S.T.F.U About Non-Verified Accounts and Griefing !!!!!!!!!!!!

No we can't ever stop greifing 100%, but you have to admit that verification of some sort WOULD slow greifing down, and help eliminate weeks with as much down time as up time. If a greifer has to go through the hassle of getting a prepaid ect., Greifing would at least slow down to hopefully a level that we can all live with and get in to get our work done.

Ok Ok...

All I keep hearing here is how a griefer can buy a prepaid or gift card..and those can't be tracked...blah blah.

you're right...100% right. However the fact of the matter remains...a griefer will have to PAY to do their attack. Will this stop everyone. Nope, not at all. What will this do then, you ask. This will cut atleast half of them out. With half of them gone, you can now work on getting rid of the other half.

And I keep hearing so many people say activate with a fictious name. Well..I'll say this much. Accept only major credit cards, Visa, Master card and so forth. And now I say this, go right ahead and forge a name on one of their gift cards. Perhaps you'll nothign will happen the first or second time, however...sooner or later, these companies are going to get pissed...and they're going to find you. Say they can't all you want and you're living in a dream world.

Enough said, I know how many people are going to make a point that they can't be traced or they can just forge another card...or...they can a gift card from someone else that isn't traceable...and blah blah blah....well ya know what...why don't you give all these griefers ideas. I'm sure all of those looking ot cause trouble swim over forums like this, just so they can find out new tips...from stupid people who like to give them, to point out a fact of why something cna't be done...but it can be done this way. Great job

Now...flame my message all you want...because the way its going, I'm sure LL is getting pissed...and I'm sure...they're inching ever closer to verified accounts. I...for one....would be happy with it back.

one bit of food for thought.

In the 2.5 years I have been in SL LL has never made a retroactive change. IF they went back to verified only it would likely only apply to accounts created after a specific date which falls after the change is announced. It would not do away with unverifieds that already exist.

I think we should all start a community protest. FREE ACCOUNTS YES! UNVERIFIED NO!
Not just for griefing (which may equally be perpetrated by verified accounts) or grid attack reasons (which have increased since unverified accounts came about) but...
why have a teen grid when anybody can just sign up on the adult grid without age verification?
and a lot of the hardcore places here don't restrict admission to people with payment info.
Sure verification is not fool proof but it will be a deterrent for those people with dubious motives.

I welcome the influx of new residents to our Second Life but... at what cost?

p.s: i don't think anyone is suggesting current unverified accounts be cancelled - but stopping unverified registrations in the future may help with the grid attack problem.

Well thankfully, as stated in the linden blog, the feds have been notified so these punks that were behind these attacks laughing it up about the trouble they caused will soon be crying another tune. Hopefuly good sence will prevail and that in itself will be a deturant. If not though the Lindens are working on a solution and they'll find one. I mean c'mon, they made sl surely we can put our faith in their ability to stop a couple cyberpunks.

I'm not buying the rationale about opening up SL to these people all over the world who don't have/can't get credit cards.... Well, what about the people all over the world without sufficient hardware capability to run SL? I'm very sure *they* could contribute to the SL experience also. But you know what, they are excluded. Should LL make SL less taxing so you can run it on some celeron or 3 year old laptop? Oh, you need to upgrade? Why, what an "elitist" suggestion.

My point is, despite all the buzz about the "new internet" and all the mitch kapor quotage, SL is *not* going to be available for everybody. The sooner the LL gets that into their heads, the sooner they can get to concentrating on the work of making the experience more enjoyable for those of us who *are* here.

Correction...
The reason people have a problem with GRIEFERS is that they grief in the first place.
Get it right plz.
Just cause the free account people are the most obvious new addition doesn't mean it's one of them causing the problems. Nor does it mean it's not discrimination to lump all of us together and start pointing fingers. Not my fault I just discovered this game and there's a free option... Hold a drum head or a witch hunt why don't you...
Seriously, fix the higher scripting permissions, or whatever it is you want, but plz cut the griping and singling us out... it's frikkin annoying.

Pardon?

Where did I say that I, personally, was against unverifieds?

