MY fps jumped up since last update - wow....

I must ask -Are there any more than me that feel that the new version plus update made the fpe jump up???

I use the Mac version and I get higer fps now than before.. and no its not my new comp..

What lovely things did you do LL?

BTW Congrats to lots of new nice functions in the software.. and of course I love the EXAKT Light settings..


/Tina - Guess once what my company are named.. )

That's Occlusion Culling at work. I have higher FPS too.

I think you'll find the VAST majority of people will see a FPS jump. I did an article on this and found no problems. Looking through this forum it appears that most of the technical problems are related directly to incompatable ( i.e. NEVER supported ) or really low end graphics cards.

Yes, there was a HUGE gain in fps in the update... I got a massive 5.5 fps in one reference location, shame I'm still over 20 fps DOWN on my documented 1.9 figure for the same location.

Obselete hardware?
7900GTX 512

Never worked in SL?
42 fps in the above location in 1.9

MY crap hardware/drivers/software/setup/connection?
Now tested by others with similar hardware/drivers/software/setup/connection and found to have nearly identical figures

Best of all it's now being confirmed by others, including users of both Macs and PCs, that most of the settings for graphics have no significant effect on fps!
Anyone who approached the problem methodicaly and with an open mind might even suspect that (FOR ANYTHING BUT A 6600) SL graphics are horribly broken

Maybe they should just publish the complete specs of the developer's machines. I'm sure everyone would be much happier then. Most players have a spare $2k (UK 9900 quid + VAT) so they can play a game and make $$$$$.

On second thought maybe SL don't run so hot on the developer's machines either. They've not said so far as I've seen.

I have heard conflicting concerns abotu the 7900 GTX and its driver stability since its release. Are you sure that is not a factor in the equation Doc? (No I'm not trying to bash you, I honestly dont know if your aware of the status of the 7900 GTX and reported issues, or if that has been hence fixed.)

Your right Ezequal, I read about it too. Do you have the overclocked version Doc?

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA2OSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

The only issues I've heard of with some 6 and 7 series cards is that - IN THE OPEN - as opposed to in a club/store/closed box, they have taken a huge fps hit.

Myself, I like wide open spaces, that's why I own a whole mainland sim (though it's now up for sale).
Why LL would think people need great fps in enclosed spaces and NOT out there in the world I have no idea.
In fact I don't believe it was a 'decision', it's just a side effect of Occlusion Culling - a solution in search of a problem if there ever was one!
You see, having 1.10 with occlusion culling is just like having 1.9 with 'Disable Far Clip' enabled... It's FINE indoors, but outdoors there aren't enough features, even in a fairly densly built up sim, to prevent the client loading everything for miles around. And turning OC off doesn't do a bit of good because it just cripples OC - it doesn't stop the 'Disable far clip' behaviour.

Having said that, NONE of the graphics settings, including Graphics RAM, make a bit of difference to fps now, in fact even halving draw only makes about 4-5fps difference, which is plain ridiclous! (in perspective - relative to what should be a 40+ frame rate)

If you are used to low fps (low by my standards) and spend most of your time indoors, 1.10 is brilliant. If you prefer open spaces, even spacious buildings, it's awful.

And this is NOT a purely 7900GTX 512 problem either. It's now been tested on PC 6 and 7 series cards and Mac 6 series cards.

I wouldn't mind it so much if it weren't for the fact that I reported this all through Preview from as soon as the problem appeared until the day before 1.10 was released! If I'm still around for the next 'Previewed' release I'm certainly not wasting any time testing - seeing LL's attitude to bugs is *fingers in ears* 'LaLaLaLa - we can't HEAR you!'

Yup - post the early problems though. And those problems were '7900 cards have been artifacting and/or locking up while playing games.'
I think right after release chipsets were in short supply and manufacturers were overclocking unsuitable chips... Anyway, this problem extends to 6800s too

My card doesn't artifact
My card doesn't lock up
My card ran perfectly UNTIL 1.10 was released (It also gave problems in Preview, which were bug reported and clearly ignored)

Oh, and it works perfectly in Oblivion which is, according to the link, a 7900 breaker...

