Can you LL monkeys ever get this right?

Some are saying "its an experiment" , some are saying "they are artists" , others say "oh they don't even make a profit" . Listen boys and girls , SL is a full blown business now , not an experiment . LL needs to take a real world approach to making their product stable and workable if they ever want any credibility . What has been their track record lately . Excuse me if i don't appreciate piss poor performance and if i have the actual nerve to say something about it .

Ah Gianni..I like your style. But..Truth be told..My guess is unless half these noobs opt out, lick thier wounds and go play W**..It will come back worse then before. But who cares. I pay just enough to give me a right to complain and oddly enough..I can find no reason to with this little tiff. To be quite honest, it is worth it just to see one noob call another noob a newb. As for the people losing thier investments, retirement money, car payments and rent to the dreaded "Unknown"..*Points and laughs*..Told ya so. So yeah..I know your just venting, just mad, just panicing 2 days before el Landlord comes abangin on the door saying "Gimme da rent lady!!"..But really.. Let the Lindens do what they do best..whatever that is..And keep complaining here..Cause truth be told..the Lindens don't even bother to read this. Linden answers? Perhaps one or Two will drop us a bone and give a "Working on it" kinda post. "When will it change you scream? when will they get it right!?" you rail? Well..Probably when they have a reason to. Like when people STOP throwing good money after bad..I mean really..Why fix something that people will pay for even if it's broken?

Flame on Talking heads.

...but what the heck does it matter how long someone has been in SL?

A n00b sees it all as fresh and exciting and full of promise and doesn't mind a little downtime.

Someone with over $10,000 spent might have a different point of view and set of expectations.

No more expectations. I loved it 10 months ago, but all the $ spent looks like a write off now.

The biggest issue is being over looked, this game is meant to bring people together not rip us apart....Instead of comparing what we don't agree on why don't we begin comparing what we do. I think the main thing we all agree on is SL is fun and can be *laughs* mega addictive.....so we all want it back up and running. If we put our heads together and begin discussing solutions instead of coulda, wouldas.... (which we have all done A LOT of at this point), It is quite possible we could *HELP* them get this show on the road.

Also can't remember who said this however.... There are many companies creating games like SL or on the same basis now. When copybot was around I went investigating you should SEE some of these graphics. The world today is all about technology and all about improving the virtual experience, LL did this in a way that was new and exciting, I don't think anyone will argue that point. However what they did was such a smashing success it is now time to figure out how to expand even more =)

As far as server pricing, if you look into it as if you were going to be purchasing yourself you will see the server rates have dropped quite a bit, now is a great time for them to think about expanding what they have. I think if we stopped with the adding of new features (which only cause more memory & capacity to make SL run) and start fixing errors that are already occurring. Wait until those errors are completely ironed out THEN go on to create further features.

SL if it is a RL business or just for fun it is a great game and experience to be a part of.... just need some work, mean while they need to give us more info on the issues. Then we could possibly be of further assistance....

The length of time you have been playing for doesn't matter at all, heck anyone who has joined in the last MONTH knows there is alot going on. However I think what was being said earlier is those of us who have been here since well the beginning are a bit more frustrated as we have put up with this for a while. Playing length doesn't matter we are all entitled to how we feel, after all it is a free country....er depends on where you live I guess *giggles* but you get the point!

Agreed - I look at things differently as a 3 month old.

But - though I feel badly (I can actually feel their stress radiating) for the business owners, I guess I am not surprised at this. I joined SL at a time (late September) when downtime was the norm - griefer attacks, grey goo and on and on. It just doesn't surprise me that this has happened. And though I "own" almost 4000mm on an island and have been verified from day 1, I don't upgrade to premium for this very reason. I see all the issues with billing (no responses, etc.) - and I want no part of that for now.

When things settle down again, I have every intention of upgrading once I see what the new customer support options will be for premiums.

Last night, i went to a hotel and got a room.

When tried to open the door, the key didn't work and I couldn't get in.

The guy at the front desk said "Sorry, no refunds."

It was cool.

The standard "go play another game" answer is so over-done. So is the "stop whining" response.

Right-o. No guarantees.

Rather than bash one another, let's try to remember that everyone has different reasons for investing what they have.