My point was about the nonsense in the post above mine saying it was "obvious" that the grid attacks were an attempt to discredit unverifieds, which I find ridiculous.

What I was saying is that this call to end unverified accounts was due to the impression that the griefers were on unverified accounts and that seems to be the only reason I can see for said call. Unless anyone has any other reason for it...

Therefore, the idea that grid attacks were an attempt to discredit unverifieds by someone with a verified account is ludicrous.

Maybe ACTUALLY reading the posts instead of skimming and knee-jerking might be an idea.

I started with an unvarified account. But I shifted to paying for a Premium account. because I like owning land. But given the current state of things, it is very difficult to have people commonly justify ponying up the 9.95 a month just to get a 512 space of land, that is still highly limited in what a person can do with it. A person very well has to spend more to be able to build anything anywhere near a moderate level that would be even close to what they like. This makes paying the Premium in the first place seem a bit of a ripoff.

Giving away the keys to the kingdom to the extent that Linden Labs has to unvarified users devalues the Premium accounts to a painful degree. Just what incentive is there for people to pony up when most of the features are already given away.

Linden Labs needs to make the Premium accounts truly premium again. We need better benefits at that level that will get people to fork over those subscription fees. A bigger initial land allocation would be a good start. But there have to be far more benefits than that.

Also, since the Teen Grid seems to not really getting much actual use, I think there could be a nice solution there. Possibily change it to an Unvarified Grid. Make it a newbie grid that has extremely limited functions. An introductory area that would give people a small taste of what Second Life is all about for free. Without having them mix with or bother the main SL population. And then when they actually get varified subscriber status, they get shifted to the main grid.

Such a method provides a layer of protection against casual griefing by abuse of unvarified accounts to be contained within a controlled area. And if LL gets sick of dealing with the casual griefers, they can just pull the plug entirely without hurting actual subscribers.

Also, I see very little point of PG zones in the main Second Life grid. It's a system that is supposed to be for the over 18 crowd in the first place. It seems completely stupid to basically create areas specifically geared toward pandering to an audience that doesn't belong in the grid in the first place

PG areas on the adult grid aren't for children... they're for adults that don't want to deal with or be surrounded by raunchy pr0n.

And just like in real like, the NIMBY's strike again....

Nowhere, and I didn't say or mean that you did. My only comment to what you said was that correction I made. What I quoted of yours seemed like a stand-alone statement. The rest of my rant wasn't directed at you... was just an opinion.

Apparently so.

You clearly don't want a PG area in your back yard.

LOL You are kidding right? This I seriously do not agree with. Ok, let's see here...
let me get this right, you are saying that "people with verified accounts are griefing because they are angry about unverified accounts". Hmmmmm Let's look at the facts and see how this statement could be true.
John / Jane Doe "I am verified and have or do the following in SL:

1. I will attack the grid because: I have been in SL long enough that I know I enjoy it, have many friends and play for at least 2 to 3 hrs a day, if not more.
2. I will attack the grid because: I own land in which I have my home, business, etc. on that I pay in the range of $25 to over $200 a month to have.
3. I will attack the grid because: I am a content creator and have contribuited greatly to SL.
4. I will attack the grid because: I am a content creator and it is crucial that SL be up and running properly for me to create more items - which in turn takes away from my own social enjoyment of SL, for the many many hours I spend making items in SL for other people's enjoyment.
5. I will attack the grid because: I am a host who just wants to earn a few tips to buy that special outfit I saw the other day, but now cant because the grid is down, or scripts are turned off.
6. I will attack the grid because: I am in the business of buying/selling land in SL - and have noticed that since this past month alone sales are down because no one is buying land due to griefer attacks.
7. I will attack the grid because: I am a scripter and it's nice and easy to get my work done when the grid is open with locked scripts.
8. I will attack the grid because: I am a content creator who is renting a plot of land - and cannot get my work done, or make new items to keep shoppers coming back for more - so I cannot pay my rent, and thus in turn have to terminate my business or buy Lindens online.
9. I will attack the grid because: My business failed and I love buying lindens online.
10. I will attack the grid because: I have months if not years of my time invested into SL.
11. I will attack the grid because: I work for Live Help and love getting spammed to death with messages of "OMG IM BEING ATTACKED HELP".
12. I will attack the grid because: I am a Linden and love having 500,000 disgruntled users and swamped with work, not only of keeping SL a decent running game, but now the job of tracking down people who are attacking the grid, that in turn takes away from my job of keeping a stable grid.