I agree Doc and I have seen the same problem that turning OC off does not work as well as "Disable Far Clip" (which I wish LL would have given us the option to turn it off fully). I am not seeing much of a performance hit per se. But I have noticed that after I am SL for a while textures take forever to fully render. Bascially a caes of "fuzzy textures". However they will fully rez imeditly if I put my pointer over the texture in question. Now when I first come into SL everything rezes just fine like Pre 1.10. But after a while this problem pops up. I have no idea if it was in the preview or not as I wan't in there for hours at a time. But I did do a lot of different tests to make sure everything was working but as I said, I didn't see this problem.



[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind it so much if it weren't for the fact that I reported this all through Preview from as soon as the problem appeared until the day before 1.10 was released! If I'm still around for the next 'Previewed' release I'm certainly not wasting any time testing - seeing LL's attitude to bugs is *fingers in ears* 'LaLaLaLa - we can't HEAR you!'[/QUOTE]

Yes I have got that feeling at times as well. But they did remove the shaders that were causing problems in 9.something. However I think that a certain percentage of people need to have problems before it is addressed. In a way I understand it, as it is difficult to please everyone. But still disappointing when YOU are the one that is having problems.

-DB

I experienced a *brief* increase in FPS right after the 1.10.0 release, but it didn't last. The very first time I logged in, my FPS tripled. I got almost 9 FPS on my crappy little Mac Mini! Textures for terrain and plants seemed to be loading fast, and it all looked great.

For about 5 minutes.

Then the cache filled up, or something, and I was back to 2 FPS or so.

The release this week to 1.10.1 didn't help. And I'm still seeing what I assume is an occlusion culling bug, where prims that are right next to me become invisible for no apparent reason.

If you have just the right video card, and lots of cache memory, I suppose it helps. But until they fix whatever has continuously been screwed up with cache reloading and efficient use of cache, it's not going to help much.

Certainly don't need anything like that to run SL well.. I'm fortunate enough to have quite a range of SL capable systems so done a quick test.

Athlon 64 3200+@2.5Ghz with X800 GTO2 - Works fine. - Value new around £500
Athlon 64 3800+X2 with X1800XT - Works fine - Value new around £900
Intel 2.6Ghz Smithfield Dual Core with 6600GT - Works Fine - Value new around £450
Toshiba P30 Laptop - To be checked.

Note I havn't checked stability ( not had time to play each system for any length of time ) but all boot straight into SL with a decent Frame rate and no visible issues. No local lights in the shot that I know of but I was wearing flexi prim hair.

The 3800+ system is my main system and works superbly with the latest release.

Incedently the test I did was looking from the roof of my castle looking out over my sim's tree strewn landscape with 192m draw distance and everything pushed to max.

I don't doubt you for a moment. And I'm happy you're happy with 1.10.
But with a 7900GTX 512 or a 6800GT/GS (this last in a Mac as well as PCs) and with an AMD 4000+, 4800+, FX57, or P4 Prescot 3200 there are problems.

*shrugs* all incredibly rare machines of course, all doubtless suffering driver/software/hardware/connection/firewall issues caused by incompetent users who haven't a clue.
Absolutely NOTHING to do with client software in which changing graphics settings (including Graphics RAM!) have little or no effect on fps... And nothing to do with the removal of graphics options that worked well and their substitution with options that, while being 'the next big thing' just don't work at all well...

Since yesterday's update I do have slightly better framerates and I can fly better, though still hitting things that just don't rez.

What bugs me, and others, is that having spent this sort of money to obtain a certain level of performance in the previous release, and worked hard in Preview to TRY and get these issues addressed, what do I get?
An update that's supposed to 'improve the Second Life experience' that massively degrades 'the Second Life experience'.

Well enough is enough.

Can't see the problem being CPU related as my Athlon 64's are fine and although mine are Venice and the ones you quoted SD cores I truly doubt that the difference is enough to cause a problem.

Driver wise I'm using

Forceware 84.21 (on the 6600GT)
Catalyst 6.3 (on the X800)
Catalyst 6.2 (on the X1800XT)

Hope that helps .