For anyone who knows me, you know I'm not a "let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya" type, but seriously... enough telling people with a legitimate gripe to go elsewhere, or that they shouldn't have spent what they spent (because without a time machine, that point is kinda moot).

Hoping the grid's back up soon so I can stop trying to come up with excuses not to clean. Or do laundry. Or organize my desk. Or.....

Sorry, hon.. LL says the sim code is designed to run on a single processor. With class 4 & 5 servers being twin dual-core machines, that's up to 4 sims per physical system. All servers may not always run 4 sims but nobody gets a dedicated server to themselves. You buy a (logical) processor when you get an island, not a server.

A good website to see which sims are on the same server. Note that LL changed the way they report the server class so the class info is wrong on this website. I think LL recently said that the entire grid is now all class 4 or class 5.

exactly Stacy, so anyone have any clues or ideas, to help ease the server load? please dont say limit inventory(i have way too much stuff and was in the process of vendoring them or learnign how, when this happened). limit accounts numbers? reinstate the CC verify?

me? id like to see accounts not accessed in 90+ days be removed as this prolly contributes a lot to server storage overload. or get rid of those non payment accounts not accessed in 30 days. anyone else have an idea?

*moves*

ok I was running off the class one info. >_< Shows what I get for not reading townhalls all the way through.

edit: I just used that link sindy and two of the Private islands I just polled are single sims on a class 4. Though it did show 5 on a class 4 for mainland. The data while technically sound is not always correct as some were told way back in black or white they were the only sim there. Not sure if that has much to do with it or not.

I think when a lot of the issues started getting to be a major problem was when they started the whole free account thing, if we did do the 90 day wipe for accounts that weren't accessed that would help a lot. I think the free account was to draw more people to the game and now as well all know there are plenty, so I think rather then doing free trials or cheap start outs let people hop on the Beta Grid.... if they like it then they can purchase an account. This will not only help server loads but will bring in more money to LL since some are saying they aren't getting enough to do what they need to. Hiring more employees who are WELL qualified for fixing issues and are on-call 24/7 might be a bit expensive but would make the older players who wanna see some take action steps put into place happy

I would venture to guess that storage is not a real big issue. Even with very large DBs, the number of times it is accessed would be more of a strain then the size of it. Even with 4 sims running on a single physical server, that is still 2 CPUs, with 4 sets of RAM to have. Not to mention the amount of networking that must be done with each of the 1000s of servers they have running. As a business owner with 1000's of USD invested, I am really not to worried about this short down time. Even if I was worried, what good will whining on forum really do?

The ongoing problems with SL are not specific to LL, so whether or not someone is a newbie is irrelevant to an anaysis of the business issues involved.

Many, if not most, new businesses fail. The problems that LL is having are typical of the kinds of issues that ANY new business grapples with, especially when it begins to grow rapidly. Maintaining quality, providing customer support, finding reliable vendors, re-organizing your workforcer and management to cope with the rapidly changing company structure, improving your product without destroying it -- these are all common obstacles to success for any new venture.

All too often companies do not solve these problems. The "incompetence" we're all seeing are typical growth pains, and finding the solutions are not as easy as we'd like to believe. Apple Computer nearly crashed over these same issues, with the company founders being tossed out during the restructuring. Thousands of other companies did crash. If you're unlucky, you may own an orphaned piece of equipment from one of them.

I'm not defending LL; there isn't any question that they're struggling hard, and not too well, with all these "challenges." IF they manage to survive this phase, then they'll run into all the issues that undermine an established business; iif they fail, they'll have lots of company.

*Waves to Strife and scribbles all over his rezmod tag with a green crayola* Why is the sky Blue? Whats sunlight made of? Why do my feet sink an inch into SL's ground when I'm in an expensive pair of shoes? Whats SL ground made of anyways? Sure is squishy. I can fall from 5k and just go oomph, get up and walk away..I mean really..Is it like that stuff they make the Swedish foam beds from? Tell me Strife! Your a Resident! Answer! Pleaaaase! Answer! *runs to my room and slams the door*

i agree with the big free account "sale"is the best way i can put it) it may have been the beginning of the issues. but now im wondering if it hasnt been a server issue all along? and the resulting bugs(tp's, textures attachments) were all due to just that one thing now.

anyhow,nods a 90day wipe would be a good idea, but i would send warnings to those accounts first, ie : dear member, it has come to our attention that you havent not accessed your account in 90 days, if you wish to remain with us etc etc and give them a set time to do so. and before i get hit with the thats not fair, i too remember the hack that made LL close the grid, and many of those accounts could be locked due to that, but im also thinkin of the accounts created just for griefing and camping purposes, if they havent been accessed lets clean em up.

