Sad... My work has been ripped off

You mean the one the children made for you!

Briana Dawson

As far as libel or slander goes, it's only libel if it's untrue.

There are two types of copies. One is legal and the other isn't.

1. Independent development: If I come up with a similar idea and make something with my own two hands, then it's my creation. Even if it looks a little like someone else's, it's still mine. It's my understanding that this is generally protected UNLESS the work is a trademarked symbol or character. For example, you can't make and sell Homer Simpson dolls in-game, or Fox will sue you.

2. Direct copy: If I simply copy someone else's work, either by tracing or by copying the media directly (such as doing a screen cap of the texture), then that is a clear-cut violation of copyright law.

I've seen some of Torrid Midnight's stuff, and it's REALLY GOOD. I haven't seen much of Mistress Midnight's work yet.

Either way, I have to agree... those look nothing alike. And to say "you can't make a vinyl body suit just because I already did it" really isn't fair. After all, neither one of them invented the black vinyl bodysuit. That's been around for a while now.

Exactly! Thanks for the reminder. It's time for me to hit them with a stick again.

Agh! I'm guessing that [Name Deleted] is me... (since the rest mentions me)
...the story behind my catsuit is that Spider Mandala made me one back in 2003,--even had a helmet and when I try to wear it now, it gives me a database error. He told me that he made it in poser, so I figured I could do the same So I loaded up good ole' victoria 3 body glove and just rendered with some purple lighting..
I'm sorry If you feel that I copied you, I didn't intend to, after I made mine, I saw everyone wearing yours in transalvania one day, and I bought a red one you made for myself. I love your work,.. also have the maid outfit you made.

Anyway, I hope your impression of my isn't totally shot. I had no idea you felt that the catsuit was your own idea and that somehow my putting mine up for sale was an attempt to bash you, and/or undercut you.

--and oh yeah chip! I remember that catsuit too --the children in your sweatshop do fine work

Sorry for the abundance of emoticons.. I'm not an experienced forum...mer

? how do they look the same?
The lighting shadows on them are different.
MM's has a stripe down the side and is purple.
Only things I can think of are - They both made high necks - which I've seen on real catsuits. And they both look 'shiny'.

I remember that day in Transylvania when we were all wearing the latex cat suits. I was with Mistress and the gang. I think everyone can agree on something though, both designs are amazing but are different from each other.

Mistress didn't take her latex idea from Kyrah but I think the point is even if she did, that kind of thing happens all of the time in the real world.

If this were real life, I think we'd have Sears and The Bay at each other's throats. Old Navy and American Eagle would be steam rollin each other.

I dont think anyone's sales are going to be effected. Mistress only has one color (black and purple), where as Kyrah has 3 or 4. People who want a red suit are still going to go to Kyrah to buy it. People who want a purple one are going to go to MM.

I'm not saying they look exactly alike, but if I saw two people wearing them (going by the side by side picture aimee posted) I would have thought that they were variations done by the same person. All I am say is stylistically they are very similar.

I agree the textures are the same , but one is reverted... as far as "the Package" those are all the same textures just using different templates in photoshop or whatever (or even the appearance menu) to make them a bikini, shorts.. etc.

Uhh Chip... that doesnt look like the others... still very nice, but looks nothing like the other two

Huh. Well saying the textures are the same is a hefty accusation. I guess Robin Linden had the best advice after all.

-aimee (thinking about making a pair of blue jeans)

Ummmmm, NO!
The two pictures taken are side by side. How different can you get?
One is purple and has a white stripe down each side.
The lighting/shadows created by whatever program they used are DIFFERENT.

In real life catsuits made by different people look similar.

Catsuits are a cool idea. I think I will make one when I figure out photoshop. But mine will be bright pink. Going to accuse me too?

People can make similar items without 'ripping' off another person's idea. I have a copy of Chip's brownish catsuit too - but it doesn't mean I think Kyrah ripped Chip off.

Personally, I avoid people's shops who can't handle competition.

I think you guys are jumping with out anyone counting off to 3...
YES I think the textures looks the same, thats what happens when you use photo imagery, I am NOT accusing Mistress of stealing anyhing from anyone... they both found the same photo source and used it. thats all.