Wow this list could go on forever. Now just by looking, can you really sit back, and look at this list of the MANY things that verified accounts have on the line if SL is down because of an attack and say "verified accounts are attacking the grid"?
I'm sorry but us "verified" account holders are very frustrated with griefer attacks. Why? Hmm well, read #1-12 and then use common sense to come up with the other tons of reasons I'm sure many many other players could give you. I seriously doubt verified account holders are inflicting harm upon themselves.
If you were to see the people whom are "griefing", I can pretty much say without a doubt the account was made 1 day before the attack, and if they are an alt of a verified account, it isnt someone who has much at stake in game. Why would someone create an alt on the same computer as their main, if they need SL up and running properly to be successful in whatever they choose to do, to take the risk of runing their reputation, or having their main name permabanned for something stupid and petty they did on an alt account? Not likely to happen.
Xaria

You underestimate the lengths at which some people will go to prove a point. There are clearly (just look at the angry posts on the forums) a lot of very emotionally anti-unverified people. It only takes one person (of the many thousands) whom knows SL very well to formulate a crippling attack.

I think it's slightly more likely that someone who has been around, possibly only with a pay US$10-once type account, who's just angry enough at LL for removing CC verification to go to this extreme. I think it's less likely that some newb off the street could come up with something as insidious as the most recent grid attack.

Unless we're being attacked by fanatical TSO or There terrorists.

As much as we want to argue "is it a verified or unverified that is causing the attacks" that is only half the problem. Angry or not, verified or not - the problem lies in this...anyone can make as many accounts as they want because of open enrollment. So thus, in the griefer's mind "I can do whatever, whenever, however because I dont have to pay $10 everytime I make a new account". If the griefer had to pay every single time they had to make a new account because the last one they made was banned by LL - without a doubt - the multiple grid attacks, day after day, hour after hour, would cease.

And let a few malicious vandals determine the fate for the majority of SL's future population? I strongly disagree with that.

SL needs to be more robust so that attacks are:

1. harder to start and slower to propogate,
   
2. less of an impact on the entirety of SL,
   
3. easier to detect and stop, and
   
4. safer to clean up after.
   

The more of that that can be automated the better.

A $10 fee might stop some trivial pranksters, but LL already has safeguards in place to thwart their efforts.

The last few attacks have had special aspects to make them much harder for LL to clean up... which tells me this is no ordinary griefer, but someone dedicated to doing damage. Someone that already understands SL well enough to craft attacks for maximum disruptiveness.

And, clearly, someone who went to a fair amount of effort.

A $10 fee is no obstacle or deterrant to someone like that.

Hardly.

I just don't believe in a bubble-wrapped world. Especially one that was created for and by adults. It's pointless and does nothing but harm to an environment that is supposed to be about creativity first.

I have delt with some painful NIMBY's in the past in real life. They are no fun to have around. And in fact, are supremely dangerous to real world infrastructure. Check out the energy woes in regareds to power plants in California, for a good example NIMBY carnage.

NIMBY's want power. But they protest and make life utter hell for those trying to build power plants to feed that desire. The NIMBY's want it both ways. They want to benefit from the energy produced, but do not want to support the source of that power. And in fact, do everything possible to kill creation of sources to feed their hunger for power.

And you can absolutely count on, that in SL, where most of the economy is generated from adult oriented businesses, that the NIMBY's want reap all of the benefits of those businesses without making any sacifices for their existance.

Btw, I happen to, in SL, to live near an adult oriented club. I don't mind what they do. I don't care what they do. They do their thing and I do mine. They are good neighbors in that they don't bother me. And I grant them the same courtesy.

as mentioned early in replies, $9.99 might be a lot to often pay.....but as mom of a 16yo who earns AU$50 per shift at work...... IF He was a griefer, he'd be happy to spend it on that x 5.....and a shift is a day....you do the math (good initial post!)