From everything I read so far SL is being supported by venture capitalists giving millions to help get it a float in hope SL can become very profitable. A article I read in March says LL them selfs stated they have yet to become profitable. What this tells me is the venture capitalists are pushing LL to make it profitable and fast or they pull their support. Hence the opening of unverified accounts to get as many possible people to profit from as possible. As of march 2006 they were not profitable.

Linden article: http://lindenlab.com/press/releases/03_28_06
Other article: http://news.com.com/Second+Life+scores+11+million+in+funding/2100-1043_3-6054598.html


Interesting article to read:
http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2006/12/05/surge-in-high-end-second-life-business-profits/

In my opinion these numbers are pretty weak for having a so called 2million+ member platform. However we all should know by now 2mill is outrageously incorrect. I have met hundreds of people in worlds over the year + I have been in SL that have at least 5 alts. I met some that have a few hundred alts. I met club owners that have 5 alts in their clubs at all times to make them look interesting. These are just the people that admit to it.

More articles:
http://many.corante.com/archives/2006/12/12/second_life_what_are_the_real_numbers.php


Anyway SL is back up...

...anyone else have an idea?

Yes.
It's obvious that SL's current design doesn't scale well.

Linden Lab should allow anyone to run a server, while they coordinate and license these distributed nodes.

They would also be a central point for avatar identities (although these may also be distributed).

Different inventories and credit accounts may reside at LL, on your local machine, and at the server you are visiting, based on what storage and bandwidth you have arranged.

Private companies that want to own islands are now responsible for their own reliability and security and probably have structure in place already.

If Disney wants to build Disneyworld, they can do so independently, with virtually no load to other users. This also lets them be insulated from the adult content that is currently a barrier to conservative organizations that don't want their brand tarnished with being seen next to porn ads.

This design would also help break the stagnation that we've seen with the dated graphics, primitive geometry and limited scripting language.

Linden Lab turns into more of a client/server supplier and coordinator, and less of a server farm. They would publish, but still control the protocol.

They could also then be freed up to make clients for game consoles, bridging systems like Xbox Live Arcade and Wii online.

Once the protocol is well established, your avatar can walk from the welcome area, to a battle in Guild Wars, a drive in Need for Speed Online 8, to Smithsonian Online, to Amazon Reality Shops, to your perfect replica of your home on your Nintendo DS2.

Anything else is probably a waste of time.
--

Everyone knows this, including LL's future competitors. Much easier said than done, however.

-peekay

If I understand the way things work (and used to work) correctly, the sim hostname used to contain class information - with the real sim hostname (see llGetSimulatorHostname) and a little string parsing, you could figure out what class of server the sim was running on. Not too, too long ago, LL removed the class info from the sim hostname. Because of that, you can no longer figure out the class from the hostname and the class info from that website isn't valid.

That website uses (I assume) an in-world object that calls llGetSimHostname at some interval and sends the sim and host names to the website. When you enter the sim name at the website, some backend code looks up the hostname for that sim and displays all the sims running on that host.

This is a clever idea but it's not always accurate. If a sim running on the same server has never been registered with the website (via the in-world object) or if the sim has been moved to a different server since it last registered, the info can be off.

...Much easier said than done, however....

Ain't working out too good the way it is.

I hope not ^_^ Otherwise IBM is gonna be ticked to see they are sharing quite a few servers with 4 other sims on a class 2

I guess it's not as obvious to me as it is to you, but... What timing?

Is there something big going on that would require the grid to be down, and I am just not aware of it? I simply cannot imagine what confused conspiracy theory would require that LL lie about the grid going down for some darker secret motive. Care to enlighten us?

I was assuming he was referring to the asset server "fix" yesterday and the bad performance over last weekend. I thought he was saying LL was covering up major code fix calling it hardware failures. Major code fix would be LL's fault as opposed to hardware not being their fault. He was saying LL did not want to admit fault in my opinion. However I think he is not correct.