My FPS was AWESOME right after this update.... until I started crashing. *heh* I was so excited too.... was able to like, move and look around right when I clicked instead of having to wait for the framerate to catch up...

And now I can't stay logged in long enough to enjoy it. *heh* Which confuses the heck outta me.

Hmmm I had a nasty spate of crashes right after the intro of 1.10, but the first mini-patch fixed that I'm glad to say.

My sympathies Lyrak, it's hugely frustrating. I'll do you the courtesy of assuming you've tried all the obvious? If so than it's a matter of bitch like mad and wait in hopes. What a screwed up version this is...

We're still working hard to identify, reproduce, and correct the bugs related to the new 1.10 rendering features. So far, it's a slow process, because we have to spend so much time filtering through many crash reports from residents (like Lyrak) who don't meet Minimum System Requirements, and other residents who haven't updated their drivers (which may very well solve their issue).

With all due respect Lee, I identified several rendering and fps issues in Preview, and bug reported them all, yet the release still went ahead with them unfixed for reasons I can only speculate about.


However, thanks for dropping by and letting us know that the issues are recognised and receiving attention. That's something at least.

I asked yesterday. No answer so far.
see /139/74/110827/1.html

I asked yesterday. no answer yet.
see /139/74/110827/1.html

It's highly likely the developers use firly high end systems. It's innefficient not to. QA may well have some older systems, probably ex-developers machines, however people must remember that it's impossible to have every practical permutation. they won't of course have incompatable hardware and they will most likely be running up to date XP, Drivers etc.

That's the whole point of needing test servers. But even then it must be remembered that timescales, sales team pressure and difficulty in isolating bugs means than for a minority.. and IT IS a minority, there will be bugs that slip through. One person may report a problem but if it's the only person then it WILL be a low priority bug especially if there are other bugs with many reports also causing severe problems. Therefore bug WILL be reported and WILL make it to Live.. Sadly something that go's with the territory.

BTW I DO NOT work for LL however I am an ex Analyst Programmer and know just what pressure is like as I worked on the bug fixing team a lot.

What I am hoping for is a detailed list of what they KNOW works really well, (including driver versions). Tell us what a state of the art system is for SL...

I'd expect this to change frequently, so this ought to be in a dynamic page (like the economic statistics page). Its one thing to list a bunch of video cards that ought to work ok (like in the current reccommended systems page). Much more useful to SL's pro-sumer customers are details on exactly what the SL developers feel are optimal configurations,
like what they are using themselves. This sort of thing should not be shrouded in mystery.

The one thing I hadn't tried was dropping my graphics memory setting down to 16. So for the benefit of people crashing, I have just been logged on for an hour without any major issue with the following settings:

Disk cache size set to mazimum.
Graphics:
-Draw distance 64
-run in a window
Detail:
-Normal rendering, turn off ALL the bells and whistles as far as lighting and such goes. I seem to still be able to have mesh details at default settings.
-terrain detail low
-no avatar vertex (dunno what difference it makes as I don't have it as an option lol)
Adv. Graphics:
-Graphics card memory set to 16MB. Your textures will suck majorly, but you lag less it seems.
-Max particle count: 0
-Outfit composite limit: 0
-fog distance ratio: 4.0 (I can't ever remember if you put that up or down to reduce lag though... I just tend to go to debug and turn off fog and clouds, though I haven't done that yet and am running okay)
Audio:
-No streaming is turned on.

As for the crash reports, am I to assume I should just stop sending them in for a while then? *heh*

On Thursday I was informed that a 7800 card is being ordered for the dev team in order to help them resolve 7 series issues which have emerged since the release of 1.10.

The implication is that LL has been 'developing' SL without having a 7 series card available for QA/Testing purposes.

*sigh* what can you say? $11 million invested and not having up-to-date hardware for the dev team...

So much for 'It's highly likely the developers use firly high end systems. It's innefficient not to.'?

Hmmm, 'blind mode'
Oh well, at least it got you online!
Could be time for a graphics upgrade by the sounds of it, 6600s are dirt cheap and they DO seem to work ok - at the moment...