I didn't photosource it, I just took screenshots of Victoria 3 body glove in poser-- well I guess that's photosourcing, but It's photosourcing my own 'source' ...I hope the unrelated parties can accept that, I have nothing at all against kyrah. If she would like to see my textures as proof that I did not try to rip her off, I have absolutely nothing to hide.

They were not photosourced, they were rendered (both suits). The similarities come from the fact that both were rendered using the same tool (Poser).

I guess since Kyrah IS accusing Mistress of stealing, the tension can cause folks to become over sensitive. Saying "they look similar" feels like "mistress INDEED stole it" LOL!

Sorry to rope you into the drama Sensual. We just want to roll out all the facts before the besmirching begins on Mistress.

-aimee

Thats what I meant hun... I just wanted to make it clear I wasnt implying that you "TOOK" anything from her... but I do believe you guys used the same source... so therefore its free game.

Aimee it was indeed photosourced.. but that doesnt matter, and no I didnt mean to imply that anyone took anything from anyone lol o... its too early

OK I have a monkeywrench to throw into the works here...

What if, two designers, completely independently and without knowledge of the other, just happen to find the exact same freely available texture somewhere on the net, simply paste it as a texture on a short-sleeve tee shirt, happen to use the exact same slider values, and then each one sells it in a vendor? How would "DMCA" etc. handle something like THAT?

Where then, do we draw the line as to what is protected IP or not?

Arti

PS - I am just playing devil's advocate here, I know how much work you guys do in photoshop etc. and I definitely appreciate that kind of talent! I don't have the patience for that kind of thing myself, so more power to ya!

Wait, I thought Photosourcing was when you found a photo or texture or something preexisting from the internet, and used it for your clothes. And Rendering was when you used a tool to generate an image, one that didn't exist before (as is the case with the catsuits).

For example, if someone used Photoshops "Lens Flare" rendering tool on one of their signs. You can configure and manipulate that lens flare to your hearts content but the final effect in all cases looks similar. Compare this to finding a picture of a lens flare effect and pasting it onto your sign (which would be photosourcing).

Am I way off with my terminology?

-Aimee

Not really a monkey wrench. This happens all the time (chip mentioned this in one of his early posts). I think designers that directly lift photo sources from the web kinda know they do not have the moral high ground to demand others to cease and desist (myself included) "How dare you rip off my rip off!" is a difficult accusation to make.

This case is different since the textures in both suits were rendered. The chances of both designers placing the exact same poser settings and lighting are really remote. But if it DID happen, I can't think of any solution other than...

THE THUNDERDOME!!!
TWO MEN ENTER...
ONE COMES OUT!!!

-aimee

I like Kyrah a lot, she's a great designer-- that's the only reason I posted in the thread.

I've been in SL since May 2003-- and I've yet to hit 100 posts this one is just important to me, because I was publicly 'called out' so to speak, and my ethics are being questioned.

I only hope Kyrah and I can resolve this between us, like I said, I didnt photosource, I didnt use her textures, and I have nothing to hide.

This one is made by Mistress.. I am not sure how I got it... but it is my favorite catsuit!

lol wow! I havent seen that one in a while, that was the first thing i made in sl --well not the corset part, but the catsuit part
meow!

You know, I have a latex cat suit I bought back in June 2003 just after beta ended that Skeedalee Skidoo made that looks similar to Chip's in color, meaning it's a very very dark chocolate-y black-ish sort of shade. (I'd post a pic, but the forum gnomes have, for some reason, deemed me unworthy to post attached pics for some unknown sin I've committed, try as I might to appease them.) I remember Skee saying she made it from a Poser render, as well. So latex cat suits have been around in SL for a long time.

I bought several pairs of Mistress' leather pants way back when, as well. I loved the leather look, but wanted to make my own pair of leather pants. I did, and have sold many copies. They don't look much like Mistress' leather pants, except for the fact that they are shiny-ish leather... but I was originally inspired by another designer who made leather pants. I guess you could say I "copied" Mistress, but I think it's more accurate to say I was inspired by her creation, just as Mistress was inspired by Kyrah's creation.

That's the thing about art, fashion, architecture, and many other creative enterprises: much of it is interpretive of others' styles.

If someone looks to your SL creations for inspiration, I think the best thing you can do is feel flattered. It is hard not to feel competitive with other designers, but in the end, it's mostly futile to take that approach.