spot?

Would you vote immediately to end the taxation that assists, say, the severely autistic? Justifications abound.



Incidentally, I'll give you some targets to aim at, for my views are not the usual 'canned media' pro-life or pro-choice.

- I believe in families being partly responsible for their elderly, more than the state, but most are just fine with letting the state deal with it. Again, a case of people dodging responsibility and 'looking away'.

- There is a great deal of difference between a panic-stricken 19 year old couple having an abortion out of fear, and a 35 year old mother of two taking a 'morning after' pill after she has been raped. While personally, I think the heroic thing to do would be to allow both children their life - I would accept a society that felt otherwise, knowing mine was only one opinion of many.

- In regard to the parents that refuse well-established medical treatment for their children - I think such parents are guilty of extreme child endangerment and should be punished, severely.



I would carry on about the dangers of practicality and justifications when it came to human life - but Godwin's law would soon be invoked.

ahem... chance... it was a question my friend, not a response.

Your responsive query does not logically follow Juro's quote.

beginning = conception

Are you telling me that the fetus has lungs, heart, brain, etc from the beginning?

Are you telling me that it has the woman's dna like every other part of a woman's body from the begining?

And it matters that you think that why again?

I can't name another part of a woman's anatomy, but I certainly can for a man's!

Jessica

No - but it is still part of a woman's body. So, are you still telling me that it has a heart, brain, lungs, etc. at the beginning?

LAFS!!! I love that answer Jessica.

Explain to me exactly how it is a part of a woman's body if it does not share her dna please.

Because if he is, then you admit the elephants don't have anywhere to trundle, don't you?

1. they are physically attached
2. it resides *inside* her body
3. it shares resources produced by her

So is a tapeworm... is that a part of a woman's body too? hehe

I have to run for now... I am comfortable agreeing to disagree Juro. I enjoyed the conversation... carry on!

Sorry, Desmond. Your posts on this topic are highly rhetorical and you haven't defined a clear position.



Children should be provided with proper care, nutrition, medical care, and education, as I've already stated earlier in the thread, so your comments about SUV ownership and cable tv are putting words in my mouth. As human beings we have an obligation to try and ensure that all of our fellow human beings are provided with those basic necessities, not just because it's of benefit to each individual, but because it's of benefit to all of us in the long run. We do not currently provide those basic necessities to people who aren't fortunate enough to be born to parents who can provide them.



I don't draw the line for anyone but myself. It's not my place to.



Let's assume that we all agree that once a child is born, killing it is murder, so the above is a pointless question.



If severe autism could be diagnosed previous to birth I personally would think aborting it to be the most humane thing to do, but unless I am one of the parents of that child it's not my decision to make, pro or con.



In other words, you reserve the right to change your opinion based on circumstances, or as that's more commonly known, you are pro-choice.

I don't quite understand your reasoning. You claim children deserve proper care, nutrition, medical care, and education etc. What I'm struggling with is the notion that should we be in a position where we think we may not be able to provide these things, we should choose to kill the child, to save it from a life of want and need.

I would ask you to find some people who are alive today that had a terrible childhood and life in general whether life is worth living even with the difficulties. My opinion is most will tell you, even though life was tough, it was well worth the struggle.

Then ask them if they wish they had been aborted.

You can't miss what you never had in the first place. I don't consider a fetus to be a child. I'm of the opinion that life begins at birth, not conception. Had I been aborted, for whatever reason, I don't think I'd know to be bothered by it.

The question is, would you have preferred to be aborted should your childhood be crap?

The life belongs to the one whose life it is.

According to science, life begins when from the time creature is alive until when it dies. The child is alive at conception.

It's time for my regularly scheduled announcement. I would like to inject between all the pseudoscientific medical wrangling (from both sides) a reminder, that this issue cannot be settled purely by agreeing upon fetal characteristics and their relationship to the mother. In fact, this is a complex interpersonal and societal issue that goes far beyond the simplistic question "what is a fetus".

With that said, performed by a responsible physician, abortions in the first trimester for any reason, including convenience, are perfectly acceptable. It is a choice parents (not the state or any other third party) make for themselves.

~Ulrika~