I dont think the grid attacks we suffer now, are 'griefers' as griefers known in most games and second life. The attacks are severe, well planned and every time harder to counter. The downtime of the grid extends from week to week.
I think someone (an individual or group) is making a statement, someone who is not pleased with Linden Lab and has a good reason to make this all happen.
So do not worry about unverified accounts, even if LL decides to do something silly about that, the attacks will not end.
You all cry out loud about unverified accounts, how about the database hack? Your names, your rl info, your credit cards, isnt that more frightening then a goo ball crashing your sim?
Linden Lab has an enemy for whatever reason, a skilled enemy. I cant do a thing about that, you cant and it seems Linden Lab cant either.
So stop this useless whining and pointing fingers, whatever they do to unverified accounts, it will NOT stop the grid attacks.

ok hok? please dont papraphrase me and prove me right, you said word for word what i did. you bought a gift card. period. a non reloadable gift card. i have for all intent and purposes a credit card that i had to give my info on which they did verify. so no matter how hard you try to say that a gift card and a pre paid are the same, you will be wrong.


and my point was this: with a GIFT CARD, there is no way to tell who is who, only that it was bought at xyz store. WITH A PRE PAID CREDIT CARD which means YOU PRE PAY THE AMOUNT you wish to have on that card.it is the same as carrying around cash, and as i have stated in my post: THE ONE I HAVE VERIFIED MY INFO BEFORE SENDING ME THE CARD, I CANNOT SPEAK FOR OTHERS. for all intent and purposes it is a credit card, I am resposible for my credit limit.

as for you and many other comparing an internet game( for all intents and purposes thats what it is) to Bigotry? Racism? you need lives. im sure no one will show up in the middle of the night and shoot or hang you because you dont have a verifable account. im sure that the Lindens wont make you wear a *NONVERI* patch like the nazis did in germany to all non germans. im sure no Sheet covered southerner is coming to your home to hang you for not having the sense to even set up a pay pal account.

im done and im takin my verified accoutn with me

I picked and pay to reside in PG frontier land two years ago.

The continent has expanded, and I'm no longer on the edge. I border an M sim. (and bought land in it, partly for my own use, partly to control what's directly adjacent to my PG parcels).

My back yard IS mature land, technically. I'm okay with that.

What I want, is MY primary land, the stuff that *I* pay for, to be free of pornographic material so that I can do other things with it.

There are plenty of back yards already zoned for mature content, with more arriving every week.

Your power plant is approved for construction anywhere you've bought land for it. If you want to to use pr0n for fuel... some sims may not be appropriate for your project.

That is neither harmful, nor NIMBYism nor the end of the world, nor something that rightfully should be compared to the rather serious power crisis that CA had.



--
Oh yeah, and the NIMBYist Eco-nuts were merely pawns in the CA power fiasco. That mess was masterfully orchestrated over the last decade by the power companies strictly for their own agenda and benefit.

better yet set traps to detect creation of objects that have no purpose but to grief and auto-notify the authorities so thay can send the goon squad to lynch them. too bad it is inherently wrong to send something down to the perps pc that will destroy it.

yea yea just like with antivirus crap it is an endless cycle. poor sexgen. the solution is to eliminate the functions that allow a prim to rez another prim. perhaps only allow objects with a registerd parent object id to rez another object. then products like sexgen can be registered by the developer, etc. people showing up writing scripts that call functions that must be authentivcated might not enjoy such success.

overall its fairly useless. lately it is the plethora of other issues killing off participation. why buy clothes and skins if your gonna wind up a walking missing image anyway. linden labs better get a solid fix in pretty quick.

Obviously!

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oddly i can go from sim to sim and never find more than a couple of avis in the sims. where are all these people? i would love to know where the action is. not including piles of afk avis in camping chairs lol. they must be somewhere right? Now there's a feature to request... show me where everyone is right now...list sims, order by descending avi count.